God's in Control

[JWesker]

How does God both allow freedom yet maintain control?

Have you seen evidence of this in your life?

 

[more excellent way]

Realistically, what is God in control of?...crime?.....war?.....hatred/resentment?,...
corruption?...cheating, etc.?

God gave us freewill.

If He 'took control', He would have to refuse/deny us "freewill" control of this world.

If you think that God is in control of this world full of freewill and you do not desire a "better country", then, no doubt, you love 'life in this world'.

Hebrews 11:16
"they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city".

John 12:25
"He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life".

Al those things (war, crime, hatred, etc.) are "grevious" to me and make me "poor in spirit"/sad/disgusted....

Ecclesiastes 2:17
"So I hated life, because what is done under the sun was grievous to me".

Matthew 5:3
"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is...."......(look it up below)...

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for RSV

Who told you that God is "in control" and that you should feel that everything is fine and dandy?.....MAN told you that, not God.

Check some of my other posts in other threads. I talk about a LOVE DEVOTION (a "more excellent" devotion/relationship, 1 Corin. 12:31).

Few people, if any, want to have a "love devotion" instead of a BOOK devotion because they feel that everything 'AS IS' (the status quo, their 'comfort zone') is just fine the way it is. Most people are completely satisfied with things as they are. The pastors, scholars, etc. tell them to simply comply with a book and pretend that "God is in control". That way, the moneychangers can simply continue to get money from us.....THAT is why they want us to believe that "God is in control".

That saying/attitude was simply 'made up' by the modern day moneychangers for self serving purposes.

 

[JWesker]

Realistically, what is God in control of?...crime?.....war?.....hatred/resentment?,...
corruption?...cheating, etc.?

Matthew 28:18 - "Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

According to dictionary.com, authority is "the power to determine, adjudicate, or otherwise settle issues or disputes; jurisdiction; the right to control, command, or determine."

When Christ said "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me," He was saying "The right to control" all things above and below is His.

If He 'took control', He would have to refuse/deny us "freewill" control of this world.

God did not have to "take control," as you say. In the person of Jesus Christ, He chose control by giving Himself unto death.

Who told you that God is "in control" and that you should feel that everything is fine and dandy?.....MAN told you that, not God.

If by MAN you mean Jesus Christ (again, Matthew 28:18), then I agree with you wholeheartedly.

If by MAN you mean Matthew (the author of the book from which said verse is quoted), then it comes down to personal belief - while I realize Matthew is just a human, I believe God used him and others like him to send the Message of love and grace He wants the whole world to hear.

If by MAN you mean another human here on Earth, then I urge you to look once again at Matthew 28:18.

Most people are completely satisfied with things as they are. The pastors, scholars, etc. tell them to simply comply with a book and pretend that "God is in control". That way, the moneychangers can simply continue to get money from us.....THAT is why they want us to believe that "God is in control".

I'm not sure if I understand your point here. Are you saying that pastors, scholars, etc. are just saying these things to get my tithes? Or are you talking about mass market products like Bibles and devotionals?

That saying/attitude was simply 'made up' by the modern day moneychangers for self serving purposes.

Again, I simply can't agree with you here. I do not believe the notion that "God is in control" was, as you say, "simply 'made up' by the modern day moneychangers" when the concept has been around for thousands of years:

Proverbs 21:1 - "The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD; he directs it like a watercourse wherever he pleases."

Proverbs 16:1 - "To man belong the plans of the heart, but from the LORD comes the reply of the tongue."

Proverbs 16:9 - "In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps."

Proverbs 16:33 - "The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD."

Romans 8:9 - "You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ."

 

[more excellent way]

No matter how sad it is and spiritually criminal (betraying Christ), it is also humorous that a spiritual person ever sees fit to gain any spiritual knowledge from or consult THE DICTIONARY.........(need I say more?).

You have found the kingdom you REALLY prefer....

............the kingdom of MAMMON (secular, worldly knowledge and possessions).


.................................Seek and you shall find.

 

[JWesker]

Slow down there, partner. I really don't appreciate you accusing me of betraying Christ for using the dictionary as a reference. I think this has gotten a little off topic. I apologize if I've offended you.

 

[more excellent way]

I came to Christ 23 years ago and I've seen it all my life. In pursuing spiritual wisdom, people will use the dictionary and encyclopedias.

I'm not even going to try and make sense out of that. The Lord is the only one who can explain to you that it doesn't make sense.

