Gods

[delight1]

What do you think of this theory that Abraham and Moses worshiped different Gods?

 

[talitha]

Preposterous

 

[polygone]

God is unique. The methods people use to worship are different. These methods are what we call religions.

 

[Tenka]

It seems to me there are currently about 2 billion different Gods called Yahweh all with an astonishingly small number of worshippers, 1 each.

Maybe Moses and Abraham had the same problem.

 

[Arthra]

My theory:

Abraham was known as an early "monotheist" and I think this belief was then passed down to Jethro of Median as well to Moses.

In ancient Egyptian religion there was also a monotheistic belief noted by Wallace Budge that was later corrupted by polytheism. Moses was also aware of this I believe and as He was learned in the wisdom of Egypt and the School of Heliopolis where He was initiated.

I believe Pharoah Ikhnaton also sought to revive this ancient Egyptian monotheism.

- Art

 

[AlexandraB]

...Who cares? You can't ask them, it's all theory anyway, so why waste time trying to figure it out?

Figure out instead why for example, Catholics celebrate the Assumption of the Virgin Mary because they were simply instructed to do so by the pope, after declaring it a true and miraculous fact, when the first mention of 'Angels transporting Mary to Heaven' appeared nearly 700 years after her actual death? If indeed, she existed at all.....
Now that's ridiculous.....!!

 

[AlexandraB]

"What became of the Virgin Mary after the Crucifixion is one of the greatest mysteries of the Bible. Although it appears nowhere in the Bible, the belief in the Assumption - Mary's bodily ascension into heaven - is accepted by many Christians as historical fact. Some, however, believe that Mary died naturally and was buried in a tomb in Jerusalem's Valley of Jehosaphat. Others say that her final resting place was in the Roman ruins of Ephesus in Asia Minor.

In 1950 Giovanni Benedetti, an archaeologist attached to the Vatican museum, found a fourth-century manuscript indicating that Mary had been smuggled out of Palestine to an island off the west coast of Britain. According to Benedetti's findings, England's first Bishop, St. Augustine, discovered Mary's tomb there in A.D. 597. The reigning pope, Gregory the Great, forbade St. Augustine to speak of this, initiating a conspiracy of silence that lasted 1,400 years. Similarly, as Benedetti was about to publish his findings, he was instructed by the Vatican to discontinue his research. Soon after, the Roman Catholic Church declared the Assumption dogma."


Extract from "The Virgin Mary Conspiracy" Graham phillips

talk about manipulating the facts - !!

 

[Balbatish]

Kinda outta left feild there eh Alexandra?

 

[AlexandraB]

Well, I figure if we're going to discuss something, let's make it a concrete discussion, not one based entirely on hypothesis, and total lack of info.... sorry....!

 

[graysparrow]

It is not even sure if Abraham and Moses were historical figures or not.

 

[Merlin]

What if Moses and Abraham were one and the same person?
Seems just as valid.

 

[delight1]

The theory is based on this.The God of Abraham could assume human shape,as told in bible.But God of moses was the formless monotheistic God of today.Abraham god is called El Shaddai and moses Yahweh.This is based on J version of Pentateuch.and genesis 22:42 and 49:24 shows that god of Abraham,fear of Issac and mighty one of Jacob were three separate gods.

 

[talitha]

The God Who spoke to Moses identifying Himself as "I Am Who I Am" (which in Hebrew is the origin of the name "Yahweh") first said to Moses, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." What you are suggesting is that whatever spirit spoke to Moses was a lying spirit. This suggestion is, in Judeo-Chrisitan terms, is blasphemy, not just preposterous as I diplomatically said above. I realize this is the "NonChristian Religion" section of CF - I just wanted less Biblically aware Jews and Christians to not fall for the trap you laid.

blessings in Jesus's Matchless Name
tal

 

[lilithrising]

What do you think of this theory that Abraham and Moses worshiped different Gods?

Abraham came from the land of Ur of the Chaldees. Then he and Sarah moved to Harran. These are the two cites known to be the major centers of the worship of Nanna SIn, the Mesopotamian moon god.

