going to hell for believing wrong

[BloodFire]

let me see..
God will send us to hell for believing in the 'wrong Jesus' as you say to me b/c im Mormon... will God send christians who dnt believe in the trinity to hell?

why would God send someone to hell who was earnestly seeking Him bt thought they found Him in religieon B instead of religion A? if they were seeking Him.. bt thought they found Him in another religion.. bt were wrong... bt they didnnt know any better..God will send the to hell?...........is that sth God wd do?!!!!!!??

 

[heron]

Hi, Bloodfire --
Remember that the conversations people have had over the past few weeks had very mixed opinions. Yes, there were people who made comments against your faith, but they did not represent the whole group.

We are not the ones who decide what happens to others at death. We are only trying to bring scriptural writings into the conversation, since the premise here is questions about Christianity.

You know the scriptures. Stand by what you hear God saying to you. Let Him be your source of information about Christianity and the afterlife.

 

[talitha]

let me see..
God will send us to hell for believing in the 'wrong Jesus' as you say to me b/c im Mormon... will God send christians who dnt believe in the trinity to hell?

why would God send someone to hell who was earnestly seeking Him bt thought they found Him in religieon B instead of religion A? if they were seeking Him.. bt thought they found Him in another religion.. bt were wrong... bt they didnnt know any better..God will send the to hell?...........is that sth God wd do?!!!!!!??

I understand your concern here. The important thing is that you allow the Lord to direct and correct your paths. There is a point at which it is okay to be simply seeking the truth. There is a point at which we make honest mistakes. Then there is a point at which the mistakes are shown to be mistakes, and at that point, the honestly seeking spirit will agree with the truth, even though there are perhaps emotional strings attached to the lie. I truly believe that this is where you are. But if you know the truth and reject it, you're cancelling out your spiritual search before you reach the goal.... Please don't do that!

blessings
tal

 

[JonathanP]

I have to be careful how I say this. It is only an opinion but I am certain others will agree. If somebody fully embraces the teachings of Mormonism and in particular those relating to the nature of Christ, then they will hold beliefs which would be opposed to orthodox Christianity. In saying that, in my view it seems likely that there are some people in Mormonism who may well be saved and enjoy a relationship with God. As an interesting example consider the case of Cornelius in Acts 10. I believe God blesses those who truly seek after Him.

I am not saying that it isn't important what you believe, and I would encourage Mormons to leave behind those beliefs which are opposed to orthodox Christianity. I do however, believe that to recognize our sinfulness and then to trust in what Jesus has done for us are the crucial elements in salvation. I hope I am not misunderstood in what I am saying.

Blessings

Jonathan

 

[prophecystudent]

Nothing I have read in my bible, or found in my studies, leads me to believe that the name on the building used to worship God affects in any way one's salvation.

I know little about Mormonism other than they profess to believe in Christ. My understanding tells me that the road to salvation leads thru Christ. Christ said that the only way to salvation was thru Him.

Nothing said about the "trinity".

I would seek Christ, study God's word, and if you believe that Christ is the Son of God, that He died on the cross to secure your salvation, was burried, rose again and then ascended to heaven, then you are saved.

To reiterate, the name on the building has nothing to do with salvation. Salvation comes only from your relationship with Christ.

Fred

 

[ozmum]

John 8:32 the truth shall make you free.

Obviously it is important to make sure that you have the truth or Jesus wouldn't say this.
Study the Bible to find the truth .
Jesus is the truth .
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
A religion that doesn't lead to Jesus ,is false and won't lead to life .
You have access to the Bible .Study it for yourself.
Are you open to personal Bible study ? Can I direct you to something that may help?

 

[dvd_holc]

We are judged by our deeds. And our deeds are evident to our thoughts and pursuits.

 

[heron]

Nothing I have read in my bible, or found in my studies, leads me to believe that the name on the building used to worship God affects in any way one's salvation.

I know little about Mormonism other than they profess to believe in Christ. My understanding tells me that the road to salvation leads thru Christ. Christ said that the only way to salvation was thru Him.

Nothing said about the "trinity".

I would seek Christ, study God's word, and if you believe that Christ is the Son of God, that He died on the cross to secure your salvation, was burried, rose again and then ascended to heaven, then you are saved.

To reiterate, the name on the building has nothing to do with salvation. Salvation comes only from your relationship with Christ.

Fred

Good way to put it.

The gospel was supposed to be good news, not bad.

 

[JonathanP]

I am glad people have responded to the OP in this way. The only thing I would add is that being born again and forgiven is only the beginning. We then need to go on to renew our minds (Rom. 12:2). It is in this that believing right is so important, as it will affect our character and relationship with God.

