Good and Evil.

[ElloDarwin]

Hello,

I would like to put forward a philosophical argument which deals with our perceptions of the ideas "Good" and "Evil".


I hope most would agree that in a universe devoid of any kind of life,the terms "Good" and "Evil" would be meaningless; it would be silly to suggest otherwise.

Just as absurd would be to suggest that in such a universe,these two states actually existed but were lying dormant,waiting for life to happen.

Therefore if one believes that God created the universe and all life in it,then one must also accept that such a god created the concepts of good and evil.

This being the case,both concepts would have been,according to this god, necessarilly arbitrary in nature,no one,being preferable to the other.
Therefore Gods decision as to how he should "respond"
to instances of one or the other,must have been a random choice.

Also,initially,there would have existed,no "appropriate response" to either state so again,a random respose would have to have been invented for each.

Its easy to see that the implications of all of this are far reaching to say the least!


Your comments on this matter would be most welcome,

Regards,

Ello

 

[nommo]

Good I call what is believed by me to be to my advantage, bad what is believed by me to be to my disadvantage.

Spinoza

 

[kevin36]

Arbitrary in nature? I wouldn't say so.

"Good" in it's simpliest definition, using the framework of there being a God, as you yourself put forth, is being in accordance with God's will. Evil would therefor be out of acordance with God's will. Simplified, but it'll work for now.

Situational ethics and morality abound in out culture, and they say that "what's good for me may not be good for you" and vice versa; this allows people to determine their own "good" and "evil" by what they consider to be beneficila of helpful, either to themselves or to others. I've heard many times where people determine what is right to do by how it benefits another, but that is subjective to what they feel would be beneficial, and without a full frame of knowledge they may very well, and ofter are, mistaken as to what is actually of benefit.

Being in accordance with God's will is being in accordance with love. The Bible says God IS love, and it goes to great length to describe how that love should opperate. It isn't always what most would consider kind, but there's a differance between being kind and showing kindness.

"Good", according to your example, would be acting with true, Godly love, and that isn't arbitrary.

God Bless!

 

[ElloDarwin]

Thank you for your comments nommo and kevin 36.

I must clarify and say that I am not actually looking for personal definitions of the terms "Good" and "Evil" here.

Regards,

Ello

 

[tapero]

Hello,

I would like to put forward a philosophical argument which deals with our perceptions of the ideas "Good" and "Evil".


I hope most would agree that in a universe devoid of any kind of life,the terms "Good" and "Evil" would be meaningless; it would be silly to suggest otherwise.

Just as absurd would be to suggest that in such a universe,these two states actually existed but were lying dormant,waiting for life to happen.

Therefore if one believes that God created the universe and all life in it,then one must also accept that such a god created the concepts of good and evil.

This being the case,both concepts would have been,according to this god, necessarilly arbitrary in nature,no one,being preferable to the other.
Therefore Gods decision as to how he should "respond"
to instances of one or the other,must have been a random choice.

Also,initially,there would have existed,no "appropriate response" to either state so again,a random respose Awould have to have been invented for each.

Its easy to see that the implications of all of this are far reaching to say the least!


Your comments on this matter would be most welcome,

Regards,

Ello

Hi,

God created man and angel good. He gave us/them free will. We/they sinned. evil entered the world, as sin did. All sin is evil.

God did not create evil or sin, nor is it within Himself.

He created creatures with free will.

side note due to other post; a non christian can be as moral and good as a christian and as loving as Chrisitan, but they of course do not love God..so need to put that out there.

Again, God did not create the concepts of evil or sin.

when man disobeyed God; adam and eve, God did respond, and not randomly, if I understand your using randomly proper.

He said, because of this: such and such..not random.

Dealt with situation.

random to me means grabbing straws from any zillions of probablilites.

same with angels falling, sinning against God.

sin brought evil in the world.

I think God knew that man/angel could fall since He made us free will creatures, and therefore did in fact have a plan for such a case; should it happen, or so it seems from scripture.

Some say God did know and does know what we do before we do it. I do not believe this.

But He has a pretty good idea i would think in knowing that my favorite color is blue, that i might chose the blue car over the red car.

Again, evil does not exist in God nor does sin. Sin is disobedience to God, which is also called evil.

So God can not be disobedient to Himself as He is without sin and perfect.