Moses is from Egypt. His god could be any of the major dieties, from his theology it appears to be a patriarchal solar god demanding absolute obedience, mabie Amon-Ra

El is the ancient Canaanite bull god pre-existing Israel
YHVH appears to be a later diety brought by travelers to the area.
Abraham nor Moses knew these gods.
Melchikezedic was most probably a priest/king of El.

lilithrising

 

[Abbadon]

The theory is based on this.The God of Abraham could assume human shape,as told in bible.But God of moses was the formless monotheistic God of today.Abraham god is called El Shaddai and moses Yahweh.This is based on J version of Pentateuch.and genesis 22:42 and 49:24 shows that god of Abraham,fear of Issac and mighty one of Jacob were three separate gods.

Perhaps it was the same God, just different understandings?

Names don't mean anything, YHWH, Allah, Kami-Sama, Gott, Deus, and plenty more are just human words describing the ultimate one God.

 

[talitha]

Perhaps it was the same God, just different understandings?

Names don't mean anything, YHWH, Allah, Kami-Sama, Gott, Deus, and plenty more are just human words describing the ultimate one God.

Not.

 

[Abbadon]

Not.

Not "Not."

Here's why:

YHWH- the first name used to describe the God of the Jews, that Christians adopted, granted with new beliefs about certain aspects of that God.

Allah- just the Arabic word for "God", whenever a Judeo-Christian Bible is translated into Arabic, that's the word used wherever ours uses "God". It was used before Islam came around to describe a pagan moon god, but Christos (Greek for "Annointed") was used as an epithet for pagan gods before it somehow became the legal last name of Jesus (What? Were Joseph and Mary "Josoph and Mary Christ?").

Kami-Sama- just the Japanese word for "God", whenever a Judeo-Christian Bible's translated into Japanese, that's the word used wherever ours uses "God".

Gott- German word of "God", where we got the word "God" from.

Deus- Latin word for "God", where the French get "Dieu" from, where the Spanish get "Dios", and so on. Again, Bibles in these languages uses that word where we use "God".

Also, there's that Shakespeare bit about roses and names...

Got any evidence or arguements that it's "Not."?

 

[AlexandraB]

Got any evidence or arguements that it's "Not."?

I think that should now be spelled 'Knot' because you've quite craftily tied her up in one....!!

 

[Southland]

delight1:

What do you think of this theory that Abraham and Moses worshiped different Gods?

Quite silly because when Moses asks God: When I go to the Israelites and say to them, "The God of your ancestors sent me to you," they will ask me, "What is His name?" So what can I tell them? (Exodus 3:13).

God replies:

I, the LORD, the God of their [i.e. the Israelites] ancestors, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. (Exodus 3:15).

Obviously, the God who is talking to Moses is the same God as the one who made the covenant with Abraham. Futher more, it is only logical that the same God who made the promise that Isaac's descendants would inherit the promised land and the covenant between them and God (Genesis 17:19) would lead the Israelites (descendants of Isaac) into the promised land after they had escaped from Egypt.

That said, the Muslim god, Allah, and the Israelite God (same as the Christian God), YHVH (Yahweh), are two different entities though.

The theory is based on this.The God of Abraham could assume human shape,as told in bible.But God of moses was the formless monotheistic God of today.Abraham god is called El Shaddai and moses Yahweh.This is based on J version of Pentateuch.and genesis 22:42 and 49:24 shows that god of Abraham,fear of Issac and mighty one of Jacob were three separate gods.

No it doesn't. I couldn't find Genesis 22:42, are you sure you have the right Scriptural reference? As for Genesis 49:24, Joseph's words actually suggest the total opposite - that they are all the same:

He said to his brothers, "I am about to die, but God will certainly take care of you and lead you out of this land to the land He solemnly promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob." (Gensis 49:24).

The textual reference to God is singular implying that He is the same one for Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Also, God appeared in human form to Moses in Exodus 33:18-23,

Then Moses requested, "Please, let me see the dazzling light of your presence." The LORD answered, "I will make all my splendor pass before you and in your presence I will pronounce my sacred name. I am the LORD, and I show compassion and pity on those i choose. I will not let you see my face, because no one can see me and stay alive, but here is a place beside me where you can stand on a rock. When the dazzling light of my presence passes by, I will put you in an opening in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. Then I will take my hand away, and you will see my back but not my face." (Exodus 33:18-23).

I can't even begin to comprehend the glory that God must have when you read that.

Interesting thread though.

Bye for now,
Southland.

 

[talitha]

touche. But I'm not in a knot - I just reacted too quickly, that's all. I'm so used to people insisting that the "Allah" of Islam is the same entity as my God - which he isn't - that I had a lil knee-jerk reaction there.

blessings in Jesus's name
tal