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God Sent Calamities

FlaviusAetius

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I must ask my more faithful brethren a question about God. It's been argued here repeatedly that since God is our creator he can do what He wants with us, which can include blessing us or outright killing us when He desire it and no matter how awful the death toll may seem God is still considered Good.

So I suppose my question is, if God showed His anger on humanity more like He did in the Old Testament nowadays how would people here respond? By this I don't mean using natural disasters to punish us, I mean if there was indisputable proof of God sending down a monstrous looking angel that preached the sins mankind had created before turning a urban center like say New York City into smouldering sulfur leaving no man, woman, or child alive. If this were to happen would people on this website still say it was God's right to kill us however He desires?

It isn't like this isn't going to ever happen. Revelations has God be the one responsible for turning the world ruled by the Anti-Christ into one filled with War, Death, Pestilence and unnatural disasters like Wormwood tainting a third of our drinkable water.
 

pdudgeon

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I must ask my more faithful brethren a question about God. It's been argued here repeatedly that since God is our creator he can do what He wants with us, which can include blessing us or outright killing us when He desire it and no matter how awful the death toll may seem God is still considered Good.

So I suppose my question is, if God showed His anger on humanity more like He did in the Old Testament nowadays how would people here respond? By this I don't mean using natural disasters to punish us, I mean if there was indisputable proof of God sending down a monstrous looking angel that preached the sins mankind had created before turning a urban center like say New York City into smouldering sulfur leaving no man, woman, or child alive. If this were to happen would people on this website still say it was God's right to kill us however He desires?

It isn't like this isn't going to ever happen. Revelations has God be the one responsible for turning the world ruled by the Anti-Christ into one filled with War, Death, Pestilence and unnatural disasters like Wormwood tainting a third of our drinkable water.

Have you forgotten 9-11?
Many people died that day, but there were also some who would have been there who weren't. That was God's mercy being shown in the face of disaster.

But even though many people did die that day, God's hand was still on them. It is not up to us to say how or when we will die, that is and always has been God's choice, nor is it our 'right' to question His decision. Believe me, there are worse things than dying.

What we can be grateful for are two things;
1. That He sent His Son, Jesus, to save us from eternal condemnation.
2. That He has numbered our days, and that He has perfect control of them in His hand.

You see it's not what happens to us in this life, but what is prevented from happening to us by the grace of God that should be your focus.
 
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stone

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I must ask my more faithful brethren a question about God. It's been argued here repeatedly that since God is our creator he can do what He wants with us, which can include blessing us or outright killing us when He desire it and no matter how awful the death toll may seem God is still considered Good.

So I suppose my question is, if God showed His anger on humanity more like He did in the Old Testament nowadays how would people here respond? By this I don't mean using natural disasters to punish us, I mean if there was indisputable proof of God sending down a monstrous looking angel that preached the sins mankind had created before turning a urban center like say New York City into smouldering sulfur leaving no man, woman, or child alive. If this were to happen would people on this website still say it was God's right to kill us however He desires?

It isn't like this isn't going to ever happen. Revelations has God be the one responsible for turning the world ruled by the Anti-Christ into one filled with War, Death, Pestilence and unnatural disasters like Wormwood tainting a third of our drinkable water.

maybe like terrorist enslaving and beheading christians.. and a politician keeps telling everybody that everything is fine, and a politician that never uses the word to address terrorist as terrorist and never calls them terrorist and allows a country hell bent on destroying Israel to continue production with no further actions against said country to try and disrupt said country from producing the bomb to drop on Israel..
 
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Mary's Bhoy

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C'mon stone and pdudgeon. Middle Eastern and American politics are so petty in the grand scheme of things. God once destroyed the entire human race in the Deluge with the exception of one just man and his family. Israel's existence and its politics simply doesn't register on the God-smiteness-scale. O-metre. I feel these things should also include an "o-metre" in there.

Anyway, FlaviusAetius, we're pretty "safe" until the End Times. I'm not really involved in the theology of those matters, it's simply not a branch of the faith that's ever piqued my interest. As a Catholic my primary and really only concern is the salvation of my soul. But as I was saying, we're pretty "safe" because of one thing. The Holy Mass. Yes, I once read Saint Leonard of Port Maurice's work on the Hidden Treasures of the Holy Mass, and in it he explained why there are such differences between God's actions today and those of the Old Testament. It is because of the Holy Mass, which is the sacrifice of Christ re-presented in a bloodless manner, is forever offered upon the altars of the Church and by Christ perpetually in heaven. The merits of His most brutal and agonising Passion and Death are what have kept the righteous and just anger of God at bay.

That priest down the street celebrating morning Mass? He's quite literally saving the world at that very moment. "Oh noes, Israel and Iran fell out with each other and posted mean things on Twitter!" It really kind of puts things in perspective.

