God wants the best for His kids...

[FrankFaith]

Can we agree, in general, that God wants the best for His kids--and that THE BEST would actually be PERFECTION in every way (health, success, education, etc.)?

If we can agree on that, can we then say that, given the correct circumstances, we should be able to walk in the perfection God wants for us...though these specific correct circumstances will never exist while we're in this physical body because we have already sinned and messed things up as far as these perfect circumstances go--in fact, we were born into sin, so we'd need a miracle (supernatural intervention) as far as this goes anyway.

So, in short, can we agree that we all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God?

That said, if your answer is, "Yes!"...

Enter the existance of a single instance of a supernatural healing.

What just happened? Why did this particular supernatural healing take place?

1. Does scripture give us any clue as to why this happened, under the New Covenant of which we are beneficieries, whatsoever?

2. Is scripture clear as to why this supernatural healing has taken place?

3. Is scripture clear as to why others do not receive needed supernatural healings?

Please stick to the OP and please do NOT throw around "WoF" or other descriptive acronyms as this OP has taken no WoF stance whatsoever (we ALL agree that supernatural healings take place).

Please direct your responses as answers to the three numbered questions above; and as a result of our previous agreement (above), if, in fact, we were in agreement.

*I was going to ask that moderators delete all responses that do not seek to answer the three questions above if they were intended to obstruct and confuse this simple line of questions but then those who would choose to obstruct and confuse in this manner would just claim that that is not what they were doing! So, YOU be the judge--if someone obstructs or confuses my 3 simple questions, YOU decide what the Truth is.

 

[FrankFaith]

Not with a 10-foot pole, I see...

This should speak volumes (this lack of oppositional posts) to those who wonder about whether God wants them to walk in their healing/wholness.

God is GOOD!

 

[Hadron]

I know what you're saying Frank, but some will not agree to this, saying that His best includes making us low, so that we can learn the hard way to be humble.

Keep on keepin' on.

 

[psalms 91]

The key to walking in the fullness is walking in Gods perfect will. While we all fall short we can be covered by the blood of Jesus and we have the Holy Spirit to set us straight if we but listen. God loves us and Gods kingdomis perfect and we have the kingdom of God within us and by Jesus example to us and what He commanded us as believers to do we know that His kingdom can be manifested in the physical. Yes He wants His best for us. I believe that Deut Chapter 28 gives us many clues.

 

[JimfromOhio]

God take care of us in "eternal" sense more than "temporary" sense:
Hebrews 11:39-40 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

 

[Strong in Him]

Can we agree, in general, that God wants the best for His kids--

Haven't thought about the post in great detail, but my response to this is that God wants us to know him and have a relationship with him. He wants us to know that we have every spiritual blessing in Christ; that nothing in this world, or our little worlds, can seperate us from his love; that we know that we know that we can trust him and lean on him completely. How this is best achieved - whether through problems that refine our faith and teach us, or by many material blessings that cause us to be thankful - is entirely up to him. I say he can, and does, use both. I suspect others will disagree with this view.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Haven't thought about the post in great detail, but my response to this is that God wants us to know him and have a relationship with him. He wants us to know that we have every spiritual blessing in Christ; that nothing in this world, or our little worlds, can seperate us from his love; that we know that we know that we can trust him and lean on him completely. How this is best achieved - whether through problems that refine our faith and teach us, or by many material blessings that cause us to be thankful - is entirely up to him. I say he can, and does, use both. I suspect others will disagree with this view.

I like that quote you made: "How this is best achieved - whether through problems that refine our faith and teach us, or by many material blessings that cause us to be thankful - is entirely up to him."

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Strong in Him again.

 

[FrankFaith]

Haven't thought about the post in great detail, but my response to this is that God wants us to know him and have a relationship with him. He wants us to know that we have every spiritual blessing in Christ; that nothing in this world, or our little worlds, can seperate us from his love; that we know that we know that we can trust him and lean on him completely. How this is best achieved - whether through problems that refine our faith and teach us, or by many material blessings that cause us to be thankful - is entirely up to him. I say he can, and does, use both. I suspect others will disagree with this view.

The problem with this line of thinking is that yuo make what I've said, what we have agreed upon, null and void:

Can we agree, in general, that God wants the best for His kids--and that THE BEST would actually be PERFECTION in every way (health, success, education, etc.)?