There is a difference between SPIRITUAL and SECULAR. Our worship is supposed in SPIRIT (spiritual) and TRUTH (our source of TRUTH is Jesus, John 14:6), not DICTIONARIES/books.

We pursue a SPIRITUAL truth (wisdom) for a SPIRITUAL kingdom and SPIRITUAL understanding so we can be SPIRITUALLY inside Jesus's body as a SPIRIT (new) creation.

Acts 17:28
"In Him, we live and move and have our being".

This is what we should seek....

Song of Songs 3:2.....................(Song of Solomon)

"I will seek him whom my soul loves"

.

 

[JWesker]

Once again, I feel as though we're completely off-topic here. Assuming I never referred to the dictionary, my point would still be the same - all authority (i.e., control) has been given to Christ. I referenced dictionary.com to validate what I was saying, but clearly that did not come across as intended.

So, let's try this again:

Romans 8:9 - "You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ."

Based on that verse alone, and with no secular references, I believe that God is in control of my life. Yes, I believe I have free will too, but I believe God knows every decision I'm going to make before I ever make it. That is why I believe God is in control of my life yet allows me the free will to make my own choices.

 

[more excellent way]

There are many, many things that we've been taught to SAY that are IN CONFLICT (contradictory) to each other.

Two of them are that (they are TWO different things, NOT 'ONE')...

1) GOD "controls" our life.

2) we have free will.

...it cannot be both ways, it has to be either/or.

If you are not in control of your life, then you cannot be a "master of himself"....

"but hospitable, a lover of goodness, master of himself, upright, holy, and self-controlled" (Titus 1:8).

The Lord cautions us against "self abasement" (Colossians 2:18) because it is dehumanizing and demoralizing.

Godliness is not a behavior contest. It's about getting back in touch with our creator and establishing a personal relationship with Him so that He can also have a personal relationship with us. He doesn't want us to be a BOOKLOVER/bookworm or a carbon copy of "the book", He wants to know the real 'us'.

The only way we can truly relate to and identify with God is to be in control of our life and know who we (the individual) are.

The heavenly Father's name "forever" is "I am who I am", but if you would rather not be the one who is in control of your life, then you are allowing "SELF abasement".

Colossians 2:18
"Let no one disqualify you, insisting on self-abasement".

Exodus 3:14
"God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"......(read on, it says "FOREVER").

"I am who I am" sent His Son.

"Jehovah" and "Elohim" were only names used in the ancient Israelite culture, they are not "FOREVER".

Be in control of your life so that YOUR spirit can relate to GOD'S SPIRIT....

Romans 8:16
"it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God".

God wants to KNOW US (the real us)....

James 4:5
"He yearns jealously".

...or are you a 'climber'?

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for RSV

 

[iloveringyou]

No matter how sad it is and spiritually criminal (betraying Christ), it is also humorous that a spiritual person ever sees fit to gain any spiritual knowledge from or consult THE DICTIONARY.........(need I say more?).

The dictionary is there for a purpose to define words, I am sure you know.
And what else should we go by for the definition of words besides the/a dictionary? Or our definition? Which I am sure has been made by the mere impression of a dictionary. What happens when there is a very difficult, not very common word used in the bible that some person does not know the meaning of, are they wrong to look at the dictionary for some understanding so they can better understand the bible and grow in their walk with God?

Personal attacks are not cool.

 

[iloveringyou]

There are many, many things that we've been taught to SAY that are IN CONFLICT (contradictory) to each other.

Two of them are that (they are TWO different things, NOT 'ONE')...

1) GOD "controls" our life.

2) we have free will.

...it cannot be both ways, it has to be either/or.

I always think that the only reason its contradictory is because we are limited to knowledge.

God as omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, and so much more.

He /is/ in control.

If I am watching children, then I am the one put in authority over them, in control, they have the free will to defy me, however, that doesn't cancel out the fact there will be consequences whether they defy me or not.

If he was not in control then how would prayer would not be answered?

His plan is irresistible and he is not limited to time. He is everywhere, at all times. He knows the past, present, and future. He knew what he had to do on calvary from the beginning of time to save all who receives his gift.

He can do as he please as long as he knows it will benefit his grand plan.

We have the choice to love him or not to love him, to follow him or not to follow him, to live our lives for him or not for him...and so on.

 

[more excellent way]

iloveringyou,


So far, I've received only RATIONALIZATIONS in order to justify what is false.

What exactly is God in control of?

Explain some of the day to day events that God prevents happening/occuring.

