God will justify the circumcised BY faith and the uncircumcised THROUGH faith

[tonychanyt]

εἴπερ εἷς ὁ Θεός, ὃς δικαιώσει περιτομὴν ἐκ πίστεως καὶ ἀκροβυστίαν διὰ τῆς πίστεως.

Grammatically, there are differences between the two expressions:

1. ἐκ points to the source, while διὰ indicates the channel from the source
2. without the article, it is the quality of faith, while with τῆς, faith is more concrete.

Theologically, however, there are no differences between these two expressions. Paul used these two expressions in a parallelism to reinforce each other. God will justify everyone by faith and through faith.

NIV Hebrews 11:

4a By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By [G1223 διὰ] faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.

English Standard Version:

By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks.

Now, Berean Literal Bible, Rom 3:

21 But now apart from Law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, being borne witness to by the Law and the Prophets. 22 And the righteousness of God is through faith from Jesus Christ toward all those believing.

The preposition "from" is not in the Greek. The phrase "faith from Jesus" is expressed by genitive apposition to identify faith with Jesus. My paraphrase:

the righteousness of God through faith (i.e., Jesus Christ) toward all those believing

Jesus is the source and the channel of faith.

For there is no distinction,

It does not matter whether you are a Jew or a Gentile.

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation through faith in His blood,

Jesus' blood is the channel of faith.

30 since indeed God is the One who will justify the circumcision by faith and the uncircumcision through the same faith.

God will justify the Jews and Gentiles by faith (i.e., Jesus, the object and source of faith) through his blood (the channel of faith).

See also What about people of other cultures, ancient Chinese, ancient Australians, Islamic, Hindu, etc?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Nice!

Grammatically, there are differences between the two expressions:

1. ἐκ points to the source, while διὰ indicates the channel from the source
2. without the article, it is the quality of faith, while with τῆς, faith is more concrete.

Theologically, however, there are no differences between these two expressions. Paul used these two expressions in a parallelism to reinforce each other. God will justify everyone by faith and through faith.

NIV Hebrews 11:


English Standard Version:


Now, Berean Literal Bible, Rom 3:


The preposition "from" is not in the Greek. The phrase "faith from Jesus" is expressed by genitive apposition to identify faith with Jesus. My paraphrase:


Jesus is the source and the channel of faith.


It does not matter whether you are a Jew or a Gentile.


Jesus' blood is the channel of faith.


God will justify the Jews and Gentiles by faith (i.e., Jesus, the object and source of faith) through his blood (the channel of faith).

See also What about people of other cultures, ancient Chinese, ancient Australians, Islamic, Hindu, etc?

A tangent, here, perhaps, but as usual my mind goes other places: You said, "God will justify everyone by faith and through faith." While I think that by your statement you did not mean that "everyone" that ever will have lived will be justified, but rather, that if anyone is to be justified, this is how it will happen.

This use of the all-encompassing expressions is common even in English, and certainly in the Greek and other languages. Of course, in a sense, it can sometimes means absolutely all who ever will have lived, but not necessarily in the grammatical sense of who will be (in the context of this thread) justified, but HOW anyone at all that will have been justified is justified.

And, as far as I know, in the cases where this is the proper use of "everyone" and such, the context will bear it out.

 

[TahitiRun]

Grammatically, there are differences between the two expressions:

1. ἐκ points to the source, while διὰ indicates the channel from the source
2. without the article, it is the quality of faith, while with τῆς, faith is more concrete.

Theologically, however, there are no differences between these two expressions. Paul used these two expressions in a parallelism to reinforce each other. God will justify everyone by faith and through faith.

I believe there are not only grammatical differences but also theological implications too. Here is the Greek text of Rom 3:30 under review:

Rom 3:30 ἐπείπερ εἷς ὁ Θεός ὃς δικαιώσει περιτομὴν ἐκ πίστεως καὶ ἀκροβυστίαν διὰ τῆς πίστεως.

If we look more closely at the underlined prepositions being used by Paul, we see the following:

1. ἐκ + (ie: followed by) the noun πίστεως in the genitive case. This denotes motion "out of faith” or "from faith".