If we can agree on that, can we then say that, given the correct circumstances, we should be able to walk in the perfection God wants for us...though these specific correct circumstances will never exist while we're in this physical body because we have already sinned and messed things up as far as these perfect circumstances go--in fact, we were born into sin, so we'd need a miracle (supernatural intervention) as far as this goes anyway..."

So, either we agree, or we do not agree...and if we do not agree, please ask yourself why we do not agree, then answer questions 1, 2 and 3.

 

[JimfromOhio]

1. Does scripture give us any clue as to why this happened, under the New Covenant of which we are beneficieries, whatsoever?

I am going to quote what I said in another thread similar to this:

God is eternal, not temporal therefore His promises are ETERNAL. Psalm 16:11You have made known to me the path of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand. Psalm 21:6 Surely you have granted him eternal blessings and made him glad with the joy of your presence. Psalm 119:89 [ l Lamedh ] Your word, O LORD, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens. Isaiah 26:4 Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal. John 6:27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval." John 12:25 The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 2 Thessalonians 2:16 May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope. Hebrews 9:15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant. Hebrews 13:20 May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep. 1 John 2:25 And this is what he promised us—even eternal life. Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

In John 14:1-6, Jesus tried to comfort the disciples by saying, "I want you to trust these three things: My presence, My promises, and My Person. If you really trust Me, you won't worry." When King David said, "I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living" in Psalm 27:13, I am reminded of another verse in another psalm "Mine eyes are unto thee, O God, the Lord; in thee is my trust" (Psalm 141:8). Christ wanted the disciples to believe in Him like David did in God. In David's darkest hour, He told him to trust Him. Just because they wouldn't be able to see Him didn't mean He wouldn't be present. When we our faith is based on sight, comfort and blessings; we are operating on the lowest level of faith. Throughout the Bible, God is repeating Himself by saying as He said in Deuteronomy 31:6, Moses told the people of Israel, "Be strong and of good courage, fear not, nor be afraid ... for the Lord thy God, he it is who doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee." The Jewish people firmly believed that God was with them. Jesus reminded the disciples of that SAME fact to us. Great Faiths of the Old Testament believed in God even though they had never seen His form nor seen their promises before they died. They trusted in His care without ever seeing a protecting hand. They had full faith in an invisible God!. In 2 Corinthians 4:18 says So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

 

[FrankFaith]

I am going to quote what I said in another thread similar to this:


In John 14:1-6, Jesus tried to comfort the disciples by saying, "I want you to trust these three things: My presence, My promises, and My Person. If you really trust Me, you won't worry." When King David said, "I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living" in Psalm 27:13, I am reminded of another verse in another psalm "Mine eyes are unto thee, O God, the Lord; in thee is my trust" (Psalm 141:8). Christ wanted the disciples to believe in Him like David did in God. In David's darkest hour, He told him to trust Him. Just because they wouldn't be able to see Him didn't mean He wouldn't be present. When we our faith is based on sight, comfort and blessings; we are operating on the lowest level of faith. Throughout the Bible, God is repeating Himself by saying as He said in Deuteronomy 31:6, Moses told the people of Israel, "Be strong and of good courage, fear not, nor be afraid ... for the Lord thy God, he it is who doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee." The Jewish people firmly believed that God was with them. Jesus reminded the disciples of that SAME fact to us. Great Faiths of the Old Testament believed in God even though they had never seen His form nor seen their promises before they died. They trusted in His care without ever seeing a protecting hand. They had full faith in an invisible God!. In 2 Corinthians 4:18 says So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

That sure sounded like you were geting at something...um...what was it, bro?? In a nutshell...

 

[JimfromOhio]

That sure sounded like you were geting at something...um...what was it, bro?? In a nutshell...

Physical healing today as temporal at our temporal timing or Physical healing as eternal at God's eternal timing. That's where I am getting at. People want it NOW while God already have established time for each of us at His Will, not our temporal time nor our faith (or works of faith).

 

[FrankFaith]

Physical healing today as temporal at our temporal timing or Physical healing as eternal at God's eternal timing. That's where I am getting at. People want it NOW while God already have established time for each of us at His Will, not our temporal time nor our faith (or works of faith).

Not so, bro.

You must descern the Lord's body if you entertain this mindset. What does that mean? Hmmm...you must descern what that means.



The now-continually-open opportunity for healing came at the same moment of the Atonement. This is what scripture tells us--the fact that some choose not to believe that this is True--or have not "descrened the Lord's body" yet--does not effect this Truth in any way, shape or form. We are under the New Covenant--and He is the same yesterday, today and forever!

