God....

[ImmersionX]

Does not give people new gold fillings!
Does not give people the power to raise the dead!
Does not instruct people to talk to their wallets to get more money.(folly for fools!)
Does not require someone to blow on their person to heal them!
Does not annoint/bless/heal physically people thru a person's hands in modern times!(the Lord Our God will raise someone from the grave....thru noone but Himself!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

God the Holy Spirit does NOT electrify people and make them fall to the floor stuck for 4 hours!
God the Holy Spirit does NOT make people fly into walls!
God the Holy Spirit does NOT make believers fall into fits of hysterical laughter for hours on end!

God DOES and DID a long time ago send His Holy Spirit to guide all of us in truth and love and fear and discipleship to the Lord Jesus Christ!!!!!

What is going on here????????????????
How petty do you think salvation is to Him? How desperate are people now a days to feel something.....?
Is not what God has given enough?????????????????????????????????

I am ranting....I am sad, and I am disgusted with some of the things claimed here!!!!!!!!!!! I am not stupid, I am not decieved, I am not illiterate, I can read Scripture and I have the intellect to find Truth.

I am praying, crying, feeling horror at what some people claim as "of God"!!!!!!! Call me false, call me a heretic, call me misleading, call me stupid! I do not care..........My mind, heart and soul tell me otherwise. Tell me I don't know a thing! Tell me I don't know Scripture, tell me I don't see everything that you see! FOLLY!


Guess what!?! Welcome to my prophetic meltdown at the misguided ideas of (some in) modern day Christianity.

Lakeland is NOT a revival! It is not of God.

I'm as mad as Jonah right now, and emphatic as Isaiah right now, and as sad as Paul writing his epistles to the churches about dealing with false teachers.

I'm not being polite, and I'm not being politically correct anymore. If you don't like it.....read the Bible, cause Political Correctness, and worrying about other's "feelings" wasn't a part of the overall picture was it?

Nuff said.

God Bless.

 

[Elijah2]

Good words mate, that makes two more who belong to the 20% of His Disciples. As one of the others of the 20% said to me many years ago, to be aware, beware, and don't be unaware.

Bless you mate, and be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[siege]

Matthew:
10:34 `Ye may not suppose that I came to put peace on the earth; I did not come to put peace, but a sword;

10:35 for I came to set a man at variance against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law,

10:36 and the enemies of a man are those of his household.

People today often confuse "love" with "peace". When they say Jesus' ministry was one of love they present it as something akin to the '70's lovey dubby peace movement...be nice, be politically correct, most importantly "do not offend".

Love is not peace. Love is simply wanting what is best for another...at times, no matter the cost to yourself.

To present truth is the highest form of love...and in THIS is the ministry of love that Jesus brought.

The sword in this verse is truth...though truth is presented through love it is "a sword". Depending on how it is accepted by the one receiving...it will often cut, most often to the heart. It hurts, it offends, it divides when it is not seen for what it is and accepted.

The only problem I have with your post is the claim of "intellect". I doubt you really intended it in this manner...but I'd like to point it out anyway...

Intellect is meaningless...if we are dividing God's word through our own intellect we've already gotten it wrong. True understanding will only be found through the guidance of the Holy spirit. The only "true" meaning to His word is what He meant by it. The only way for us to undeniably KNOW that truth is for Him to tell us. So...ask Him to, and let Him.

 

[ImmersionX]

Agreed Intellect is meaningless, and not meant to divide God's Word. I only meant that in defense of myself in regards to possible responses of myself being "blinded" by emotion or whatever.

Thankyou for clarifying and your opinion on it. I guess I stated about intellect also because so many things here are so based on emotion and feeling, and I believe that with true Reverance for our Lord God, intellect MUST be in play.
=)

Peace and God Bless.

 

[habeas]

Does not give people new gold fillings!
Does not give people the power to raise the dead!
Does not instruct people to talk to their wallets to get more money.(folly for fools!)
Does not require someone to blow on their person to heal them!
Does not annoint/bless/heal physically people thru a person's hands in modern times!(how dare you who claim that He does, the Lord Our God will raise someone from the grave....thru noone but Himself!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

God the Holy Spirit does NOT electrify people and make them fall to the floor stuck for 4 hours!
God the Holy Spirit does NOT make people fly into walls!
God the Holy Spirit does NOT make believers fall into fits of hysterical laughter for hours on end!(what do you take our Lord for? a clown?????)

