God Or Chance ? ?

[wardpossy]

I read threads and it seems that most come down to the question, Is our lives lived by chance or Do you believe That God Controls all ? Please back your awnser with Facts, I have a deep interest in hearing your thoughts. Thank you

Jeff

 

[tocis]

If any Divine force guides the whole universe, it surely tries its best (and is very successful at it) to remain hidden. While there are things the scientists can't (yet?) explain, this absence of a scientific explanation does not automatically mean proof of Divine influence.

Whether there is something Divine outside of the scope of our observations is anyone's guess. No one can ever know for sure.

How could "proof of the Divine" look like, the objective type of proof that is? Good question. If we can't explain something with the known laws of nature, does that mean that we have to claim Divine origin... or does it mean that our understanding of the laws of nature is lacking? Logically (Occam's Razor comes to mind) we should lean toward the latter.

 

[Clem is Me]

I read threads and it seems that most come down to the question, Is our lives lived by chance or Do you believe That God Controls all ? Please back your awnser with Facts, I have a deep interest in hearing your thoughts. Thank you

Jeff

Define chance. A great many forces have contributed to the universe as we comprehend it.

 

[jdw4jesus]

GOD IS IN CONTROL! Everything is "father-filtered"

 

[wardpossy]

Define chance. A great many forces have contributed to the universe as we comprehend it.

I mean is chance nature, was this earth and life itself something that just happened??
I really would like to know, I am a christian, have been since I was little, but I am wanting to expand my knowledge in this area, I feel like I am missing something.

 

[johan777]

Facts: The facts you find in the Bible and no, it is not a circular argument. There is still something like an absolute truth

Job 38:4 Where were you when I created the earth? Tell me, since you know so much!

Job 38:5 Who decided on its size? Certainly you'll know that! Who came up with the blueprints and measurements?

Job 38:8 And who took charge of the ocean when it gushed forth like a baby from the womb?

Job 38:9 That was me! I wrapped it in soft clouds, and tucked it in safely at night.

Job 38:11 And said, 'Stay here, this is your place. Your wild tantrums are confined to this place.'

Job 38:12 "And have you ever ordered Morning, 'Get up!' told Dawn, 'Get to work!'

Job 38:16 "Have you ever gotten to the true bottom of things, explored the labyrinthine caves of deep ocean?

Job 38:17 Do you know the first thing about death? Do you have one clue regarding death's dark mysteries?

Job 38:22 "Have you ever traveled to where snow is made, seen the vault where hail is stockpiled,

Job 38:23 The arsenals of hail and snow that I keep in readiness for times of trouble and battle and war?

Job 38:24 Can you find your way to where lightning is launched, or to the place from which the wind blows?

Job 38:25 Who do you suppose carves canyons for the downpours of rain, and charts the route of thunderstorms

Job 38:30 You don't for a minute imagine these marvels of weather just happen, do you?

Job 39:19 "Are you the one who gave the horse his prowess and adorned him with a shimmering mane?

Job 39:20 Did you create him to prance proudly and strike terror with his royal snorts?

Isa 46:9 - 11.. remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose, calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my counsel from a far country. I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass; I have purposed, and I will do it. (Message)

YES, God is in control

 

[Clem is Me]

I mean is chance nature, was this earth and life itself something that just happened??
I really would like to know, I am a christian, have been since I was little, but I am wanting to expand my knowledge in this area, I feel like I am missing something.

I would say that there is an element of chance involved, at least from a statistical point of view, but the laws and effects of the cosmos tend to lead to certain phenomena, and these in turn have made life on earth a distinct probability. They also lead life on earth to behave in certain ways. The element of chance involved is probably very small.

 

[comana]

Facts: The facts you find in the Bible and no, it is not a circular argument. There is still something like an absolute truth

Job 38:4 Where were you when I created the earth? Tell me, since you know so much!

Job 38:5 Who decided on its size? Certainly you'll know that! Who came up with the blueprints and measurements?

Job 38:8 And who took charge of the ocean when it gushed forth like a baby from the womb?

Job 38:9 That was me! I wrapped it in soft clouds, and tucked it in safely at night.

Job 38:11 And said, 'Stay here, this is your place. Your wild tantrums are confined to this place.'

Job 38:12 "And have you ever ordered Morning, 'Get up!' told Dawn, 'Get to work!'

Job 38:16 "Have you ever gotten to the true bottom of things, explored the labyrinthine caves of deep ocean?

Job 38:17 Do you know the first thing about death? Do you have one clue regarding death's dark mysteries?

Job 38:22 "Have you ever traveled to where snow is made, seen the vault where hail is stockpiled,

Job 38:23 The arsenals of hail and snow that I keep in readiness for times of trouble and battle and war?