 

[Merlin]

No.
God will allow you to choose wrongly.

 

[kulenok]

I believe that it really all depends on your deeds and your relationship with God. If a person has never heard the gospel, but lived a good honest life, I can bet he is going to heaven. But if he has heard, but denied it, he is going down.

-Alex

 

[tcampen]

Hell has never really been part of the Jewish tradition, but rather a later development of Christianity. But the bottom line is that it is a theological concept that clearly has its roots in the New Testament, but also presents some philosophical problems to traditional concepts about God.

For example, God is often said to be perfectly just and merciful. Just means to dole out punishment that fits the crime. Eternal punishment for a finite crime of non-belief appears excessive on its face. Merciful mean to dole out less punishment than would otherwise be appropriate. While this might apply to those that are "saved," it fails to apply to the vast majority of the rest that have every lived or will live, including those that sincerely followed their heart and soul in another direction. This, too, appears both logically and intuitively contradictory to the concept of being perfectly merciful.

2,000 years of theology has produced some very sophisticated arguments to deal with these dilemmas, but really hasn't answered the question.

One may certainly accept certain theological concepts about hell based on faith and the mystery of God, but I wouldn't recommend trying to reconcile these problems rationally.

 

[heron]

Eternal punishment for a finite crime of non-belief appears excessive on its face.

Look at these hell verses closely, and most of them speak of an end of life, vs. eternal life. The punishment for the devil was eternal, but for people it was the second death. (End, no life after.)

 

[heron]

If you went to a pagan site, or an atheist site, or a hindu site, they would all be coming from their own standpoint... just expect that this isn't personal, it's just people telling what they believe and what they have heard.

Lu 7:50 But He said to the woman, your faith has saved you. Go in peace.
1 Timothy 2:1-8
I exhort that petitions, prayers, supplications, and thanksgivings be made on behalf of all men ... For this is good and acceptable before God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to a full knowledge of truth.

For God is one, also there is one Mediator of God and of men, the Man Christ Jesus, the One having given Himself a ransom on behalf of all, the testimony to be given in its own time, .... Therefore, I desire the men to pray in every place, lifting up holy hands without wrath and doubting.


1Jo 3:23
And this is His commandment, that we should believe the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, even as He gave command to us.

And the one keeping His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit which He gave to us.

Mr 16:16
The one believing and being baptized will be saved.

 

[talitha]

umm thanks! i dont try to put my emotion in the way! i hope im not doing that!! how do i not do it if i am!??

That's a good question. I pray that you will see the answer. So many times we stick with what we know, even when it has been shown to be in error. For some reason I keep thinking that this has happened with you, maybe because you ask some questions that seem to have a pleading quality to them, and then you come back and answer somewhat defensively.

how will i know truth when i see it if i dont know it already babes? i wont reject it! x

People are praying for you, and I feel sure that some part of you does know.

One etiquette note here - It is generally considered disrespectful and generally bad form for a young person to address an elder with terms such as "babes". It makes me feel like you are trying to be patronizing, but I am old enough that I don't feel demeaned, only sad for the way it makes you look.

bless you
tal

 

[heron]

if the punishment was not eternal except for the devil.. then when will the churches reiterate their stand on this? otherwise has the church not stagnated and cant progress any more?

I have never heard this in a church, the teaching that Hell is not eternal. Christians still hear from the pulpit that Hell is eternal punishment.

I have just found this through study of what the verses actually said, after reading a few Orthodox comments.... actually, I started digging after so many visitors like you asked the same question about the justice about Hell.

Before Christ, Jews believed that everyone rested under the earth in Sheol. Dust to dust. (Gen. 2:7; 3:19)

Hebrew lw)# - grave, hell, pit, Sheol

Job 7:9
As the cloud fades, it goes, so he who goes down to Sheol shall not come up.

The verses on rescue from Sheol pertained to rescue from facing death.

Jonah 2:2
And he said, I cried out to Jehovah from my distress. And He answered me. Out of the belly of Sheol I cried for help, and You heard my voice.

Ps 6:5
For there is no memory of You in death; who shall give thanks to You in Sheol?

http://www.studylight.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?number=T8005

There are hints of hope to get out, but usually the verses were tucked into pleas for earthly rescue.

(Psalm 49:15-20 He will fetch me from the hands of Sheol)

Closer to the AD/BC pivot, more writings referred to a division within Sheol for the bad and the righteous.
(Enoch ca. 160 BCE) .. the bosom of Abraham and Gehenna/Hades.