God DOES and DID a long time ago send His Holy Spirit to guide all of us in truth and love and fear and discipleship to the Lord Jesus Christ!!!!!

What is going on here????????????????
The desperate are just more encouraged by the deceitful....gold dust? My Lord! What are you thinking? How foolish do you take the Lord? How petty do you think salvation is to Him? How desperate are people now a days to feel something.....?
Is not what God has given enough?????????????????????????????????

I am ranting....I am sad, and I am disgusted with some of the things claimed here!!!!!!!!!!! I am not stupid, I am not decieved, I am not illiterate, I can read Scripture and I have the intellect to find Truth.

I am praying, crying, feeling horror at what some people claim as "of God"!!!!!!! Call me false, call me a heretic, call me misleading, call me stupid! I do not care..........My mind, heart and soul tell me otherwise. Tell me I don't know a thing! Tell me I don't know Scripture, tell me I don't see everything that you see! FOLLY!

Where are you getting the idea that God does not heal people through a person's hands in modern times? Scripture please. Are you a cessationist?

James 5:15-15: Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Mark 16:17-18 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

 

[siege]

Hmm...yes...reading that again I'd have to question that as well. When I read thru the first time I somehow saw it inferring that God should get the credit for healings...not man. THAT I'd agree with. To say that God will not heal through the vessel of a man in modern times...I don't agree.

 

[ImmersionX]

K well, not sure how you got that question....but no, not a cessationist, used to be....the scriptures that you quote don't really support the healing of people physically by another person's hands in modern times.
Was it cause I used the 2 words "modern times" that led you to ask that cessationist question?
Not warranted at all my brother.
Both scriptures prove that God will heal....not that man will heal man, and honestly that's a very weak attempt at using proof text to prove a point.
If God wanted people to use their hands to heal the sick, why does it seem that it's not on the national news? And don't tell me yahoo's like Benny Hinn are healers cause that's plain rubbish.
I believe that if God want's things to happen they will happen....yet, it seems that everyone falls for incomplete miracles now a days....wow, a healer, "heals" a woman with a broken leg...she can walk where she couldn't before! Same healer get's credit, gives it to God. After the fact, leg is examined, cast is taken off, leg still shattered, yet healer claims it's a miracle. NOT SCRIPTURAL! INCOMPLETE HEALINGS, which are false scripturally, are the only healings common today.
If you disagree, I will simply say that you are wrong....NO healings are done thru a man.
(again when I state the word Healings.....it's complete, unequivocal, GOD oriented HEALING, not half ass "gonna make ya walk, Xray gonna show a fracture still, but you can still (barely) walk" rubbish!
I'm going to bed, I know my word's won't even make one person think about what they claim here.
I've stated what I have to say....God will sort all out.
Believe me, I pray for all the ignorance to truely be sorted out by God, cause there are a lot of people that just have it wrong despite their hopes, dreams, and feelings.



Peace and God Bless.

 

[Amadeo65]

Intellect is meaningless...if we are dividing God's word through our own intellect we've already gotten it wrong. True understanding will only be found through the guidance of the Holy spirit. The only "true" meaning to His word is what He meant by it. The only way for us to undeniably KNOW that truth is for Him to tell us. So...ask Him to, and let Him.

That's all well and nice, but how do we know what God is and isn't saying? Seems to me that one of the biggest problems we face in the Church is the fact that there are alot of Christians who think they hear God, but they actually only hear their own whispers. They hear only that which is most convenient to them, they cuddle up to nice ideas and to things which tickle their vanity and self righteousness.

How many times has a person claiming to be a master of "discernment" condemned a person without a cause? How many times has a person added something to a perfectly simple theology based on am "impression" or a "feeling" about something they read? The scripture, therefore, is best left to reason, not to the impressions of fallible men. If God guides are reason, that is one thing, but to say that we can "feel" our way around is nonsense. What is also nonsense is to trust in our "impressions" or the reasoning that we might be led into based on the belief that it was God who led us into it. Reason isn't that great either, but it's better than emotion.

