God's intention?

The problem with the question is that it assumes that "evil" is a "thing" that can exist.

Evil is an attitude of the heart.

It is contrary to God's character. So, no, God never intended for there to be evil in the heart of mankind.

Soooo...your position is that evil doesn't exist?

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What were my exact words?

If God, the supreme Ruler of all creation, He who spoke into existance that which was not simply by the power of His undeniable will, intended for there to be no evil in the heart of man, how did evil come to inhabit man's heart?

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You wanted my opinion, so I gave it to you. Evil is contrary to God's character. A holy God cannot wish evil.

What was your "follow up" question? You asked me three loaded questions.

An "attitude of the heart" isn't a "thing?"

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Soooo...your position is that evil doesn't exist?

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If God, the supreme Ruler of all creation, He who spoke into existance that which was not simply by the power of His undeniable will, intended for there to be no evil in the heart of man, how did evil come to inhabit man's heart?

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My short answer to this question is that evil inhabits a man's heart through man's will.

Reformationist said:

I am currently participating in a different thread in which one participant stated that "God never intended evil to exist." I'm curious if anyone agrees with that.

If so, please explain your position.

Thanks,
God bless

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Surely God intended for evil to be made manifest, otherwise it wouldn't exist. Furthermore, God couldn't devise a plan more worthy of Himself than that which is now in process.

In Christ,
Tracey

I believe that matter was created good but drawn into sin and corruption because of man, who was established initially as the ruler of the material world. Even though the creation "lieth in evil" and corruption, yet it is God's creation and therefore good; only through man's will in using creation evilly can sin be joined to creation.

I believe that God created neither death nor suffering nor evil. Evil has no hypostasis or existence as such. Evil is the absence of good; death is the absence of life. Evil is the alienation of the created being who has estranged himself from God; it is the degeneration of an essence that was created good. The sinner dies, not because God slays him in punishment so that He might revenge Himself on him—for man cannot offend God, nor does God experience any satisfaction at the death of a man—the sinner dies because he has alienated himself from the Source of Life. God is not responsible for evil, nor is He its cause. Neither is God blameworthy because He created man's nature with the possibility of alienating itself. If He had created human nature without free will, by this imposed condition He would have rendered the created intelligent being purely passive in nature; the creature would simply submit, not having the possibility of doing otherwise, since it would not be free. However, God wished that, after a fashion, we too should be His co-workers in His creation and be responsible for our own eternal destiny. God knows in His infinite wisdom how to transform the causes of evil into that which is profitable for man's salvation. Thus God uses the consequences of evil so as to make roses bloom forth from the thorns, although He never desired the thorns, nor did He create them in order to use them as instruments. He permitted these things to exist out of respect for our freedom. Thus God permits trials and sufferings without having created them.

Not even a sparrow falls to the ground apart from the will of God.

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Matthew 10:29 says, "Aren't two sparrows sold for only a penny? But your Father knows when any one of them falls to the ground."

Knowing and willing are two different things.