Even Jesus spoke of Sheol, in his story of Lazarus. A rich man had oppressed a poor man, and they ended up in different underground places.

But Jesus shook up the teachings by saying that God was now promising eternal life with Him.

From the viewpoint of the Jews, Jesus' talk of salvation was not about Hell vs. Heaven. It was about nothingness vs. eternal life.

Do a search on...

• eternal life
• hell
• heaven (OT usually refers to sky)
• salvation (NT)
• saved (NT)
• second death
• Gehenna (a landfill near Jerusalem where humans were sacrificed to Molech)

...while considering the possibility that we have been taught with loose assumptions.​

http://www.studylight.org/isb/bible.cgi?query=second+death&section=0&it=nas&oq=ps%252049%3A15&ot=bhs&nt=na&new=1&nb=ps&ng=49&ncc=49

We contemporary Christians didn't grow up thinking about our finality in the dirt -- even atheists expect the possibility of immediate heaven. But heaven wasn't part of the discussion before.

Jesus offered eternal life to those who believed. What amazing good news, that not only were are sins washed away, but we were promised favor with God and sonship in His kingdom!

That was news then.

One of Jesus' last quotes, was an offer to a thief that "Today you will be with me in Paradise." Lu 23:43

After reading centuries-worth of writings that the afterlife was under the ground, the religious leaders watched Jesus invite a non-religious person to be the first to come with Him to heaven!

Luke 13:30
And, behold, there are last ones who will be first, and there are first ones who will be last.

Imagine what it meant for Jesus to have returned from the dead, to have overcome Sheol! He showed that His words were true... His promises of eternal life were not empty philosophical chatter.

​

There are several NT references to the second death... mostly in Revelation. The body dies first, then the soul. Those who overcame by the blood of the Lamb were able to avoid the second death.
​

http://www.studylight.org/isb/bible...ction=0&it=nas&oq=paradise&ot=bhs&nt=na&new=1

We tend to skim over the verses about Hell and Heaven, because we think we have it all down pat. I am very recently realizing this information, and still weighing what I find; it is not a teaching from feel-good books or my denomination.

It is also something that I might regret posting! It's an example of how we need to dig for God's truth ourselves, and not rely on one denomination or another to save us.

So don't expect to hear it from evangelists, or most Christians... we are so used to knowing what we know. It's a possibility that's worth exploring, in order to clarify parts of your question.

​

 

[tapero]

let me see..
God will send us to hell for believing in the 'wrong Jesus' as you say to me b/c im Mormon... will God send christians who dnt believe in the trinity to hell?

why would God send someone to hell who was earnestly seeking Him bt thought they found Him in religieon B instead of religion A? if they were seeking Him.. bt thought they found Him in another religion.. bt were wrong... bt they didnnt know any better..God will send the to hell?...........is that sth God wd do?!!!!!!??

Hi, good question and I don't know if can answer.

On the first bit, does God condemn someone to hell for not believing in the trinity. Some Christians do not believe that the Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of the trinity. There is nothing in the NT that says one must believe so. They are called non Nicene agreeing Christians.

The Nicene creed can be found here:

http://www.christianforums.com/rules

Most people that aren't believers yet believe in a god, believe that their goodness and good works will save them. They strive to do good things, and think by those things they will be saved.

So we go back to the old testament and find that isn't so. It has always been faith in God that saves a person.

Here's a verse from the OT:

The LORD said to Moses, "How long will these people treat me with contempt? How long will they refuse to believe in me, in spite of all the miraculous signs I have performed among them?

In the NT we have references to those who believed in God. I'll just show one of them:

7By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.

This is referring to an OT person, who knew God. Make good note that the righteousness came only by faith, not what they did. Even though, Noah did build the Ark. It is still only by faith in God, for he could have refused to build the ark and still have faith in God.

He could've doubted that God would have come pass as what did indeed come to pass.

Any Christian today can also refuse to do something for the Lord, and the Lord will raise up another to do the task.

If we believe in God, it is a natural outworking to do good works; in other words we learn to love in different ways from before we believed in God, we love with the love of Christ which results in good works. So, it is natural when we believe in God to become a certain way, some sooner, some later, some perhaps little change, yet still saved by faith in God. So, because Noah believed and he was full of faith and trust he did that good work of preaching and building the ark, all by faith.

Christ in the NT says:

Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."

But Abraham lived during the OT?? (old testament times before Christ was born of a virgin.)

Christ was manifested in the OT at times. He always was and always will be.