 

[habeas]

K well, not sure how you got that question....but no, not a cessationist, used to be....the scriptures that you quote don't really support the healing of people physically by another person's hands in modern times.
Was it cause I used the 2 words "modern times" that led you to ask that cessationist question?
Not warranted at all my brother.
Both scriptures prove that God will heal....not that man will heal man, and honestly that's a very weak attempt at using proof text to prove a point.
If God wanted people to use their hands to heal the sick, why does it seem that it's not on the national news? And don't tell me yahoo's like Benny Hinn are healers cause that's plain rubbish.
I believe that if God want's things to happen they will happen....yet, it seems that everyone falls for incomplete miracles now a days....wow, a healer, "heals" a woman with a broken leg...she can walk where she couldn't before! Same healer get's credit, gives it to God. After the fact, leg is examined, cast is taken off, leg still shattered, yet healer claims it's a miracle. NOT SCRIPTURAL! INCOMPLETE HEALINGS, which are false scripturally, are the only healings common today.
If you disagree, I will simply say that you are wrong....NO healings are done thru a man.
(again when I state the word Healings.....it's complete, unequivocal, GOD oriented HEALING, not half ass "gonna make ya walk, Xray gonna show a fracture still, but you can still (barely) walk" rubbish!
I'm going to bed, I know my word's won't even make one person think about what they claim here.
I've stated what I have to say....God will sort all out.
Believe me, I pray for all the ignorance to truely be sorted out by God, cause there are a lot of people that just have it wrong despite their hopes, dreams, and feelings.



Peace and God Bless.

First off, I'm not a man, and you can call them "proof texts," but there's a whole lot more where they came from. Also, "proof texts" or not, they are the word of God which you cannot refute. I'm not going to cut and paste vast portions of the N.T. here. I strongly disapprove of Benny Hinn's and Bentleys' antics, but that is another matter. What did you mean by "modern times?"

God does the healing, but we should be vessels. We aren't healing many people and thus there are many so desperate they look in the wrong places. That's not God's fault and His Word is not therefore void.

I was blind in my right eye after a complete retinal detachment in 1997 and now I can see 20/25 corrected out of it. Yes, its a partial healing but I'll take it!

 

[siege]

I understand where you are coming from...and I understand that all you see on tv and whatnot is these rubbish healings. I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments about that.

However...I can personally attest otherwise to what you say about complete healings of God "in modern times" by man's hand.

My brother-in-law for one...had diabetes. He was irresponsible and stubborn about taking his medication for it. He nearly died twice. During the time of these two incidents he was feeling convicted to re-establish his relationship with the Lord. He had been in a church that was not so great and had pushed him away. He began searching for a church. Several churches he attended had members who had attempted healings on him. They all failed...he tells me that he never really felt the presence of the Lord in those places anyway.

One day he stopped to help a man having troubles (car or something...I really don't remember this part clearly)...the man began talking to him and before he left invited him to their church that Sunday. My brother-in-law decided to go. He said that immediately when he walked into that church he felt a difference...He knew Jesus' presence was there. This man called him, specifically, forward to be healed and he went. The close-calls with death had scared him some...so at this time he WAS taking his medicine. After that service though...he kept getting sick. After a few times of this he KNEW it was the medicine making him sick. He quit taking it and went to the doctor...the medicine was making him sick and the doctor kept asking him why he was even taking it. The doctor told him he had no sign of diabetes whatsoever...no sign that he had even ever had it. It has been over fifteen years now and he has not since had one symptom or sign of diabetes.

My grandfather is another example...an even more recent one. I'm not going to detail this one...but he had a condition that the doctor's were afraid to even do anything with...someone lay hands on him, and prayed over him...and it was immediately gone. This happened right in the hospital. It has never come back and the doctor's canNOT figure it out.

The following are not healings, but I hope they will serve to testify that God works in the same ways that He always has...even today...