I believe that man "works" for his salvation. Salvation is not imposed upon him in spite of himself as Augustine of Hippo's and John Calvin's doctrine of predestination would have it, nor is it obtained solely by the endeavors of human will, as Pelagius taught. Salvation is synergetic; that is, man co-operates in the work of his salvation. God does not take upon Himself the role that belongs to man; likewise, man can attain nothing by his own efforts alone, neither by his virtue, nor by observing the commandments, nor by a good disposition. None of these things have any value for salvation except in the context of Divine Grace, for salvation cannot be purchased. Man's labors and the keeping of the commandments only demonstrate his will and resolve to be with God, his desire and love for God. Man cannot accomplish his part of co-operation in his salvation by his own power, however small this part may be, and he must entreat God to grant him the strength and grace necessary to accomplish it. If he perceives that he does not even wish his own salvation, he must ask to receive this desire from God "Who gives to all men and disregards none." For this reason, without despising man's role, we say that we receive "grace for grace" (John 1:16) and that to approach and enter the Church is according to the Fathers, "the grace given before grace," since in reality all is grace. This is the true meaning of the words of the Holy Fathers, "although it be a question of grace, yet grace is granted only to those who are worthy of it" indicating by the word "worthy" the exercise of our freedom of will to ask all things from God.
I believe that man is natural virtue—whatever its degree—cannot save a man and bring him to eternal life. The Scriptures teach: "All our righteousness is like unto a menstrual rag" (Isaiah 64:6). The fulfillment of the works of the Law does not permit us to demand or to merit something from God. Not only do we have no merits or supererogatory works, but Jesus Christ enjoins us that when we have fulfilled all the works of the Law, we should esteem ourselves as nothing but "unprofitable servants" (Luke 17:10). Without Jesus Christ, a man's personal virtue, his repute, his personal value, his work, his talents and his faculties matter but little. They matter only insofar as they test his devotion and faith in God. Our faith in Jesus Christ is not an abstraction but rather a communion with Him. This communion fills us with the power of the Holy Spirit and our faith becomes a fertile reality which engenders good works in us as the Scriptures attest "which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them" (Eph. 2:10). Thus, according to the Apostles, faith engenders true works; and true works, which are the fruit of the Holy Spirit, bear witness and prove the existence of a true faith. Since faith is neither abstract nor sterile, it is impossible to dissociate it from good works. It was by this same faith in the same Jesus Christ that the righteous of the Old Testament (who are venerated to the same degree as the other saints in the Orthodox Church) were saved, and not because of their legalistic or disciplinary observance of the Law. Faith is also a gift of God, and a man relying on his own efforts, his own piety, or his own spirituality, cannot of himself possess this faith. Yet faith is not imposed: to those who desire it, God grants it, not because of a fatalistic predestination, but because of His Divine foreknowledge and His disposition to co-operate with man's free will. If God has given us faith, we must not think ourselves better than others, nor superior or more worthy than them, nor should we think that we have received it because of our own merits, but we should attribute this favor to the goodness of God Whose reasons escape us. We must thank Him by bowing down before the mystery of this privilege and be conscious that one of the attributes of faith is the "lack of curiosity." It is neither works nor faith, but only the Living God Who saves us.

Reformationist said:

I am currently participating in a different thread in which one participant stated that "God never intended evil to exist." I'm curious if anyone agrees with that.

If so, please explain your position.

Thanks,
God bless

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I voted yes, God did intend evil to exist. Otherwise God is not omnipotent or sovereign.

However, I don't believe God is the perpetrator of evil. He created it and told us not to use it. Which we then did of course. He has a use for evil, but that doesn't mean we are allowed to use the evil. God did not put the evil He created into man's mind or heart, man did that himself by disobeying and eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He died spiritually and became carnal.. of the flesh... like the tree.

There is a bigger picture though. He wanted man to have the same nature as Himself. He planned the fall as the means towards that end.

2Pe 1:4 whereby he hath granted unto us his precious and exceeding great promises; that through these ye may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in that world by lust.

This is a paradox. How could a God who is GOOD create evil? Everything that God created is good. This is not a barrier to God. He is everywhere and in everything. Evil is not a creation, it is our disobedience.

Kristos said:

This is a paradox. How could a God who is GOOD create evil? Everything that God created is good. This is not a barrier to God. He is everywhere and in everything. Evil is not a creation, it is our disobedience.

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How do you explain the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

It was in the garden before the act of disobedience.

The answer to the question is that God didn't intend there to be Evil. Rather, He intended that mankind have free will, of which he knew both Good and Evil would manifest.

-A

Tavita said:

How do you explain the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

It was in the garden before the act of disobedience.

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Not before the disobedience of Satan. The tree of knowledge was forbidden to Adam and Eve because they were yet infants in a sense. Just as we do not feed meat to a litteral infant, so God forbade Adam and Eve to partake of the fruit of this tree. The fruit itself was not evil, the tree was not evil - the disobedience was evil. God did not create evil.

Kristos said:

Not before the disobedience of Satan. The tree of knowledge was forbidden to Adam and Eve because they were yet infants in a sense. Just as we do not feed meat to a litteral infant, so God forbade Adam and Eve to partake of the fruit of this tree. The fruit itself was not evil, the tree was not evil - the disobedience was evil. God did not create evil.

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The Tree of Life is symbolic of Jesus Christ Himself. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is symbolic of the flesh. The flesh does a lot of 'good' and 'evil', which is not acceptable to God.

They decided to eat of the flesh and put on another covering, instead of continuing to eat of the Giver of Life.

Where did the evil that Satan produced in his heart come from?