Good Ole Euthyphro Dilemma

[hubble9458]

Does God will something because it is good? Or is something good because God wills it?

Neither. God is good.

Ok.

Are properties like loving kindness, impartiality, generosity, etc good because God possesses them? Or does God possess them because they are good?

If they are good because God possesses them, what about God is good aside from having these virtues? If God did not possess them, would these properties count for anything or even be considered good? When we explain why someone is good we typically refer to their virtues. But what do we refer to in the case of God if we do not define his goodness by the virtues he possesses? If God is good without these virtues, what does his goodness consist of?

If God is good because he possesses these virtues, then he is subject to an independent standard of goodness.

Any advice? Thanks.

 

[Tree of Life]

Are properties like loving kindness, impartiality, generosity, etc good because God possesses them? Or does God possess them because they are good?

All of these attributes are shades of "good". These attributes are simply what it means to be good in different contexts, different situations, and from different perspectives. But in each instance we're still looking at the same thing.

 

[Tree of Life]

It may be helpful to remember that God is simple. He does not have parts. He cannot be dissected into his various attributes. Everything he does includes his whole personality. All of his acts are good, loving, just, merciful, powerful, wise, etc...

 

[ToddNotTodd]

All of his acts are good, loving, just, merciful, powerful, wise, etc...

According to...

 

[Tree of Life]

According to...

The OP appears to be inquiring into the internal consistency of Christian theism. So according to Christian theism, which is derived from the Bible.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

The OP appears to be inquiring into the internal consistency of Christian theism. So according to Christian theism, which is derived from the Bible.

And people believe the Bible because...?

 

[Tree of Life]

And people believe the Bible because...?

That would be a question for another thread. You can start a new thread by going to the appropriate sub-forum and clicking on the "New Thread" button at the top. Let me know if you hit a snag.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

That would be a question for another thread. You can start a new thread by going to the appropriate sub-forum and clicking on the "New Thread" button at the top. Let me know if you hit a snag.

Actually, the establishment of whether a god is good is completely germane to the OP.

 

[Tree of Life]

Actually, the establishment of whether a god is good is completely germane to the OP.

The OP assumes that God is good and believes this may create a logical inconsistency.

 

[jayem]

It may be helpful to remember that God is simple. He does not have parts. He cannot be dissected into his various attributes. Everything he does includes his whole personality. All of his acts are good, loving, just, merciful, powerful, wise, etc...

Other than having faith in the claims of the Bible and religious tradition, how do you know that God is good?

 

[Tree of Life]

Other than having faith in the claims of the Bible and religious tradition, how do you know that God is good?

Even though this question departs from the line set out by the OP...

How does one come to know that sugar is sweet?
How does one come to know that light illumines?
How does one come to know that wisdom is wise?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

The OP assumes that God is good and believes this may create a logical inconsistency.

There’s no reason to assume this.

 

[jayem]

Even though this question departs from the line set out by the OP...

How does one come to know that sugar is sweet?
How does one come to know that light illumines?

I'll focus on these two. Which can be confirmed empirically by direct observation. By what observable evidence can we conclude that God is good?

 

[Tree of Life]

There’s no reason to assume this.

Tell that to the OP. I believe he is assuming it for the sake of argument.

 

[Tree of Life]

By what observable evidence can we conclude that God is good?

I spent today above ground.

 

[muichimotsu]

Reducing goodness to existing due to an entity, even if it's supposedly eternal, seems to undermine it really being something we can approach, especially with "God" being ineffable in its fullness anyway. If goodness is described in terms of the property of an action or of its consequences, or even the moral nature of the person doing the acts.

If goodness is a property we can deduce reasonably, but is still abstract and intangible in the sense that we can't strictly pinpoint it to something that's mysterious by its very nature, then wouldn't it be better by comparison? Being able to discuss and approximate goodness, especially by dialectical methods, such as the notion of goodness being a contrast of evil (likely not having its own substance, merely a privation of good), allows us to better flourish and have a civil society rather than just invoking divine mandate theory in any form, which shuts down discussion to a shouting match of whose deity is superior or can be vindicated somehow.

 

[jayem]

I spent today above ground.

But the lives of 150,000 or so people in the world ended today. As happens every day. Some are children. Some have suffered from painful and debilitating diseases. Some are innocent victims of violence. You and I may have been spared this fate today. But that's not evidence that God is good.

 

[muichimotsu]

Unless God seems to care about people in a way that is not only vague, but also unknowable because it's only known by God and their plan.

 

[FireDragon76]

Other than having faith in the claims of the Bible and religious tradition, how do you know that God is good?

God is good to me.

I spent today above ground.

Exactly. Every day is a gift.

 

[Nithavela]

Any advice? Thanks.

Take this navelgazing nonsense to the apologetics board where it belongs.