This last fall the Lord had given a message to me that I was to deliver to a specific group of people. Many things went wrong in trying to meet with them which kept delaying it...I finally had to leave to a job away from town I'd taken helping with harvest. I now thought this meeting was never going to happen.

One day, a few weeks into the job it became obvious someone else did NOT want this message delivered. A "really strange" set of circumstances put me in a position where I was actually run over by a 3.5 ton dozer tractor. The right wheels actually ran right over me. I had been blinded by dirt at the time and had no clue what was going on. I had one moment of sheer panic, then simply said "please Lord help me". I clearly heard Him say back "not to fear, He was with me".

I clearly felt the weight of the thing on me, and yet I emerged from the other side with nothing to show for it but a tire mark on the heal of my boot and about six truck drivers standing with their jaws dropped to the ground.

Two days later it rained so we couldn't work...I was able to travel back home and meet with the group that night.

A few years before that I was out with some friends of mine. They ended up taking us to a house in a very, very questionable part of the city. We were there hanging out with a group of people...I was actually pretty sick at the time and hadn't wanted to go anywhere...did not want to be there at all. Well...a gang of five guys busted into the very room I was in...started shoving people to the wall, putting guns to their heads. They were between me and all the doors out of the room. Again...I panicked and cried to the Lord "what do I do?" He answered me by telling me to trust Him...and simply get up and walk out the door.

I did...I actually had to shove through two of the guys to get by...but they did nothing. I was looking one right in the eyes the whole time I walked out and what I saw was this...anger at first at seeing me pay them no mind...which immediately turned to fear....because he could not move. None of them could move a hair...the whole scene just froze with them staring at me and me at the one as I went by and out the door.

I was once with a friend of mine...a girl...who had recently broken up with a very violent guy. She was trying to stay away from him...but his obsession always drove him to her. When she would refuse his attention and try to leave he would beat her. We were at a friend's house and this guy showed up.

This guy was easily two or three times my size. He immediately started the same old things with the girl and she ran out of the house. He went after her...his own brother went after them both. His brother tried to stop him from getting to her and he literally beat the snot out of his own brother for trying to stop him. While that was going on she ran back into the house. I started to go in and he came running around the corner to the door as well. I knew he was going to hurt her and could not let him in. I got to the door first and tried to hold the handle so he couldn't get it...planning to talk some sense into him. Well...his fist hit me first and knocked me off the porch. He went in...I jumped up and went in after him. I told him I couldn't let him hurt her...he just grabbed me by my shirt and literally threw me at the door. Just so happened someone opened the door to come in as I was flying at it and I went out, across the porch, over the rail of the porch and hit a chain link fence then the ground. I stood up just as he came back out. He stood on the porch hollering stuff at me and asked if I wanted more. Again...I asked the Lord for help and he answered saying that He was with me.

The most unbelievable thing happened in the next moment...the entire roof of the porch broke away from the house and crashed down on the guy. We ended up taking him to the hospital.

The ONLY reason I'm telling you these things is to testify to the power of the Lord working, just as it always has, right now. We are believers in Him and His word and these things should not surprise us. As believers we should know His power.

For the OP its obvious you do because you do not buy into these "halfway" and petty things. Bless you for that...they soooo undervalue the things that God can and will REALLY do. But I have to testify to you that He works today just as He has always worked.

Why do we not see it on the news? None of those were on the news. There could be countless reasons...but foremost...come on...do you really think ANYTHING that would point to God would show up on our news?

 

[NewSong]

Are you sure about that? I remember one time a friend of mine had problems with the laughing "revival." We went to a special service and someone laughed for almost 2 hours non-stop. My friend said to me (by the way the friend was not saved at that time) that has to be GOD! I was rather surprised to hear someone say that because I had serious doubts myself. So, I said to her,"Why does that have to be God?" Her reply astounded me in her simplistic way she said ---"NO ONE COULD LAUGH THAT LONG without any air unless God done it." I realized at that point what I was criticizing inside of myself GOD used to bring my friend Mindy to HIM! I was so busy being spiritual and proper and religious and having every i dotted and every T crossed that I never thought about something so simple as laughing as hard and long as that without quitting.