It's also written the all sin and fall short of the glory of God.

To do good, once must be obedient to God.

God commanded Adam to be good in his decree about the tree.. Either Adam explained that to Eve or God did in a conversaton not recorded in teh bible. Adam and eve disobeyed the good they were commanded to do.

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Doing good comes by our awareness of God.. for example, a Christian is highly aware that God is with them every second, where a non Christian may not have that awareness, most don't.

but to help us, God gave prophets, and law to help the Hebrews to be good.

They rejecteted God and the prophets, and did evil instead.

Jesus came to the Jews, they rejected Him as well.

Sin has now been forgiven, but one must believe in Christ for forgiveness of sins and for salvation.

What comes from God is truth, not concepts..but i may be twisting your words here. What God gives man is truth is what I'm saying.

blessings,
tapero

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

Hello,

I would like to put forward a philosophical argument which deals with our perceptions of the ideas "Good" and "Evil".


I hope most would agree that in a universe devoid of any kind of life,the terms "Good" and "Evil" would be meaningless; it would be silly to suggest otherwise.

Just as absurd would be to suggest that in such a universe,these two states actually existed but were lying dormant,waiting for life to happen.

Therefore if one believes that God created the universe and all life in it,then one must also accept that such a god created the concepts of good and evil.

This being the case,both concepts would have been,according to this god, necessarilly arbitrary in nature,no one,being preferable to the other.
Therefore Gods decision as to how he should "respond"
to instances of one or the other,must have been a random choice.

Also,initially,there would have existed,no "appropriate response" to either state so again,a random respose would have to have been invented for each.

Its easy to see that the implications of all of this are far reaching to say the least!


Your comments on this matter would be most welcome,

Regards,

Ello

They are based upon deterministic perspectives through epistomelogical processes.

 

[kevin36]

I must clarify and say that I am not actually looking for personal definitions of the terms "Good" and "Evil" here.

Okay...

You did say "...which deals with our perceptions of the ideas "Good" and "Evil"."

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant. Regardless, I tried to give as un-personal a view as possible, given the parameters which you set forth.

Maybe I wasn't as clear as I could've been either...

God Bless

 

[uberd00b]

Arbitrary in nature? I wouldn't say so.

"Good" in it's simpliest definition, using the framework of there being a God, as you yourself put forth, is being in accordance with God's will.

It's worth noting on this point that if good is simply whatever is in accordance with Gods will then this is an arbitrary standard.

Situational ethics and morality abound in out culture, and they say that "what's good for me may not be good for you" and vice versa;

Indeed the many differing understandings of morality and ethics around the world do point to a rather fluid nature.

this allows people to determine their own "good" and "evil" by what they consider to be beneficila of helpful, either to themselves or to others. I've heard many times where people determine what is right to do by how it benefits another, but that is subjective to what they feel would be beneficial, and without a full frame of knowledge they may very well, and ofter are, mistaken as to what is actually of benefit.

There is a consensual nature also to what is or is not acceptable within societies. Morality is determined by many factors. In the same sense that the price of a can of coke is neither absolute, nor subjective.

Being in accordance with God's will is being in accordance with love. The Bible says God IS love,

We need a better translation! That just appears to me to be an abuse of the English language. A statement more meaningful than "God is love" would be wonderful (after all you don't tell your partner "I God you" do you?).

and it goes to great length to describe how that love should opperate.

According to the authors ideas on morality.

"Good", according to your example, would be acting with true, Godly love, and that isn't arbitrary.

If it is just whatever God wills, then it is indeed arbitrary.

 

[ebia]

Hello,

I would like to put forward a philosophical argument which deals with our perceptions of the ideas "Good" and "Evil".


I hope most would agree that in a universe devoid of any kind of life,the terms "Good" and "Evil" would be meaningless; it would be silly to suggest otherwise.

Just as absurd would be to suggest that in such a universe,these two states actually existed but were lying dormant,waiting for life to happen.

Therefore if one believes that God created the universe and all life in it,then one must also accept that such a god created the concepts of good and evil.

In creating life with the ability to make choices, God created the potential for both good and evil.

This being the case,both concepts would have been,according to this god, necessarilly arbitrary in nature,no one,being preferable to the other.

How does this follow? Good is, by definition, the preferable choice.