He appeared to Abraham and Moses in the OT.

then in the nt it continues:

The Jews said He wasn’t even “fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Christ answeres “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?"

From the Old Testament God says His name is I Am as well.

14 God said to Moses, "I am who I am . [a] This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' " 15 God also said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites, 'The LORD, [b] the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.' This is my name forever,

Since the Father and Son are one, if one believes in God in truth, (not saying you don't) they will know Jesus.

So, in the Old Testament times, people came to faith in God through faith, and they also did good works, were commanded to obey the law, and do certain other things. We all know that we sin, and those saints in the OT sinned as well.

God reveals things throughout the bible although in the OT Jesus is not revealed but to few, (however we see many references to Him in prophecy books) and the Hebrews were not commanded to believe in Jesus, as He was yet to be born even though He has always existed and was never created.

Then the NT:

Jesus comes, He is Messiah and Savior and teaches that He and the Father are One.

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know[a] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

So if we know God the Father (believe), we know Jesus,(believe) even though it says above, if we know Jesus than we know God the father.

For they are One.

He dies for our sins and is resurrected.

Though disciples/apostles told to preach the gospel in the gospel books, it isn't till the Holy Spirit comes in the book of Acts and believers were filled with the Holy Spirit; who empowers, teaches, reminds, convicts and is also a seal guaranteeing our redemption and we are indwelled with the Holy Spirit (God.)

This is the church period, where many miracles are performed but the main point is the gospel is preached:

Among other things written it says:

That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption (salvation) of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.

I know I really dragged this out, but the point to my whole post is, that if someone knows God, they know Jesus, for there is no other god.

But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul

From this verse I know that many are seeking Him and will find Him if they seek Him with all their heart and soul.

you asked above:

if they were seeking Him.. bt thought they found Him in another religion.. bt were wrong... bt they didnnt know any better..God will send the to hell?.

Yes

Even if someone is sincerely worshipping a god, and doing good works, they will not be saved.

However, they may come to know Him.

Just a reminder when you think of others in regards to your question quoted above, that all other religions, to my knowledge depend on their goodness and works and not on God to save them.

Since we are all sinners, we can never be good enough to merit salvation. Only by Christ can we be made righteous in His site, and saved. The penalty for sin is death. Life comes through Christ.

Even the most moral non believer, faithful husband, church goer, wife lover, provider, helps the needy, poor, etc., if he doens't know Christ he will not be saved.

I believe that the Holy Spirit calls men every day to come to know Christ, and that the Holy Spirit does not give up, and the man has till his dying day to know Christ. However, we don't know when we'll die.

The only unforgivable sin is the sin of unbelief.

God bless,
tapero

 

[Adoniram]

BloodFire-

I see that you are seeking to place your faith in the true Jesus Christ, and that is very good. But, I must caution you about some things the Mormon church teaches about Jesus that do not ring true to the Gospel declared in the Bible. Indeed, they do refer to Jesus as "Son of God," but their teaching is that Jesus is "a" Son of God rather than "the." The difference is monumental.

First, Mormon doctrine teaches that Jesus was a created being, in essence, the brother of Lucifer. Doctrine and Covenants 93:21-23 teaches that "Christ, the Firstborn, was the mightiest of all the spirit children." Mormon teachers expound upon this saying that "As for the devil and his fellow spirits, they are brothers to man and also to Jesus and sons and daughters to God in the same sense that we are." (J. H. Evans, An American Prophet, 1933, p. 241) This is contrary to what the Bible teaches: that Jesus Christ has always existed, was with God, and was God (John 1:1-2).

Second, Mormon doctrine teaches that Jesus had to earn his own salvation. "He came to earth to work out his own salvation...After His resurrection, He gained all power in Heaven." (Bruce McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p. 238) McConkie also teaches that "by obedience and devotion to the truth, He [Jesus] attained that pinnacle of intelligence which ranked Him as a God." (Mormon Doctrine, p. 129) The Bible teaches that Jesus was sinless, therefore having no need to "work out his own salvation," and that he gave his life as a sacrifice for us, the innocent for the guilty. (2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Pet. 1:19)

Third, Mormon doctrine teaches that Christ is not unique, but only one of many spirit beings that have attained a divine status that men themselves will one day attain. It teaches that Jesus' original origin was in the sexual union of male and female earth gods, and that his physical incarnation was the result of a physical union between God and Mary. "Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man and that Man was God." (Joseph F. Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 18) "Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers." (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 547) This, again, is contrary to the teaching of the Bible, where we see that Jesus has always been, is the unique Son of God (there is no other, and it has a different meaning than by being saved we become the children of God), and that his incarnation was the result a miraculous conception in Mary, brought about by the Holy Spirit.

