God's goodness

[diekatzen]

There are many aspects of Christianity which I find perplexing, but most of them all hinge on one essential issue: god's goodness.

Personally, I am not a believing in any religion's god or holy book, but I am trying to understand, and right now I don't need convincing to accept it because I'll just grant it. So, presuming god exists, and presuming the Bible provides an accurate description of god's character and some history of his interaction with human beings, how can it be said that god is good? The Bible is full of atrocities: filthy acts of violence for the most part, such as rapes and murders. When humans commit or condone these actions, they are almost never labelled "good", and even if they get away with it for a while, such as Hitler in Germany, the world at large eventually comes to realize they are not good and exposes them as evil. However, the Bible is an account which is crammed full of horrifying stories of murder, genocide and the like, and yet even though god is said in the Bible to condone these actions - even to endorse them, demand them or do them himself - Christians continue to state that god is good; indeed, that god is perfect. Why the double standard?

After all, god does one of the very things he labels wrong in the Bible - murder. If murder is wrong, then after murdering the firstborn sons of Egyptians and encouraging murder of various ethnic enemies of the Jewish people, isn't god in the wrong? How can a Christian state with any degree of sincerity that god is good after learning that god, according to the Bible, has done something bad? It would make sense to me, even if god were still labelled good after doing something wrong, because I believe that decent people can make mistakes and I would grant god the same allowances despite claimed omnipotence, but how can Christians continue to label this god "perfect"?

Something else about this which concerns me is the way some Christians are only too glad to hand credit for victory, happiness, survival or success over to god, claiming none of it for themselves - yet, when something bad happens, these same people blame themselves or devils and never seem to blame god. If god is good, and is responsible for good things, who is responsible for evil, and why can't god overcome them with his goodness?

 

[53Isaiah]

What you’re talking about are the concepts of moral absolutism and moral relativism as it pertains to a "ethical dilemma". If the Bible is nothing but a silly superstition, then one has to determine what their moral authority is. If understood yours it would help me respond to your post.

 

[diekatzen]

What you’re talking about are the concepts of moral absolutism and moral relativism as it pertains to a "ethical dilemma". If the Bible is nothing but a silly superstition, then one has to determine what their moral authority is. If understood yours it would help me respond to your post.

I'm actually more concerned with the Christian understanding of morality, and in what defines goodness and evil, whether there is a common standard or no, etc. I'd like to know what you think about the issue - how you can define god as good; we're already clear that I don't, and for the moment, can't.

There's a book by Mark Hauser that puts it much better than I can, but I'm of an opinion that the majority if not all of humanity (aside from the very rare mad person) have an intrinsic moral understanding. All cultures place limitations on acts of murder and violence. Most cultures have sexual and modesty taboos. I think humans come equipped with a knowledge of right and wrong especially as it translates into the big things. I suppose you could refer to that as my moral authority, and for discussion purposes we can look at this innate knowledge as god-given.

 

[Emmy]

Dear diekatzen. May I start by pointing out, the Old Testament is a History of Israel and their Prophets, and when Christ came, He showed us how God is really, a loving Heavenly Father. God is GOOD, diekatzen, we had wandered far away from Him, and God could have given up on us, but He loves us, and He wants us back again. Jesus reconciled us to God, and now we have to repent, to learn to love again. The New Testament will explain it more in detail. I say this humbly and with love, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ. P.S. Pharaoh had many chances to let the Israelites go, it was his stubborn heart, which brought on the sad consequences.

