Godlessness and choice

[anonymous person]

Yes it does.

For example, i dont need faith to agree with evolution, i have boatloads of reliable objective evidence. I dont need faith to believe my computer will work and or the lights will go on when i flip the switch, as i have the same evidence as to the how and why these things work, that can be verified outside of my opinion.

Now, i will need faith my team will win the world series this year and or, that i will win lotto one day.

By what means did you acquire this reliable objective evidence for evolution?

 

[bhsmte]

Do you have any positive claims to make regarding those topics I asked you about?

I believe, jesus was likely a real historical figure, who was preaching mostly forgiveness and caring for others. I believe peoples morals are mostly driven by societal expectations, since we have evolved as social beings and getting along aids in survival of the species. Evil and sin, are mostly religious driven terms that i do not use. People do bad things for a variety of reasons; being placed in desperate situations and personal psyche being another big driver. The reason there is something is something i dont know. When and if i do and i have valid reasons to support a position, i will let you know. Destiny is also a term i dont use, because it implies a pre planned outcome. How are lives turn out, is determine by our own behavior and also other forces in society that are out of our control.

 

[anonymous person]

I believe, jesus was likely a real historical figure, who was preaching mostly forgiveness and caring for others. I believe peoples morals are mostly driven by societal expectations, since we have evolved as social beings and getting along aids in survival of the species. Evil and sin, are mostly religious driven terms that i do not use. People do bad things for a variety of reasons; being placed in desperate situations and personal psyche being another big driver. The reason there is something is something i dont know. When and if i do and i have valid reasons to support a position, i will let you know. Destiny is also a term i dont use, because it implies a pre planned outcome. How are lives turn out, is determine by our own behavior and also other forces in society that are out of our control.

Thank you for the thoughtful response.

You said you believed that Jesus was likely a historical figure who preached forgiveness and caring for others. Very good. We agree.

But why do you think that? How did you come to that conclusion is what I am asking.

 

[bhsmte]

By what means did you acquire this reliable objective evidence for evolution?

The same place i get evidence to understand the theory of gravity, germ theory etc. It is called science. You know, the same place people like francis collins, the devout christian, physician and former head of the human genome projects gets his evidence, to have such strong support of evolution. If i wasnt on my phone, i would post this scientific evidence for you. But it has been posted on this site, countless times.

 

[bhsmte]

That you for the thoughtful response.

You said you believed that Jesus was likely a historical figure who preached forgiveness and caring for others. Very good. We agree.

But why do you think that? How did you come to that conclusion is what I am asking.

I come to that conclusion based on devouring the work of academic nt scholars and historians, who give arguments that are credible and follow the historical method. Granted, considering we have no original copies of the nt, and none full copies until 200 years after he died, along with decades passing in anonymous authors penning them, this is certainly not a slam dunk. I am about 75-80% confident in this position.

 

[anonymous person]

The same place i get evidence to understand the theory of gravity, germ theory etc. It is called science. You know, the same place people like francis collins, the devout christian, physician and former head of the human genome projects gets his evidence, to have such strong support of evolution. If i wasnt on my phone, i would post this scientific evidence for you. But it has been posted on this site, countless times.

And how do scientists acquire the knowledge they do? What do they use?

 

[bhsmte]

And how do scientists acquire the knowledge they do? What do they use?

Scientific method

 

[anonymous person]

Scientific method

And in order to use that method, what do we trust in, rely on, commit to, depend on etc. Etc?

 

[bhsmte]

And in order to use that method, what do we trust in, rely on, commit to, depend on etc. Etc?

The trust that the method works, when used correctly and is reliable.

 

[anonymous person]

The trust that the method works, when used correctly and is reliable.

We trust in the trust?

 

[bhsmte]

We trust in the trust?

Take a moment and think of every hour of everyday and the fact you enjoy so many different things, because the scientific method works and can be tested. So, the trust comes from testable results.

 

[anonymous person]

Take a moment and think of every hour of everyday and the fact you enjoy so many different things, because the scientific method works and can be tested. So, the trust comes from testable results.

Scientists use tools when doing research, microscopes, telescopes, etc..etc..

Do you agree?

 

[bhsmte]

Scientists use tools when doing research, microscopes, telescopes, etc..etc..

Yes. Reliable tools, that can be tested for accuracy, to produce reliable results.
Do you agree?

 

[anonymous person]

I agree.

What do they use when looking through a telescope or a microscope?

They use their eyes right?

 

[quatona]

If I recall correctly, you were asking for evidence. Evidence that would demonstrate to you that Jesus rose bodily from the dead on the Sunday morning following His crucifixion.

You recall incorrectly, and on top you make it look like I had been challenging you. You came here claiming to have evidence for the existence of God, so I asked you to bring it to the table.
I never asked you for any evidence concerning the Sunday morning thing specifically (you brought that up much later).

If you think miracles are something that can be evidenced, then I will apologize for claiming you didn't think that.

Your false claim that I called you upon was about something else (post #424: "Exceptional claims, as in, claims that cannot be true. That's what you mean when you say "exceptional claims".), and we both know it. After your false claim had been exposed you went on a long unrelated tangent about my sig-line and then you suddenly added this "miracle-evidence" thing, and are now pretending that this was the false claim I had called you upon.

You don´t make falsehoods disappear by piling other falsehoods upon them.
Play these dishonest games with someone else - I am not available for that.

 

[bhsmte]

I agree.

What do they use when looking through a telescope or a microscope?

They use their eyes right?

Scientists rely on data collected from instruments and methods that can be independently tested for accuracy.

 

[anonymous person]

Scientists rely on data collected from instruments and methods that can be independently tested for accuracy.

The data is collected via the five senses.
The data is interpreted via reason.

They use their eyes to examine distant stars through a telescope, or micro organisms in a slide under a microscope.

They use the sense of touch to feel the electricity moving through a current.

They use their sense of smell when studying sulfuric compounds

They use their sense of hearing to listen to potential broadcasts emanating from deep space.

They use their mind to reason that certain sensory input gives true insight into the nature of a world that exists independently of them.

Do you agree?

 

[Dave Ellis]

Sure I can have my cake and eat it too. Philo didn't record anything about John the Baptist, but surely someone like Philo knew about him, being that he was in the proximity of the Herodians and all.

And didn't you say that Philo wrote about 'minor' religious figures? It's funny that he didn't mention John the Baptist---but Josephus did. Go figure. So, it sounds like you are really stretching your assurance as to just what Philo would have written when, as issues of historiography go, we don't really know for sure just what Philo would have written...other than things related to his philosophical theology and to his familial relationships in Alexandria and Palestine.

So, let's get this straight. Philo doesn't mention John, but Josephus does. Philo doesn't mention Jesus, but Josephus probably did mention at least some little tid bit about Jesus, despite all of the hem and haw from critics that the passage has some additional fabrication to it. Something's fishy here, and I think it's our expectation that Philo cared all that much about Jesus, his entourage, or his affiliates, and hence, we find that Philo says nothing.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

I see, so in your mind Jesus was no more important or prominent than John the Baptist. Gotcha.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Because rationality can only come from a rational source and free will can only occur if our mind is not bound to physical laws.

Then where did god's rationality come from?

 

[Dave Ellis]

No, I have. Go back and read my post about how chemistry and the mind work.

I did, and your post is wrong. If you want to though, try supporting your post with a legitimate scientific paper, then we'll talk.

Yes, it does because if there was no evidence for it, then that would be evidence against Christianity.

Ok, then what's your evidence to support it?

Prove that I provided a bunch of non-sequiturs and red herrings.

Prove that you didn't.