2. διὰ + the noun πίστεως also in the genitive case. This denotes motion "through the faith”. Faith here taking the article.

Also of note, faith taken with or without the article isn’t really about the quality of our faith, but rather what “the faith” or that "particular faith" represents/signifies to us in context. Here in Rom 3:30, "through the faith" is made definite.

Paul often uses phrases such as “by the faith” or “through the faith” when speaking of a particular faith he has in mind. Usually it’s with reference to the faith of Christ, representing His faithfulness in going to the cross to die for our sins, called “the good news” or "the Gospel", if you will.

Here are some examples of the phrase "through the faith" that are more easily recognized when using literal translations of the Greek text:

Rom 3:22 and the righteousness of God is through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, —for there is no difference,

Rom 3:25 whom God did set forth a mercy seat, through the faith in his blood, for the shewing forth of His righteousness, because of the passing over of the bygone sins in the forbearance of God—

Rom 3:31 Law then do we make useless through the faith? let it not be! yea, we do establish law.

Gal 2:16 having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in Christ Jesus did believe, that we might be declared righteous by the faith of Christ, and not by works of law, wherefore declared righteous by works of law shall be no flesh.'

Gal 3:14 that to the nations the blessing of Abraham may come in Christ Jesus, that the promise of the Spirit we may receive through the faith.

Gal 3:26 for ye are all sons of God through the faith in Christ Jesus,

Eph 3:12 in whom we have the freedom and the access in confidence through the faith of him,

Eph 3:17 that the Christ may dwell through the faith in your hearts, in love having been rooted and founded,

Col 2:12 being buried with him in the baptism, in which also ye rose with him through the faith of the working of God, who did raise him out of the dead.

Unfortunately, these distinctions are often lost in the translations we often read from.

 

[tonychanyt]

There are differences between the two usages linguistically and grammatically. However, theologically, what are the differences in terms of the overall Christian systematic theology?

 

[TahitiRun]

Nice!

A tangent, here, perhaps, but as usual my mind goes other places: You said, "God will justify everyone by faith and through faith." While I think that by your statement you did not mean that "everyone" that ever will have lived will be justified, but rather, that if anyone is to be justified, this is how it will happen.

This use of the all-encompassing expressions is common even in English, and certainly in the Greek and other languages. Of course, in a sense, it can sometimes means absolutely all who ever will have lived, but not necessarily in the grammatical sense of who will be (in the context of this thread) justified, but HOW anyone at all that will have been justified is justified.

And, as far as I know, in the cases where this is the proper use of "everyone" and such, the context will bear it out.

The truth of the matter is that everyone, without exception, has already been justified, that is: "declared righteous" from sin, by and through the death of Christ. And it happened 2,000 years ago. It's finished. It's a done deal. And the declaration has already been made to us through the resurrection of Jesus.

When Jesus was crucified, we were all "in Him" (Col 1:16), for in Him "we live move and have our being" (Act 17:28). And he who has died has been "declared righteous from the sin", Gk: δεδικαίωται ἀπὸ τῆς ἁμαρτίας· Here it is:

Rom 6:6 this knowing, that our old man was crucified with him , that the body of the sin may be made useless, for our no longer serving the sin;
Rom 6:7 for he who hath died hath been declared righteous from the sin.
Rom 6:8 And if we died with Christ, we believe that we also shall live with him,

Believe it my friend.

 

[tonychanyt]

The truth of the matter is that everyone, without exception, has already been justified

See Is universalism true? and follow up there

 

[TahitiRun]

There are differences between the two usages linguistically and grammatically. However, theologically, what are the differences in terms of the overall Christian systematic theology?

The theological differences usually discussed are between the Gospel of the Kingdom (that some refer to as a works based salvation), proclaimed by Jesus to the Jews vs the Gospel of Grace (usually considered grace based salvation without works), proclaimed by Paul to the Gentiles.

Some believe they're the same Gospel viewed from different perspectives, while other's see important distinctions between the two that cannot and should not be ignored.