God doesn't do things the way I expect Him to! His ways are higher and HIS thoughts are not my thoughts... I may think these things are a bit bizarre and tend to even agree with you a little but I don't toss the baby out with the bathwater.

I have seen too much for me to deny Christ working and whether they are from God or not. I have seen GOD use them to save friends, family, and change lives. That is my personal experience!

Interesting how we view GOD until there is a revelation in our lives of how HE does do things. I am every bit as reserved about some of these issues you posted and questsion them and put it to test on individual basis but I cannot make a blank statement that God didn't do these things.

I don't seek these things and have no desisre for most of them and yet if GOD chooses to work in my life by HIS Spirit that way then so be it.

I hope and pray that you understand my moment of defense here is because God has allowed me some balance in my life. More balance than I dreamed I would ever see.

 

[KleinerApfel]

Wow.

I won't even try to argue with your OP.

On another thread here I just saw you say you don't feel connected to us. Don't you think a tirade like this might have something to do with that? Maybe we're a little hesitant to get to know you in case you bite out heads off? :o

Do you want to have a calm, friendly discussion that builds the fellowship you hoped to find here, or just blast us out because we're "wrong"?

 

[ARBITER01]

I feel 3/4's of what you say is pretty much spot on X, and anything that you may disagree with that involves the healing aspect in Christianity, you can see put forth to us in the examples that Jesus gave us.

I won't really try to persuade you differently at the moment, but I will ask that you try to see how Jesus did things. Just because no one at the moment is really seems to be doing things right by the book when we watch TV and such, doesn't mean that there isn't a correct structure placed before us by GOD in HIS scriptures to follow, it is just that most modern day folks have missed the mark about doing the structured things correctly, IE walking worthy of their calling, that is really what it amounts to.

GOD will give you more interest in these things, I have no doubt in that, just be careful what you may turn off, it is easy to miss something important at times.

 

[map4]

I understand where you are coming from...and I understand that all you see on tv and whatnot is these rubbish healings. I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments about that.

However...I can personally attest otherwise to what you say about complete healings of God "in modern times" by man's hand.

My brother-in-law for one...had diabetes. He was irresponsible and stubborn about taking his medication for it. He nearly died twice. During the time of these two incidents he was feeling convicted to re-establish his relationship with the Lord. He had been in a church that was not so great and had pushed him away. He began searching for a church. Several churches he attended had members who had attempted healings on him. They all failed...he tells me that he never really felt the presence of the Lord in those places anyway.

One day he stopped to help a man having troubles (car or something...I really don't remember this part clearly)...the man began talking to him and before he left invited him to their church that Sunday. My brother-in-law decided to go. He said that immediately when he walked into that church he felt a difference...He knew Jesus' presence was there. This man called him, specifically, forward to be healed and he went. The close-calls with death had scared him some...so at this time he WAS taking his medicine. After that service though...he kept getting sick. After a few times of this he KNEW it was the medicine making him sick. He quit taking it and went to the doctor...the medicine was making him sick and the doctor kept asking him why he was even taking it. The doctor told him he had no sign of diabetes whatsoever...no sign that he had even ever had it. It has been over fifteen years now and he has not since had one symptom or sign of diabetes.

My grandfather is another example...an even more recent one. I'm not going to detail this one...but he had a condition that the doctor's were afraid to even do anything with...someone lay hands on him, and prayed over him...and it was immediately gone. This happened right in the hospital. It has never come back and the doctor's canNOT figure it out.

The following are not healings, but I hope they will serve to testify that God works in the same ways that He always has...even today...

This last fall the Lord had given a message to me that I was to deliver to a specific group of people. Many things went wrong in trying to meet with them which kept delaying it...I finally had to leave to a job away from town I'd taken helping with harvest. I now thought this meeting was never going to happen.

One day, a few weeks into the job it became obvious someone else did NOT want this message delivered. A "really strange" set of circumstances put me in a position where I was actually run over by a 3.5 ton dozer tractor. The right wheels actually ran right over me. I had been blinded by dirt at the time and had no clue what was going on. I had one moment of sheer panic, then simply said "please Lord help me". I clearly heard Him say back "not to fear, He was with me".