 

[FrankFaith]

Not so, bro.

You must yet descern the Lord's body if you entertain this mindset. What does that mean? Hmmm...you must descern what that means.



The now-continually-open opportunity for healing came at the same moment of the Atonement. This is what scripture tells us--the fact that some choose not to believe that this is True--or have not "descrened the Lord's body" yet--does not effect this Truth in any way, shape or form. We are under the New Covenant--and He is the same yesterday, today and forever!

I sincerely hope that that did not come across rude or high-and-mighty/uppity. We are all in the same boat.

 

[JimfromOhio]

I sincerely hope that that did not come across rude or high-and-mighty/uppity. We are all in the same boat.

Well ... this all come down to an interpretation of a doctrine of atonment that you and others hold that many of us do not agree. Meaning the Atonement is Physical & temporal as well Spiritual & eternal while we view Christ's atonement is spiritual and eternal. Another interesting point is that God's promises never contradict and God's time is eternal while we view time as temporal even when those who are in full of faith never recieved the promises at the time of they physical death. Eternally, they recieved the promises.

 

[FrankFaith]

...and God's time is eternal while we view time as temporal even when those who are in full of faith never recieved the promises at the time of they physical death. Eternally, they recieved the promises.

This is where your error is. Not only can you not possibly know this, you are making an assumption that, once made, denies the Truth about healing written/recorded throughout scripture. You are believing what your eyes see as opposed to what the Word says. This is very simple to understand and very plain for all to see. By choosing this belief, you say God's Word is wrong and what my eyes see is correct. This is clear to see.

 

[JimfromOhio]

This is where your error is. Not only can you not possibly know this, you are making an assumption that, once made, denies the Truth about healing written/recorded throughout scripture. You are believing what your eyes see as opposed to what the Word says. This is very simple to understand and very plain for all to see. By choosing this belief, you say God's Word is wrong and what my eyes see is correct. This is clear to see.

My error? You also cannot possibly know this too. You are also making an assumption as well.

 

[FrankFaith]

My error? You also cannot possibly know this too. You are also making an assumption as well.

Well, if you are saying things that you do not believe, you're absolutely correct!



But if you are saying things that you believe to be true based upon what your physical eyes are seeing--in clear opposition to the written Word of God--you tell me where your faith is.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Well, if you are saying things that you do not believe, you're absolutely correct!



But if you are saying things that you believe to be true based upon what your physical eyes are seeing--in clear opposition to the written Word of God--you tell me where your faith is.

Thank you for saying about "not believing", that's what I am hearing from you and others. The Jewish people firmly believed that God was with them. Jesus reminded the disciples of that SAME fact to us. Great Faiths of the Old Testament believed in God even though they had never seen His form nor seen their promises before they died. They trusted in His care without ever seeing a protecting hand. They had full faith in an invisible God!. In 2 Corinthians 4:18 says So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

 

[Strong in Him]

The problem with this line of thinking is that yuo make what I've said, what we have agreed upon, null and void:

So, either we agree, or we do not agree...and if we do not agree, please ask yourself why we do not agree, then answer questions 1, 2 and 3.

I was stating what I believe God wants for his children. If your statement is that God's best for us obviously always means a comfortable physical life, then I do disagree. This world, and our bodies, are temporary. We are told that we are pilgrims and strangers passing through, that in this world we will have problems. Even the fittest, strongest bodies are temporary and will grow old and die one day. I do not believe that God places as much importance on these temporary things as he does on our souls and eternal relationship with him.

I may answer your questions in time, but just at the moment - 10.30pm UK time - I do not feel inclined to argue about healing. In fact I'm not sure I feel inclined to argue about it at all, it's always counterproductive.

 

[FrankFaith]

I was stating what I believe God wants for his children. If your statement is that God's best for us obviously always means a comfortable physical life, then I do disagree. This world, and our bodies, are temporary. We are told that we are pilgrims and strangers passing through, that in this world we will have problems. Even the fittest, strongest bodies are temporary and will grow old and die one day. I do not believe that God places as much importance on these temporary things as he does on our souls and eternal relationship with him.

I may answer your questions in time, but just at the moment - 10.30pm UK time - I do not feel inclined to argue about healing. In fact I'm not sure I feel inclined to argue about it at all, it's always counterproductive.

Please refer to the OP, as since you now have come upon an objection/disagreement, please state where IN THE OP your disagree rests. IOW, what part of the OP do you disagree with?