But this is all a bit of a digression because you're question is how would I react?

Well when we come down to it, you're just asking the same basic question as most people do. How do you deal with hardships? Sure, apocalyptic floods are scary and all, but I can't imagine a mother who has just lost her baby in a miscarriage would pay much attention to a little extra rain. The scale's are different, but it's all the same thing at the end of the day.

Left to my own devices, if hardship strikes, whether in the form of loosing a loved one, or being judged by a 9 foot tall angel of doom, I'd crumble. But we are not of ourselves. We don't have to be alone. I don't have to do anything. I just have to accept and cooperate with the graces of God. In prayer, in accepting God's grace, in the face of any hardship, I will respond as a Christian is meant to respond.

There are two basic principles in life, my friend. God loves us, and God orchestrates everything for our better good. When we die, when any of us die, it happened at that specific moment for one of two reasons. Either it was the most opportune moment for us to save our souls, or it was to present us from earning ourselves even more eternal torments in hell. We don't live for this world. We live to know, love and serve God, in this world and in the next.

Whenever He calls us home, we go.
 
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FlaviusAetius

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Mary's Bhoy said it best, 9/11 and any events that happened after that are man-made disasters that have human motives that are despised by some (The West) and praised by others (Radical Islam).

Anyway, FlaviusAetius, we're pretty "safe" until the End Times.

So then you're not bothered by the fact that God is perfectly willing to not only do this to humanity in the past but also eventually make us suffer supernatural disaster in the future? This honestly is one of the major obstacles in keeping from becoming faithful. Why should humanity be interested in sharing eternity with a deity that is perfectly willing to make us suffer for offending His supposed perfection? It'd be like a slave returning to a master who beats them for the smallest offense.

There are two basic principles in life, my friend. God loves us, and God orchestrates everything for our better good.

But even though many people did die that day, God's hand was still on them. It is not up to us to say how or when we will die, that is and always has been God's choice, nor is it our 'right' to question His decision. Believe me, there are worse things than dying.

Here is the problem for me, why are we given minds if we're punished for questioning our creator? I can't imagine being alive during Armageddon seeing God sending down the Seven Bowls containing all sorts of supernatural plagues on humanity and then being able to say while suffering horrible physical pain. "Yes, this is proof of God's love for us." without any sarcasm or anger.

It just seems we were given the option of thinking for ourselves because God wanted to subjugate slaves that think like He does, freely and putting themselves at the center of the universe. It's like humans are less made in God's image and more made as a parody of God's image.
 
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Sumwear

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So then you're not bothered by the fact that God is perfectly willing to not only do this to humanity in the past but also eventually make us suffer supernatural disaster in the future? This honestly is one of the major obstacles in keeping from becoming faithful. Why should humanity be interested in sharing eternity with a deity that is perfectly willing to make us suffer for offending His supposed perfection? It'd be like a slave returning to a master who beats them for the smallest offense.

if you actually reread the OT, God does not decide or does things on a whim. God has numerous times warned people or other tribes to desist what they are doing. your takeaway from the OT is a savage God. mine is of a patient God. how bad were some of these tribes against the jews? abraham starts off by asking if there are 50 and dwindles that number down to just 10 good people in sodom, asking would God wipe them away too. to which God responds that if there were 10 good people, He would spare sodom. the egyptians are so full of it that it takes a 10th and vicious plague to finally set the jews free. then look at some of the missteps committed by some of His chosen people when it comes to idolatry and how many times they needed God on their side because they kept inviting trouble. patience is the takeaway. does so even when Christ was being tortured and killed. had I been God then and there, I probably would have made the world enter into a void.

history has shown vicious conquerors and fighters. the romans, mongolians, conquistadors, vikings, aztecs, nazis, soviets, isis. it shouldn't be hard to accept tribes being malicious during biblical times. the only difference is that God had shown Himself either through miracles or aggression to show what He's capable of but some still were reluctant to believe. throw in other sins which displeased God and it's really not too startling when you really think about it.

Here is the problem for me, why are we given minds if we're punished for questioning our creator? I can't imagine being alive during Armageddon seeing God sending down the Seven Bowls containing all sorts of supernatural plagues on humanity and then being able to say while suffering horrible physical pain. "Yes, this is proof of God's love for us." without any sarcasm or anger.

there is a difference between questioning and outright rejection. Christ Himself second guessed whether dying on the cross should be His ultimate goal. prayed for 40 days, 40 nights. was also being tempted by the devil in the meantime. we aren't divine, omnipotent, omnipresent, anything associated with a higher power like God. I don't think it is wrong to ask or inquire the nature of God. many saints before us tried to explain or inquired about the true nature of God.

the end of times will be mostly our own undoing. you would think with Christ being killed, that would have sufficed. if not that, then all the wars man has fought in. yet, we're still here. when, where, how, why is still a question of when judgement day will arrive. judgement day may not be something we did to irk God but we did something though our own stupidity that ensures we die off. pestilence of the like that has never been seen before? nuclear holocaust? world war III? could be even when we really attain world peace on earth. not an example of the stupidity of man but showing that the end of times really isn't set in stone.

