I guess I didn't interpret your response accurately, I understand what you are saying here though. I still don't think it makes sense given the time line of Genesis 1-3. God created everything perfectly, saw it was good, ??? period of ??? years, and then we're given the option to choose to love him or not.
Why not? That is what is recorded. The Choice was given to man when He place the tree of knowledge with in our reach. We were told the tree was placed in the garden before man was.This means the "choice" we were to eventually make was always apart of the plan.
While I've never experienced a world without evil, I can imagine what one might be like and I will tell you I'd choose that over this in a heartbeat.
Good! then simply accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior and you will know an existence without sin and the pain it brings.
If I had a choice between living on the current Earth, or living on a perfect planet with no disease, natural disaster, or mental disparity...it's a no-brainier.
This is what is offered by God through Christ after this life is over.
I have no problem not following Satan if I'm granted a perfect world to live in.
When man failed in the garden the earth defaulted to Satan. In a sense this is the best He/Satan can offer you and to this point all you have done is complain and blame God. If following Satan is your thing, just know you will get more of the same.
OK, so God saw that what he made was acceptable. Then he lets Satan into the picture, knowing that Satan would corrupt the entire world. I don't see the point.
Satan represents choice. He is the other end of what God offers. One can not have a true choice without options. Satan is option "B"
If you are using the bible to condemn God, you must also use and accept it when it vindicates Him. Because the same bible that describes the original choice you are so ruffled over, tells us that what we are choosing is an eternity with God with out sin. Learn to look at everything as a whole, and do not just nit pick over what what fuels your own sense of righteousness.
Some plan. God knew that Plan B would fail miserably, yet he pressed on with it.
Big picture here is that God wanted us to live in perfect harmony, but knew a sentient being would need to explore all options. This life facilitates that exploration, so when we are presented with our eternal lives we will be able to live in the assurance that we have chosen the best course of action.
So you don't have any definition of free will in the Bible, okay.
Not what I said. I said YOUR definition of free will is Not in the bible. And I also point out that you are in complete agreement with the biblical understanding of that term via your own definitions. It's just you have spoken where the bible is silent, when you try and add your freedom of thought doctrine.
Again, the fall of man demonstrates one thing that can result from our free will, not everything.
Then again point to the scripture where the definition of "Free will" is expanded beyond the ability to sin. If you can not then know the definition of "free will" as being the ability to sin begins and ends with the authority written in scripture. More over in the account of the Fall of Man.
Free will is not only the ability to commit sin, it's the ability to make any choice you want to make.
Again if you are going to teach this "doctrine" you must show us scriptural proof of this extension or addition of the definition of freewill. Which mean you will need to bring Book chapter and verse to this discussion.
Sinning is a personal choice, so you could say "Free will is the ability to commit a personal choice", and it would still be accurate.
Not from a biblical stand point. if you believe you can say this, then please Give me book chapter and verse that opens "freewill" to all personal choice.
Therefore, freedom of personal choice is free will, and God could create that without needing evil.
Either you can prove this concept biblically or you can not. Know I need to see book chapter and verse to verify this as a scriptural teaching or we will have to dismiss this concept as just another point in secular philosophy.
Book, Chapter, And verse please!
I've already said that the Bible doesn't directly talk about free will. It does mention the choice we have to either follow God or not follow him, but that does not represent the entirety of free will.
Then show me with book chapter and verse.
I am saying free will is not just the ability to sin. I can't prove a negative.
This is an easy fix. Then show me where it is anything other than the ability to sin... Show me where anyone anywhere defines a personal choice as "free will." I'm not asking you to prove a negative here. I am asking you to represent your affirmation that free will is indeed a system of personal choice by providing me with book Chapter and verse.
If you cannot then concede the point the your version of "free will" is not scripturally backed.
No, as I would be full and have no physical need or mental desire for more food.
So if you were Satisfied then I could not tempt you with food?
No, as my thirst would be quenched.
So if your thirst had been quenched I could not tempt you with more water?
No, if it is the house of my dreams then I have no reason to want to live outside of my dream house.
Then you mean to say, if you had all that you wanted then I could not TEMPT you with something that you did not want?
This is why I can say that Satan's efforts would fall on deaf ears if Eve was completely satisfied with what God gave her. She was tempted and fell into temptation because she want more, She wanted what God had... This was the original sin/choice.
Eve was the first woman to ever exist, and she was tricked by the devil via deception.
Again if you had the house of your dreams could i "trick" you into living into something you did not want?
That's like telling a child "Don't eat candy, it will make you sick" and then having an uncle say "It's okay kid, the candy tastes great and will make you super strong! Trust me, you're fine eating it." Obviously the child will go for the candy, not because they "desire more", but because they are a child. It's very easy to deceive children and take advantage of their undeveloped psyche.
You are assuming something not written in scripture. As I have already pointed out Adam and Eve could have been in the Garden for quite a while, and she may not have been the babe in the woods you believe her to be. Which invalidates your assumption.
What scientists do you follow? Homo sapiens (man) have only been around for 200,000 years max.
.. but the earth was around for much much much much longer right? If creation only took six days to complete and our scientist say the earth is a 400 million years old then if you use simple logic and combine the two accounts, it means that Adam and eve were in the garden for alot longer than
man has been around.
If Adam and Eve were living on Earth for millions of years, my God how stupid are they?
If you and your husband (not your fellow man) were placed or confined a 2 or 3 thousand square mile plot of land for an indefinite amount of time would you have unlocked all the secrets of the universe? (Before your pride allows you to answer, allow me) No you could not. At best you knowledge would be limited to the region you live in. As witnessed by the different cultures that currently populate the world today.
Even if Adam and eve knew all that "we" do. how do you suppose they transfer all of the knowledge they gain over what could be a half a billion years to their children and their children's children?? You are over looking the infrastructure that allows the seamless transition of knowledge that we (apparently) don't even know that is there. This is something two people would not be able to do on their own. What they "knew" was lost.
They couldn't develop round Earth theory or ANY form of science? Look what we've done in the past 100 years.
Again "we" as a collective and not as two individuals. Even now if it were all taken back with everything we had now, to two people and humanity had to start over how long do you think before all that "we" have amassed is lost again, and we return to the stone age?
That's all irrelevant anyways. As literally as we're taking Genesis, the Earth is only a few thousand years old OR God severely distorted our laws of physics and then gave us tons of false evidence that the Universe is in fact billions of years old.
It appears you completely misunderstand my explanation. Here is the simplified version:
The genesis account happened just as recorded, but it took place when our scientists think it did 400,000,000+ years ago. Remember Adam and eve were placed in a garden and lived their alone with God for all of that time till one day eve got bored, or want more, or whatever happened to make Satan's offer look tempting. She took it, and convinced Adam to do the same thus picking the story back up in genesis at the fall of man. From that point we can discern the fall happened about 6000 years ago. This does not mean the earth is that old.