The statement that He is "in control" is a very hasty and SHORT (not FULLY explanatory) statement. The QUESTION (instead of a blank STATEMENT) should be...

.....WHAT does He TAKE CONTROL of?

He ALLOWS storms, earthquakes, tornadoes, crime, drugs, wars, hatred, car accidents, torture, poverty, widespread disease, etc. Of course, one popular excuse for some things is that they are a judgement against society, but is that the reason for war, crime, drugs, torture, corruption, hatred, etc.?....of course not.

If He has taken control of crime, why are their police forces all over the world?

Explain what He HAS "taken control" of (actually SPECIFY some EVENTS that He has "taken control" of).

For the most part, He does not intervene or interfere with the operation of 'human nature' and our free will. It is HUMANITY and the war mongers who cause war, not God,....(not even satan is responsible for wars, hatred, etc., everybody has the free will to cause evil or NOT CAUSE evil). Humanity has always used satan as a scapegoat instead of accepting responsibility for our own actions (satan does not cause evil things to happen, WE do).

Likewise, it is a 'cop out' to say that we are not responsible for ungodly behavior.

God is not in control of our behavior, WE are. When we resent/hate someone, it is because WE want to redeem our conscience and our ego (because of the underhanded things WE do),....but instead of accepting responsibilty for what we do (because the truth is that WE are in control with our freewill), we avoid having to admit responsibility by saying that we are not "in control"/responsible.

So, what exactly does He TAKE control of?

You SUGGESTED that there was a "personal attack". You avoided directly STATING that I am guilty of a personal attack (by SUGGESTING it).

That is a false accusation. Satan didn't put a gun to your head and force you to make that accusation, you decided of your own free will to 'suggestively accuse' me of that. God did not "take control" in order to prevent that (neither was it satan who made that accusation).

Christians will never accept responsibility for their own actions as long as they can say that either God or satan are responsible.

Scripture was originally written in ancient languages (Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek) and translated into modern languages (our native language). Some of the PRECISE/exact meaning is almost always lost in translation. On top of that, many bible translators have always taken great liberties in adding their own bias to the final translation. Add to that, many modern bible versions have been re-worded in certain ways to make them politically correct....
........and remember, the proper language used by dictionaries was not in use in Jesus's time or during King James time or during most bible translator's times.

So, a dictionary can only be helpful with a word that we have never really used in everyday language, but cannot offer ANY spiritual meaning/definition, only rough approximate definitions related to modern word usage.

The KJV was made for the Church of England. There are discrepancies (some are borderline harmful, some not harmful at all, and others that actually do make a difference). Many modern versions (especially the NIV) have very meaningful discrepancies and deletions.

In the KJV, Acts 12:4 has the Jews celebrating "EASTER" instead of PASSOVER...

"intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people"........(because it was made for the CHURCH OF ENGLAND).

So, beware of different bible versions, and take special care when using any text or reference outside scripture.

The bible version I use (Revised Standard Version, RSV) is 30 years old (the book itself is 30 years old,....before too much political correctness).

Check at this link to find many bible versions and see how the words change....
Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for RSV

Check online to see how the NEW King James Version (NKJV) is DEMONIC because it has been changed so much and IS VERY SPIRITUALLY HARMFUL (it even has a LOGO on the front cover that has 3 points and 6 lines,...666, an old demonic symbol). Mankind has always taken the three aspects of God (creation, salvation, spirit) and taught them as though man (the 6th day creation) should be glorified instead of God.

Satan will not OVERCOME ("prevail AGAINST") the true church, but, because of today's greatly fallen society, satan has infiltrated the institutions of Christianity. Beware of the many false beliefs and attitudes of mistrust/fear.

 

[JWesker]

.....WHAT does He TAKE CONTROL of?

As I said before, God never lost control in the first place, so He doesn't have to "TAKE" control of anything. He's had it from the very beginning.

He ALLOWS storms, earthquakes, tornadoes, crime, drugs, wars, hatred, car accidents, torture, poverty, widespread disease, etc. Of course, one popular excuse for some things is that they are a judgement against society, but is that the reason for war, crime, drugs, torture, corruption, hatred, etc.?....of course not.

My friend, I think you are contradicting yourself now. In order to allow something to happen, doesn't someone have to possess ownership over it? For example, I do not have the power to tell lightning where to fall. Therefore, I cannot allow it to fall or to not fall. Yet it still falls, despite the fact that I have no control over it.