I clearly felt the weight of the thing on me, and yet I emerged from the other side with nothing to show for it but a tire mark on the heal of my boot and about six truck drivers standing with their jaws dropped to the ground.

Two days later it rained so we couldn't work...I was able to travel back home and meet with the group that night.

A few years before that I was out with some friends of mine. They ended up taking us to a house in a very, very questionable part of the city. We were there hanging out with a group of people...I was actually pretty sick at the time and hadn't wanted to go anywhere...did not want to be there at all. Well...a gang of five guys busted into the very room I was in...started shoving people to the wall, putting guns to their heads. They were between me and all the doors out of the room. Again...I panicked and cried to the Lord "what do I do?" He answered me by telling me to trust Him...and simply get up and walk out the door.

I did...I actually had to shove through two of the guys to get by...but they did nothing. I was looking one right in the eyes the whole time I walked out and what I saw was this...anger at first at seeing me pay them no mind...which immediately turned to fear....because he could not move. None of them could move a hair...the whole scene just froze with them staring at me and me at the one as I went by and out the door.

I was once with a friend of mine...a girl...who had recently broken up with a very violent guy. She was trying to stay away from him...but his obsession always drove him to her. When she would refuse his attention and try to leave he would beat her. We were at a friend's house and this guy showed up.

This guy was easily two or three times my size. He immediately started the same old things with the girl and she ran out of the house. He went after her...his own brother went after them both. His brother tried to stop him from getting to her and he literally beat the snot out of his own brother for trying to stop him. While that was going on she ran back into the house. I started to go in and he came running around the corner to the door as well. I knew he was going to hurt her and could not let him in. I got to the door first and tried to hold the handle so he couldn't get it...planning to talk some sense into him. Well...his fist hit me first and knocked me off the porch. He went in...I jumped up and went in after him. I told him I couldn't let him hurt her...he just grabbed me by my shirt and literally threw me at the door. Just so happened someone opened the door to come in as I was flying at it and I went out, across the porch, over the rail of the porch and hit a chain link fence then the ground. I stood up just as he came back out. He stood on the porch hollering stuff at me and asked if I wanted more. Again...I asked the Lord for help and he answered saying that He was with me.

The most unbelievable thing happened in the next moment...the entire roof of the porch broke away from the house and crashed down on the guy. We ended up taking him to the hospital.

The ONLY reason I'm telling you these things is to testify to the power of the Lord working, just as it always has, right now. We are believers in Him and His word and these things should not surprise us. As believers we should know His power.

For the OP its obvious you do because you do not buy into these "halfway" and petty things. Bless you for that...they soooo undervalue the things that God can and will REALLY do. But I have to testify to you that He works today just as He has always worked.

Why do we not see it on the news? None of those were on the news. There could be countless reasons...but foremost...come on...do you really think ANYTHING that would point to God would show up on our news?

This is a great testimony. Thanks for sharing it.

People need to see what happens to many in our everyday walk with Him.
But, what are we to do? Run to the TV news stations everytime something like this happens? You're right...most would laugh us out of the building.
And, how many of us have our own TV ministry or radio ministry to share these things with others?
The vast majority of Christians and non-Christians are turned off by what they see on Christian TV.
Which is why, imo, it is so needful for us to share these things with the people in "our world". Most of us are not called to the mission fields, or to have a radio/TV ministry. But, we can reach those in our sphere of influence. Each person doing that, will make a difference in the world.

Stories like the ones you shared, real life situations that many of us face, will do more, imo, for reaching people than a lot of what is on TV.

 

[probinson]

Are you sure about that? I remember one time a friend of mine had problems with the laughing "revival." We went to a special service and someone laughed for almost 2 hours non-stop. My friend said to me (by the way the friend was not saved at that time) that has to be GOD! I was rather surprised to hear someone say that because I had serious doubts myself. So, I said to her,"Why does that have to be God?" Her reply astounded me in her simplistic way she said ---"NO ONE COULD LAUGH THAT LONG without any air unless God done it." I realized at that point what I was criticizing inside of myself GOD used to bring my friend Mindy to HIM! I was so busy being spiritual and proper and religious and having every i dotted and every T crossed that I never thought about something so simple as laughing as hard and long as that without quitting.