God turning His back on us very well can be out of love. much like the son who has an abusive and alcoholic father. the son loves the father. the son has forgiven the father many times. the son tries to reconcile with the father. but the son can only do so much and get so far, that the son's only option is to turn his back on the father, forgive him and still love but only from a distance. that's what God does. however, we still have a shot. going back to the OT, look at some of the sinners God forgives when they ask for forgiveness. some of those sins He forgives are pretty heinous. expand it to the NT, catholcism and christianity in general. churches are hospitals for sinners. the idiom of sinners making the best saints kind of rings true when you look at some of the early saints. one poster here continuously asks the faithful to go and meet with prisoners because that's what Christ calls on us to do. God has shown to have a very, very soft spot for those who are truly repentant.

It just seems we were given the option of thinking for ourselves because God wanted to subjugate slaves that think like He does, freely and putting themselves at the center of the universe. It's like humans are less made in God's image and more made as a parody of God's image.

many can try to think but no one has or ever will think like God. for starters, we don't know everything there is to know and it's impossible to know what is occurring every second, everywhere. we're human. we're flawed. either egos, personal demons, chemical imbalances, damaged psyches. some through our own fault or no fault whatsoever.
 
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Rhamiel

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God is God

I think that we are less likely to get Fire and Brimstone like Sodom and Gomorrah because they only had animal sacrifices that are inadequate
Christians have the salvific sacrifice of Jesus to call upon :)
we have Christians who always pray for Divine Mercy

but God is God, if He decided to wipe out a major city, or a major country, then so be it
being killed by God does not necessarily mean damnation btw

I do think we will see more and more problems though
not really as "punishment"
just that people reject God and there are natural consequences to sinful actions

on a side note
you mention Wormwood from the book of Revelation
in the Old Testament, Wormwood is used to symbolize a bitter personality
so it is possible that the 3rd of the waters being turned to wormwood might not be about physical water, but rather social trends (helped along by demonic forces) leading more people to be jaded and spiritually dead
 
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fat wee robin

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Mary's Bhoy said it best, 9/11 and any events that happened after that are man-made disasters that have human motives that are despised by some (The West) and praised by others (Radical Islam).



So then you're not bothered by the fact that God is perfectly willing to not only do this to humanity in the past but also eventually make us suffer supernatural disaster in the future? This honestly is one of the major obstacles in keeping from becoming faithful. Why should humanity be interested in sharing eternity with a deity that is perfectly willing to make us suffer for offending His supposed perfection? It'd be like a slave returning to a master who beats them for the smallest offense.

oblem for me, why are we given minds if we're punished for questioning our creator? I can't imagine being alive during Armageddon seeing God sending down the Seven Bowls containing all sorts of supernatural plagues on humanity and then being able to say while suffering horrible physical pain. "Yes, this is proof of God's love for us." without any sarcasm or anger.

It just seems we were given the option of thinking for ourselves because God wanted to subjugate slaves that think like He does, freely and putting themselves at the center of the universe. It's like humans are less made in God's image and more made as a parody of God's image.

The problem is not with God ,but how the people who have been leading christianity for centuries have prevented the truth from coming out about how God organises His Creation . God has created a 'school',and as always in a school there is organised progress built in ,steps which we must follow in order to enter into God's world .Normally this is impossible on our own, as we accumulate 'karma' over lifetimes ,and from which we can never ever escape on our own .So as God plans everything in cycles of time ,all living things have a natural cycle,and we as humans develop in a cycle of time. We cannot on our own enter the new and higher "life" on our own, so Jesus came to pay it for us ,and if we accept His gift, we begin a new and higher cycle with Him .

The old cycle is coming to an end,and only those who truly believe ,who truly love, will begin the new one. This will be in God's own time ,but we are being judged now for everything we think and feel is registered ,and if we are not concerned for others salvation, only our own ,we are in the wrong place.

I doubt if this will pass,but I am sending it anyway .:)
 
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Chrystal-J

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If people repent and turn from their evil ways, then God has mercy and will not destroy them. One example is in Jonah 3:9 (after He sent Jonah to warn them).

9 Who knows? God may turn and relent and turn from his fierce anger, so that we may not perish.”
10 When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil way, God relented of the disaster that he had said he would do to them, and he did not do it.
 
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