You said God "ALLOWS" these things to happen. For Him to allow them to happen, He must be "above" them in some way. Sometimes the best use of control is taking your hands off the steering wheel and letting things go. Just because God allows things to happen does not negate the notion that He has no control.

God would have no control if things just happened based on chance. You, however, stated that God allows things to happen. Coincidence and control are not the same thing.

You SUGGESTED that there was a "personal attack". You avoided directly STATING that I am guilty of a personal attack (by SUGGESTING it).

I think it was more of an indirect personal attack. Your tone of writing can seem a little condescending at times. We're all friends here!

Check online to see how the NEW King James Version (NKJV) is DEMONIC because it has been changed so much and IS VERY SPIRITUALLY HARMFUL.

I draw the line here. First of all, calling a translation of the Word of God "DEMONIC" is completely inexcusable from a Christian.

And second of all, how is what you're asking us to do any different than what you so adamantly stated earlier? Here's what you said in an earlier post:

No matter how sad it is and spiritually criminal (betraying Christ), it is also humorous that a spiritual person ever sees fit to gain any spiritual knowledge from or consult THE DICTIONARY.

And...

In pursuing spiritual wisdom, people will use the dictionary and encyclopedias. I'm not even going to try and make sense out of that.

So it's okay to look stuff up online but not in the "DICTIONARY?" Both seem pretty secular to me.

 

[more excellent way]

Goodbye J Wesker, I'm leaving this thread.

 

[Jeffz]

I came to Christ 23 years ago and I've seen it all my life. In pursuing spiritual wisdom, people will use the dictionary and encyclopedias.

I'm not even going to try and make sense out of that. The Lord is the only one who can explain to you that it doesn't make sense.

There is a difference between SPIRITUAL and SECULAR. Our worship is supposed in SPIRIT (spiritual) and TRUTH (our source of TRUTH is Jesus, John 14:6), not DICTIONARIES/books.

We pursue a SPIRITUAL truth (wisdom) for a SPIRITUAL kingdom and SPIRITUAL understanding so we can be SPIRITUALLY inside Jesus's body as a SPIRIT (new) creation.

Acts 17:28
"In Him, we live and move and have our being".

This is what we should seek....

Song of Songs 3:2.....................(Song of Solomon)

"I will seek him whom my soul loves"

.

wisdom and knowledge are to be sought after also:

Pro 2:1 ¶ My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee; http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Pro&c=2&v=1&t=KJV#conc/2http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Pro&c=2&v=1&t=KJV#conc/2

Pro 2:2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, [and] apply thine heart to understanding;

Pro 2:3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, [and] liftest up thy voice for understanding;

Pro 2:4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as [for] hid treasures;

Pro 2:5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.

Pro 2:6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth [cometh] knowledge and understanding. Well that didn't paste well. Are we not to use any means necessary to obtain knowledge? How did you learn how to read and write? Are these ways wrong? Come on God has also given us common sense are we not to use it?Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. So are we not to use this powerful tool? I think not. I am always leary of those that would attempt to disregard the inspired Word of God.
I say this with love my friend, for it is very easy to be self deceived.

 

[iloveringyou]

iloveringyou, So far, I've received only RATIONALIZATIONS in order to justify what is false. What exactly is God in control of? Explain some of the day to day events that God prevents happening/occuring. The statement that He is "in control" is a very hasty and SHORT (not FULLY explanatory) statement. The QUESTION (instead of a blank STATEMENT) should be... .....WHAT does He TAKE CONTROL of? He ALLOWS storms, earthquakes, tornadoes, crime, drugs, wars, hatred, car accidents, torture, poverty, widespread disease, etc. Of course, one popular excuse for some things is that they are a judgement against society, but is that the reason for war, crime, drugs, torture, corruption, hatred, etc.?....of course not.