God doesn't do things the way I expect Him to! His ways are higher and HIS thoughts are not my thoughts... I may think these things are a bit bizarre and tend to even agree with you a little but I don't toss the baby out with the bathwater.

I have seen too much for me to deny Christ working and whether they are from God or not. I have seen GOD use them to save friends, family, and change lives. That is my personal experience!

Interesting how we view GOD until there is a revelation in our lives of how HE does do things. I am every bit as reserved about some of these issues you posted and questsion them and put it to test on individual basis but I cannot make a blank statement that God didn't do these things.

I don't seek these things and have no desisre for most of them and yet if GOD chooses to work in my life by HIS Spirit that way then so be it.

I hope and pray that you understand my moment of defense here is because God has allowed me some balance in my life. More balance than I dreamed I would ever see.

Great post!

 

[Faithful Love]

Matthew:
10:34 `Ye may not suppose that I came to put peace on the earth; I did not come to put peace, but a sword;

10:35 for I came to set a man at variance against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law,

10:36 and the enemies of a man are those of his household.

People today often confuse "love" with "peace". When they say Jesus' ministry was one of love they present it as something akin to the '70's lovey dubby peace movement...be nice, be politically correct, most importantly "do not offend".

Love is not peace. Love is simply wanting what is best for another...at times, no matter the cost to yourself.

To present truth is the highest form of love...and in THIS is the ministry of love that Jesus brought.

The sword in this verse is truth...though truth is presented through love it is "a sword". Depending on how it is accepted by the one receiving...it will often cut, most often to the heart. It hurts, it offends, it divides when it is not seen for what it is and accepted.

AMEN!!!!

 

[Faithful Love]

Immersion,

I understand your frustration, but please do not throw out the baby with the bathwater!

Jesus Himself told us to do the things He did, so I disagree that God does not give us the power to heal, raise from the dead, etc.

John 14:12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."

 

[heron]

This is a great testimony. Thanks for sharing it.

People need to see what happens to many in our everyday walk with Him.

Yes, thanks, Seige. Glad you were safe!

I would guess that what Immersion is reacting to is not the acts themselves, but all the motives that accompany these acts.


1. When a prophetic or healing leader comes to town, everyone gets excited and doesn't want to miss the meetings. We all catch ourselves with that temptation of groupie-ness. Many people secretly wish that the prophet will call them out and speak over them.

These reactions come in different levels of intensity for each person, but almost everyone gets at least a twinge of it.

We are people who have daily communion with God and already hear from Him. Believers are already entrusted with using these gifts wherever they go.

While it's not a totally wrong or totally selfish motive to want to get this special attention or word, seeking out a known prophet/healer takes the responsibility to heal and transform lives out of our hands, and into the hands of a professional.

It may heal and transform us, but can also keep us from growing to mature people who proactively exercise these gifts in our daily lives. (Yes, seeing someone do it well can help, and boost faith.)


2. A lot of people wince at the self-based messages of claiming wealth. It is not that wealth is bad in itself, but this mentality points out selfishness in the scenario. Listeners focus on what they can get out of the religion, how fast they can gain, whether they followed all the right steps to get God's blessing.

In a sense, looking for angels and gold dust takes on that same form. Angels and gold dust are just things that exist, that are rare to us and a great encouragement, and hold value to us. But to seek after them can easily take on that same sort of adrenaline addiction, desire to attain something higher, desire to reach new levels.

Some of it is just a natural desire to explore, and to continually learn new things. Some is a desire to know more about God, and grow closer to Him. But we also need to search our hearts to make sure these motives are as pure as we think they are.


3. What are we doing for others? A healing service can wipe out ten years of suffering in an instant. But quality of life might return to what was there before.

Healing is a wonderful thing. But is the source of the infirmity always dealth with? God will often heal emotional scars at the same time, but people might still be left with friends who judged how the ailment came about, family members that didn't help in their recoveries, members who didn't bring meals, and nobody to give them a hug.