 

[Lukaris]

Your questions are entirely valid and can only be found to be resolved by the incarnation, preaching, crucifixion, and resurrection of Jesus Christ Lord and Saviour. Perhaps to get an idea of why God permits certain things to happen can be found by reading the books of Job,Habbakuk, & Lamentations (of Jeremiah) in the Old Testament. While we find God's love radiant in the books of Ruth and Song of Solomon and even dominant and commanding in the book of Jonah. Then perhaps read the book of Ecclesiastes which has wisdom that predates much later recorded wisdom (although some detractors will say Solomon did not write this such is sometimes the sort of scholarship to earn a paycheck). Perhaps all we can say as Christians towards the old covenant is what God told us, "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law." (Deuteronomy 29:29). Except for Job, none of these are very long to read. In the New Testament you may want to read Romans chptrs 1 & 2 to understand how St. Paul outlines the human predicament from the fall of Adam & Eve. Then read St. Stephen's indictment of the old priesthood & summary of the old covenant in Acts 7, then read chptr 1 in the Gospel of St. John to know Jesus Christ as God, the call of St. John the baptist, & the selection of the apostles. Then read chptrs 5,6, & 7 of the Gospel imperative in St. Matthew's Gospel & add St. Paul's summation in Ephesians 2:8-10, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanshipworkmanship,created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." Hope this is truthful and helpful in presenting the Gospel of Jesus Christ and that you can delve further into the Bible. God bless.

 

[diekatzen]

Thank you for the suggestions. I currently do not have a Bible but I'm sure I can get one and read the books suggested.

 

[Faith In God]

There are many aspects of Christianity which I find perplexing, but most of them all hinge on one essential issue: god's goodness.

So, presuming god exists, and presuming the Bible provides an accurate description of god's character and some history of his interaction with human beings, how can it be said that god is good?

God is the definition of good.
Make sense of THAT.

...just kidding.
See below.

The Bible is full of atrocities: filthy acts of violence for the most part, such as rapes and murders. When humans commit or condone these actions, they are almost never labelled "good", and even if they get away with it for a while, such as Hitler in Germany, the world at large eventually comes to realize they are not good and exposes them as evil. However, the Bible is an account which is crammed full of horrifying stories of murder, genocide and the like, and yet even though god is said in the Bible to condone these actions - even to endorse them, demand them or do them himself - Christians continue to state that god is good; indeed, that god is perfect. Why the double standard?

What double standard?
You said that the Bible is full of atrocities. Then you list them:
rape, murder, genocide.

First of all, show me where in the Bible God ever commanded rape.

Secondly.
You said you are presuming the Bible is correct.
If the Bible is accurate about God, then you must also remember what "good" entails.
What is a "good" judge? A good judge is one who weighs matters of justice effectively.
Is a judge who lets everyone go scott-free a good judge??

Of course not.
God is the Judge of the Universe. You will never find anywhere in the Bible when God commands someone who does NOT represent Him to commit an act of judgment (murder?). Every time God commanded humans to execute judgment, they had to be directly in line with EVERYTHING He commanded them. When Israel began to turn to abhominable idols like Molech (a god who fed on child sacrifice by burning alive), God turned His face away from them.

When a nation was destroyed by Israel (like Egypt, arguably), then GOD was held responsible! Rahab turned to Israel's side because she had heard of GOD'S judgment on Pharoah.

God is Judge. Good judges execute justice.
There was a time when a nation acted as God's voice on earth: that was ancient Israel.
That time is long gone. God cannot do that anymore.

Does that make sense?

After all, god does one of the very things he labels wrong in the Bible - murder.

God is not a human being: God is the judge of the universe.
Those are NOT commandments for HIMSELF, those are commandments for ISRAEL. "Hear, O Israel..."

I mean, yes, Abraham asked God "Wilt thou slay the righteous with the wicked?"
God will not kill someone who does not deserve it, and if anyone knows who deserves something...it's God.

Something else about this which concerns me is the way some Christians are only too glad to hand credit for victory, happiness, survival or success over to god, claiming none of it for themselves - yet, when something bad happens, these same people blame themselves or devils and never seem to blame god. If god is good, and is responsible for good things, who is responsible for evil, and why can't god overcome them with his goodness?

Victory, happiness, etc don't always come by the hand of God. The Devil can give those things too. Remember the devil's temptations given to Jesus?

The only answer I have for you is the one Paul gave to his charges about himself:
"I have learned the secret of being content, for I know how to live with plenty and live with want." (Paraphrased).
God provides what we need.

However...
whenever something great happens that makes you happy...don't you want to tell someone about it? It's called praise.