There are some in the Mormon church that teach also that Jesus was a polygamist. Orson Pratt claimed it was Jesus that was married at the wedding at Cana, that Mary and Martha were also his wives, and that he had children. (Orson Pratt, The Seer, Nov. 1853, vol. 1, no. 11, p. 172) There is no support for any of this in the Bible.

So here is the picture of Jesus that the Mormon church presents: that he was a sexually created spirit being, a brother of Lucifer, that he had to earn his own salvation and godhood, and that he was probably a polygamist to boot. Clearly not who the Bible teaches Christ to be.

If you delve into the doctrines of the Mormon church, you will find all kinds of things that are contrary to Biblical teaching, and not just about Jesus. Your average, everyday Mormon is not even aware of most of these things, as I have found out in conversations with some that I know personally, and others who have come to my door witnessing.

BloodFire, I can't say that there are no "Christians" in the Mormon church, neither can I say that Mormons are not good people. They are some of the kindest and most gracious people I know. But since it is your eternal soul that is at stake, you want to be sure that you are not led astray by unBiblical teaching, which Mormon doctrine is full of. If you are truly seeking the Jesus of the Bible, I would lovingly suggest that you come out of the Mormon church and seek a church that teaches true Biblical doctrine.

If you wish to look into some of the ways Mormonism differs from mainstream Christianity, here are some sources:
http://contenderministries.org/mormonism/comparison.php
http://www.carm.org/lds/compare.htm
http://www.irr.org/MIT/Is-Mormonism-Christian.html
http://www.spiritrestoration.org/Ch...mparing_Christianity_with_sects_and_cults.htm
http://www.perfectrighteousness.com/Information.htm

 

[Catherineanne]

let me see..
God will send us to hell for believing in the 'wrong Jesus' as you say to me b/c im Mormon... will God send christians who dnt believe in the trinity to hell?

why would God send someone to hell who was earnestly seeking Him bt thought they found Him in religieon B instead of religion A? if they were seeking Him.. bt thought they found Him in another religion.. bt were wrong... bt they didnnt know any better..God will send the to hell?...........is that sth God wd do?!!!!!!??

No, God will not send anyone to hell for getting their theology muddled up. If this were a criteria for hell, then we are all going there.

However, there is muddled and there is really muddled, and much of the teachings of Mormon have very little in common with anything in the Bible, or in the teachings of the mainstream Christian churches.

This is not to say that Mormons cannot be Christians, because I am certain they can, if only because of the love that they show to their brothers and sisters in faith. This love is one of the signs that Christ says is the identifier of a Christian, and it is a brave Christian who can say that, with such examples, these people are not included in salvation.

But Mormonism as a whole is not a part of mainstream Christianity. Many of its teachings are directly counter to what is found in Christ and in the Bible, and are incompatible with Christian beliefs.

If orthodox belief is the main requirement, therefore, Mormonism is out (and probably many other denominations too, but none of us really knows which). If Christian love, one for another is the main requirement, then many individual Mormons are in.

And Paul teaches us that love is primary.

 

[heron]

BloodFire, I can't say that there are no "Christians" in the Mormon church, neither can I say that Mormons are not good people. They are some of the kindest and most gracious people I know.

Mainstream Christians believe that the way to stay on track with theology, is to return to the Bible for fact-checking. If a denomination or church is starting to teach new practices or theories, these are checked against OT and NT.

Many times in the OT, the Israelites -- God's people -- were corrected for adding to what God gave them. Solomon added foreign wives, priests in Ezekiel added idols in the temple, the Exodus survivors added a golden calf. God continually worked with His people to bring them back.

During most of these times, they still worshiped God, and they still were on the roll calls as God's chosen people.

It's true that many people today add to the written Word with prophecy and visions and miracles, as well as reading books that aren't the Bible. But the concern is that what was added changed some of the basic principles.

You are a good person with good intentions and faith in the Living God. But if you ask us what we believe about God's conditions for salvation, then we will tell you what God told people throughout history, His documented conditions for salvation.

As others said above, it's up to the individual to ensure they are saved.

When the Israelites added idols or added onto Moses' Law, which was a continual issue, it was a reflection that they were afraid God was not enough to deliver them. They felt they needed to appeal to more sources, or make up stricter rules, more complex conditions... when God always conveyed that His grace was sufficient and His power was greatest in our weakness.