Since God is all-powerful and all-knowing which I hope you believe he is, then how could he not be in control? And if we didn't have free will, how could we choose to follow him? We couldn't, we would just follow him because we had to which on Gods part would make us love him. However, there is no love if there is no choice. So I believe he has the power/control over everything. He has a plan and it is irresistible. If it were not irresistible then we could simply change his plan. And like in one of the other boards about Gods Voice you mentioned that you need to pray for Gods Will not your Own Will. I am paraphrasing, mind me. But that is suggesting that God has a will and a purpose for each one of us. Is it because he changes us? Or is it because he is all-know and he is outside of time? Either way he can make it to where everything that we do is working in with his plan. Like my dad said, its like playing chess with God. But he knows ever possible move on the board, he knows every move that you will make, and with that knowledge he could set up the board to just win like cutting melted butter. lol The melted butter part was what I said. I personally believe that God has power/control over everything. No matter what. Just look at him on calvary, people yelled out if you are really God why don't you save yourself. (Paraphrasing sorrryyy) But you know, he could have stopped himself from dieing on the cross but did he? No, its because he loved us so much. And I see from other boards that you are fully aware of that and you have a good walk with Christ, from what I can tell. However, he is the creator and he has power over his creations. Thats just as I see it. And all those negative things happen I believe because we have free will. We are the ones that create the sin. As you said later in your message. If we were perfect people we would not abuse the plants God gave us in useing drugs. If we were perfect people I am sure the world would be peaceful in having no wars. And so on...but the problem is, we are not perfect people. We have inherited the sinful nature, that I am sure any of us would have started, given the chance. Just because God allows us the free will to make mistakes as we so often do doesn't mean he is not in control.[/quote]

Explain what He HAS "taken control" of (actually SPECIFY some EVENTS that He has "taken control" of).

Actually I do believe the bible is full of examples. First of all you have him saying, "Let there be light." And well there was light. So right there he has control over light and everything else he he made during creation. He had the control over Adam and Eve to kick them out, to curse them for eating from the tree, and to provide them with clothes, lamb, and I am not sure what else. Then there is Noah, he told him to build an arch so that humans could live on after he sent the flood. See he was in control of the corruption, he just destroyed all those people because of how bad they were sinning and such. I don't know that story all too well but you get what I mean, I hope. D: The Tower of Babel, he scattered the people and confused them with different languages. So he has control over the tongues of man. There are signs of Gods control throughout the life of Moses also. There is so much more, in which I also need to get more into the OT. And there is plenty of signs of his control in the NT also. Just look in Revelation, God is still as powerful as can be. From Genesis, the start of Creation to Revelation, to the demise of Creation, God is never changing and will always be in control. I judt don't see anyway around it. The understanding of the contradiction may seem confusing but that is only because we have a human understanding, not Gods understanding. And Gods understanding/knowledge makes ours look liek a grain of sand, if that.

For the most part, He does not intervene or interfere with the operation of 'human nature' and our free will. It is HUMANITY and the war mongers who cause war, not God,....(not even satan is responsible for wars, hatred, etc., everybody has the free will to cause evil or NOT CAUSE evil). Humanity has always used satan as a scapegoat instead of accepting responsibility for our own actions (satan does not cause evil things to happen, WE do). Likewise, it is a 'cop out' to say that we are not responsible for ungodly behavior. God is not in control of our behavior, WE are. When we resent/hate someone, it is because WE want to redeem our conscience and our ego (because of the underhanded things WE do),....but instead of accepting responsibilty for what we do (because the truth is that WE are in control with our freewill), we avoid having to admit responsibility by saying that we are not "in control"/responsible.

I was not trying to say our bad behavior is to be blamed on anyone else. Because we as humans are in a war against- Satan, Ourselves, and the World. But as Christians I believe that Satan is not longer in the picture, in a sense we are not longer slaves to sin, but slaves to righteousness as Romans 6 says. Like many other verses. If we sin after becoming a Christian then it is our fault, either because we are just not obeying God like we should or simply we can not over come the temptations of this world. But as a Christian/believer in God, you must strive to be all that you can be, not for yourself- but for God. While no amount of works could even compare to the gift of God we still must take responsibility for our sins, repent, and continue trying our best to please God.

So, what exactly does He TAKE control of?

In my honest opinion, I don't think the issues is what exactly he /takes/ control of, I think it is the fact he CAN take control of whatever he wants. Because he is God.

You SUGGESTED that there was a "personal attack". You avoided directly STATING that I am guilty of a personal attack (by SUGGESTING it). That is a false accusation. Satan didn't put a gun to your head and force you to make that accusation, you decided of your own free will to 'suggestively accuse' me of that. God did not "take control" in order to prevent that (neither was it satan who made that accusation).

The tone in which you said it seemed like an attack or diminishing. Your being just as suggestively accusative with the whole betraying Christ thing. I just thought it was a little uncalled for.

Christians will never accept responsibility for their own actions as long as they can say that either God or satan are responsible.