There are entire websites devoted to the subject so I won't belabor it here.

 

[tonychanyt]

The theological differences usually discussed are between the Gospel of the Kingdom (that some refer to as a works based salvation), proclaimed by Jesus to the Jews vs the Gospel of Grace (usually considered grace based salvation without works), proclaimed by Paul to the Gentiles.

So which is which? We are talking about "by" and "through".

 

[TahitiRun]

So which is which? We are talking about "by" and "through".

By faith (faith with the genitive case, ie: possession of, their faith) for the Jews

and

Through the faith (ie: the Gospel, the faithfulness of Christ, His faith) for the Gentiles.

 

[tonychanyt]

By faith (faith with the genitive case, ie: possession of) for the Jews

and

Through the faith (ie: the Gospel, the faithfulness of Christ, His faith) for the Gentiles.

verse?

 

[TahitiRun]

verse?

Rom 3:30

 

[tonychanyt]

Rom 3:30

Thanks for the reference. This is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:

1. Display and indent the quoted text.
2. Selectively bold the relevant keywords that are important to your point. There is no need to bold the entire sentence. Have a laser-sharp focus.
3. Be concise and precise to the point. No need to quote the whole paragraph.

I do this for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee it will sharpen your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it.

 

[Mark Quayle]

The truth of the matter is that everyone, without exception, has already been justified, that is: "declared righteous" from sin, by and through the death of Christ. And it happened 2,000 years ago. It's finished. It's a done deal. And the declaration has already been made to us through the resurrection of Jesus.

When Jesus was crucified, we were all "in Him" (Col 1:16), for in Him "we live move and have our being" (Act 17:28). And he who has died has been "declared righteous from the sin", Gk: δεδικαίωται ἀπὸ τῆς ἁμαρτίας· Here it is:

Rom 6:6 this knowing, that our old man was crucified with him , that the body of the sin may be made useless, for our no longer serving the sin;
Rom 6:7 for he who hath died hath been declared righteous from the sin.
Rom 6:8 And if we died with Christ, we believe that we also shall live with him,

Believe it my friend.

Why should I believe your construction? It is yours, and not itself Scripture, but your assembling of what you read Scripture to say. You will have a lot of other Scripture to explain away, before convincing me.

 

[TahitiRun]

Why should I believe your construction? It is yours, and not itself Scripture, but your assembling of what you read Scripture to say. You will have a lot of other Scripture to explain away, before convincing me.

"Believe it my friend."

The term "it" was with reference to the scriptures quoted. That's what I was asking you to believe. Not my comments, but rather the scriptures quoted.

 

[TahitiRun]

It's weird but my browser isn't letting me see full responses. Are other's having this same issue and is there a setting that will correct this?

 

[Mark Quayle]

"Believe it my friend."

The term "it" was with reference to the scriptures quoted. That's what I was asking you to believe. Not my comments, but rather the scriptures quoted.

Yeah, see "plural vs singular article"

I believe the scriptures. A mere person, no, not so much...

 

[TahitiRun]

Yeah, see "plural vs singular article"

I believe the scriptures. A mere person, no, not so much...

I'm still not following your responses. plural vs singular article????..... A mere person, no, not so much???...

I used the pronoun "it" (yes, it's singular) with reference to "scriptures" (pl)...lol. Is this what you're talking about?

Let me re-post "it" (no pun intended) again, and if you will, highlight the part you would like to discuss.


"And he who has died has been "declared righteous from the sin", Gk: δεδικαίωται ἀπὸ τῆς ἁμαρτίας· Here it is:

Rom 6:6 this knowing, that our old man was crucified with him , that the body of the sin may be made useless, for our no longer serving the sin;
Rom 6:7 for he who hath died hath been declared righteous from the sin.
Rom 6:8 And if we died with Christ, we believe that we also shall live with him,

Believe it my friend."


Thanks.

 

[TahitiRun]

Thanks for the reference. This is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:

You're welcome. Seriously though, this is an open forum, not a lecture hall. I like to keep everything "flush left".