Job 38:24 Can you find your way to where lightning is launched, or to the place from which the wind blows?

Job 38:25 Who do you suppose carves canyons for the downpours of rain, and charts the route of thunderstorms

Job 38:30 You don't for a minute imagine these marvels of weather just happen, do you?

Job 39:19 "Are you the one who gave the horse his prowess and adorned him with a shimmering mane?

Job 39:20 Did you create him to prance proudly and strike terror with his royal snorts?

Isa 46:9 - 11.. remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose, calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my counsel from a far country. I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass; I have purposed, and I will do it. (Message)

YES, God is in control

Not Facts. How can you not call this circular?

But having said that, I find the verses humorous, specially this one:
Job 38:22 "Have you ever traveled to where snow is made, seen the vault where hail is stockpiled,

No wait this one:
Job 39:20 Did you create him to prance proudly and strike terror with his royal snorts?

Gosh Golly, they're all so good it's hard to choose.


Thanks!

 

[large fry please.]

I read threads and it seems that most come down to the question, Is our lives lived by chance or Do you believe That God Controls all ? Please back your awnser with Facts, I have a deep interest in hearing your thoughts. Thank you

Jeff

To believe that god controls "all" would be criminal. Some of us have come into existence through the random chance of a rapist preying on the nearest female. Or of a drunken chance encounter at the local pub. Some of us will die because of a series of events that leed up to our demise. In a sense, I control my own life, but at anytime someone could walk up behind me and pull the trigger. Was I in the wrong place at the wrong time? What caused the person to do this? There are so many variables to life. The earth and life has no goal or reason. What could possibly be the goal of life? We have created goals within ourselves, but that means so little if you look at the BIG picture.

 

[comana]

It seems to me that God controls nothing. Of course I don't believe in any Gods. But aside from that humans live their lives by human decisions. Things that one would call chance are usually the result of natural events. A meteorite falls from the sky killing an unlucky person. A lion eats a tourist. Etc.

Human decisions, natural events, no God.

 

[Cerberus~]

I like to think God has better things to do than micromanage our lives. Besides, doesn't Satan control the world?

 

[johan777]

I like to think God has better things to do than micromanage our lives. Besides, doesn't Satan control the world?

No, satan may be the god of this world, (2 Cor. 4:4) but he is not in control.

God is in control: Eph 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.

Lam 3:37 Who has spoken and it came to pass, unless the Lord has commanded it?


Amo 3:6 Is a trumpet blown in a city, and the people are not afraid? Does disaster come to a city, unless the LORD has done it?

Mat 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.

 

[joebudda]

I don’t believe there is a god.

When we look at physics on the quantum mechanic level, everything we know is in chaos. There is no rhyme or reason when we start to examine the world around us on that level. Then you understand that everything is a matter of chance.

I have been reading a lot on string theory lately though. Wow is all I can say. If string theory, well M theory is true then there would have to be another 7 dimensions along side of the 4 we can observe and study. This could explain pretty much everything we have ever dreamed of even wondering. We might be here now because our dimension could have bumped up against another dimension causing what we know as the big bang. This could be normal and has always been happening. We are just stuck in a timeframe that amounts to less then a blink of an eye.

 

[The Gregorian]

I take a very simplistic viewpoint:

God's a person, just like us... only superpowerful and smart and all that. But he has the same set of emotions: curiousity, love, happyness, lonliness. At some point, he made more sentient beings to keep him company and so that he can have companions... like a pet monkey... only we can converse and all that. Basically the same reason that couples have children.... because it's nice to make children, to create life, all that good junk.

Just like parents guide their children, God made us, but doesn't control us like puppets. He helps us along every day in little ways, sometimes big ways that we don't notice... sometimes we do notice... either way, he gives us nudges, but we're not puppets or pages in a big book of fate.

I think we're like miniature versions of people. which... in fact, we are.

So... Kinda both. I think we make our lives what it is.... but God trys to help us... if we accept it.

Example: I know this is a small thing, but this is one of the kind of things that really shows the simplistic beauty of how God works. Today I was walking from class to my car (I'm a college student) and I slipped on some ice. I had jumped over a little hill of ice and I landed funny and my center of gravity was too far back and there was a hill behind so I couldn't get my foot back to catch myself. There's no possible way I could have stopped myself from falling... yet I didn't actually fall down. It was really weird. I could feal a force like magnetism pulling through my feet.... but I was falling backwards and my feet were ahead of my center of gravity. I'm into martial arts and stuff, so I know a lot about leverage and how to make people fall down and there's no way I could have righted myself... but I didn't fall over.

Now, that might have just been a coincidence... but maybe not.