Thats hasty generalization. D:

Scripture was originally written in ancient languages (Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek) and translated into modern languages (our native language). Some of the PRECISE/exact meaning is almost always lost in translation. On top of that, many bible translators have always taken great liberties in adding their own bias to the final translation. Add to that, many modern bible versions have been re-worded in certain ways to make them politically correct.... ........and remember, the proper language used by dictionaries was not in use in Jesus's time or during King James time or during most bible translator's times. So, a dictionary can only be helpful with a word that we have never really used in everyday language, but cannot offer ANY spiritual meaning/definition, only rough approximate definitions related to modern word usage.

There is so many languages in the world. So many different people that need to hear the word of God. We have to translate it for people. And of course since we are not all-knowing, nothing but amateur thinkers(at least compared to God) there is going to be some mis-translations. And yes some versions are more bias then others. And if you are the type of person that needs to get technical and down to every last detail which I think is great(for the fact you probably strive to learn more about Gods word) then I suggest that you try and learn Hebrew, Greek, or both so you can read a version more accurate to the original text. But all-in-all the word of God is powerful and good. The mistranslations are bad and misleading. However, I think if people get the general idea instead of none at all then it is good. People need to hear Gods word so they can better choose whether they will be followers of God or followers of their own selfish desires making them children of Satan. Look at the dictionary as the internet. The internet a a great tool for learning. The dictionary is too. But they both become bad as they are abused or used for the wrong reasons. Jwesker was using the dictionary to better understand the bible. I use the internet to better understand the bible. Both are compilations of knowledge that help you learn more so that reading the bible wont seem like your reading a book on physics as a kindergartner. All the same I also do not believe that it should be a set in stone study device. If that makes sense.

The KJV was made for the Church of England. There are discrepancies (some are borderline harmful, some not harmful at all, and others that actually do make a difference). Many modern versions (especially the NIV) have very meaningful discrepancies and deletions. In the KJV, Acts 12:4 has the Jews celebrating "EASTER" instead of PASSOVER... "intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people"........(because it was made for the CHURCH OF ENGLAND). So, beware of different bible versions, and take special care when using any text or reference outside scripture. The bible version I use (Revised Standard Version, RSV) is 30 years old (the book itself is 30 years old,....before too much political correctness). Check at this link to find many bible versions and see how the words change.... (iloveringyou took out the link I need 50 posts first) Check online to see how the NEW King James Version (NKJV) is DEMONIC because it has been changed so much and IS VERY SPIRITUALLY HARMFUL (it even has a LOGO on the front cover that has 3 points and 6 lines,...666, an old demonic symbol). Mankind has always taken the three aspects of God (creation, salvation, spirit) and taught them as though man (the 6th day creation) should be glorified instead of God. Satan will not OVERCOME ("prevail AGAINST") the true church, but, because of today's greatly fallen society, satan has infiltrated the institutions of Christianity. Beware of the many false beliefs and attitudes of mistrust/fear.

Yes people should be careful. But I think the base idea of Gods Word is still in every version. God made us, we sinned, he came to earth, he died to save us, so in him we can live again with him in heaven if we receive his gift. Soooo long sorry. D:

 

[JWesker]

Goodbye J Wesker, I'm leaving this thread.

I haven't agreed with everything you've said, but you are certainly passionate about your faith, so I respect you for that. Thanks for the convo!

 

[Jeffz]

Loverlingyou your response above is filled with wisdom beyond your years, God has been working in you I see. Thanks for all you have expressed to moreexcellentway. Also to JWesker you have handled this with humility and love and I thank you for that, may we endeavor to answer all with love above all.
To MoreExcellentWay I offer you my brother, the peace that passes all understanding through the love of the Messiah, may you continue to pursue the truth and may God give you understanding, your messeges are most zealous and passionate as our brother JWesker has mentioned.
Jeffrey

 

[iloveringyou]

Loverlingyou your response above is filled with wisdom beyond your years, God has been working in you I see. Thanks for all you have expressed to moreexcellentway. Also to JWesker you have handled this with humility and love and I thank you for that, may we endeavor to answer all with love above all.
To MoreExcellentWay I offer you my brother, the peace that passes all understanding through the love of the Messiah, may you continue to pursue the truth and may God give you understanding, your messeges are most zealous and passionate as our brother JWesker has mentioned.
Jeffrey

Thank you for your kind words. I only hope that I can grow in the knowledge of the Lord so that everything I do reflects him and his great sacrifice. So through me I can be a tool in save more and more people form death.

I agree with you. Both show passion and I just pray that God continues to work in there lives, including you.