I am bringing this up to try to reword what the OP was frustrated over, that isn't making sense to people. I have nothing against miraculous healing.

What makes people impose suffering on themselves intentionally, like alcoholism or suicide? Anger, dejection, suffering abuse, lack, loneliness, despair, feeling trapped, not seeing value in their lives.... Are Christians responding to these needs and worries in others, or just blaming the symptoms?

The mindset I see in churches that get excited over prophets and healers, is that if we take these messed-up lives to the healer, there's a chance everything will be okay. They don't need to spend time with people who are annoying or depressed or needing support -- they can just hand them over to a quick-fixer.

Getting in the trenches for Christ isn't just interceding, getting totally absorbed in God, reading the deepest books. A member here recently was talking about a new believer they'd asked to live with them. That is about as trenchy an act as I can imagine.

I am sorry this comes across as an insult, because I just see it as a tendency, and all churches have their own errors of tendencies. But I have seen time after time, that people leave highly Charismatic churches because the general attitude of the congregation and staff is uncaring. So much emphasis is put on the spiritual, or supernatural, that members devalue human needs. So many aspirations are directed toward being experts at spiritual things, that people start saying things like "he shouldn't work the sound board... he's not very spiritual."

They forget to bring meals, to sit down and listen, to help load the moving van. Spiritual balance.


4. It is very scriptural to heal and prophesy. It is also very scriptural for God to deliver a message through a person, about the corruption that He sees.

A few scriptural instances where God saw through the motives of prophets and believers:

Isaiah 30:8-17

Woe to rebellious sons....who are walking to go down to Egypt, but have not asked at My mouth...

Every one is ashamed over a people who do not profit them; they are not for a help, and not for profiting, but for a shame; yea, also for a reproach.

who say... to visioners, speak smooth things to us; have a vision of trifles.

For so says the Lord Jehovah ...In returning and rest you shall be saved; and in quietness and hope shall be your strength. But you were not willing. For you said, No! ... We will ride on swift ones. On account of this, those who pursue you shall be swift.

...And so Jehovah waits to be gracious to you. And for this He is exalted to have mercy on you.

And the Lord gives you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction; but your teachers shall not be hidden any more; but your eyes shall be able to see your teachers.


Micah 2:7
Is it being said, O house of Jacob: 'Is the Spirit of the LORD impatient? Are these His doings?' Do not My words do good To the one walking uprightly?If a man walking after wind and falsehood had toldlies and said, 'I will speak out to you concerning wine and liquor,' He would be spokesman to thispeople.


Neh 6:14
Remember, O my God, Tobiah and Sanballat according to these works of theirs, and also Noadiah the prophetess and the rest of the prophets who were trying to frighten me.

1Ki 22:8
The king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, "There is yet one man by whom we may inquire of the Lord, but I hate him, because he does not prophesy good concerning me, but evil.
The verses above, like the OP, were not casting judgment on the act of prophecy, but on how it was used.


​

 

[map4]

Heron,
There is much truth in what you posted!

 

[SharonL]

I guess people like things to be orderly, more like in Jesus' time...
Wonder what would have been said if these were seen today.
...Jesus spit in the mud and placed it on the eyes.
...Jesus spit on the tongue for healing
...Johna out of the whales mouth
...A person was told to lay on one side for a year
...A hand writing on the wall by itself
...Coins taken out of the mouth of a fish for taxes
...Feeding 5,000 from a boys lunch
...Walking on water
...Making storms to die down
...raising the dead
...defending a woman of the night by turning on the accusers to cast the first stone
...turning water into wine
...Casting out demons
...God worked through deciples all the time - it is no different with man today
... I could go on and on but - this was Jesus you say -
Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever - he works through anyone he choses - even donkeys, rocks, clouds, and on and on.

Maybe we don't like the ways things are done and I had my own doubts to start with - but would people go see it if it was just hum-drum boring run of the mill - God is using this to send the healings all over the world. What matters the means by which it is delivered as long as it brings in the Harvest.

We have to trust in the Holy Spirit within us as to what is right and what is wrong and not our heads and what we might think is not the way God would act.