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no, satan cannot repent ,just as the rest of them. He hates humanity.So there is a limit on omnipotence and causing Satan to repent rather than a need in God for evil according to hidden wisdom.
This the typical problem of evil fslse dichotomy. All of God’s attributes remain intact and He has already defeated the devil. The Bible addresses evil through out the totality of scripture. Rather than creating us as amoral robots or dooming mankind for our sin or condoning our sin by leaving it unresolved, God chose the one and only way to settle the problem. He created us with the freedom to choose our actions, and then extended forgiveness to us. Forgiveness is the Christian answer to the problem of evil.In theodicies we consider God almighty and how evil still occurs. Can God really turn Satan's heart into repentance at any time He wants, or annihilate him?
Some suppose that God has a special purpose for evil we don't know yet. Or God makes some people for Hell, but that isn't good. Then one can look at the beginning of sin among the angels and, why could not God save them, or bring to a quick repentance, or know ahead of time not to create certain angels. Some say evil leads to an appreciation of the constant good, and prevents conceit and arrogance. But if God is omniscient and omnipotent, then He does not need evil for any purpose, outside or inside Himself. God needs Satan? Can God prevent us from free willing bad choices? Because of free will, I do not think He can.
Which gives, to some limit? Onmibenevolence, Omniscience, omnipotence?
Jesus had to overcome evil and exchange our sins for His righteousness, and there is forgiveness, but only for those persuaded to cooperate, which brings in destiny choice then Arminius and Calvin...This the typical problem of evil fslse dichotomy. All of God’s attributes remain intact and He has already defeated the devil. The Bible addresses evil through out the totality of scripture. Rather than creating us as amoral robots or dooming mankind for our sin or condoning our sin by leaving it unresolved, God chose the one and only way to settle the problem. He created us with the freedom to choose our actions, and then extended forgiveness to us. Forgiveness is the Christian answer to the problem of evil.
This is not a matter of Arminian free will but a matter of God giving us reason to choose our actions. We, as Christians, continue to din which in the Lord’s eyes us evil and yet we can confess our sins and be forgiven. The problem of evil never existed.
Your implicit argument is, "If God were X, then things would be different. But things are not different, therefore God is not X," where 'X' could be any of the notions you present. The general answer is to hold that God is X even though things are the way they are (in the Book of Job, for example). This is not to deny that God will make things just in time, but rather to say that the state of the world is not incompatible with the Christian God.Can God prevent us from free willing bad choices? Because of free will, I do not think He can.
Which gives, to some limit? Onmibenevolence, Omniscience, omnipotence?
I would suppose you mean another's "notion" that God being almighty means God can change mens' and demons' wills and end sin immediately. And heal things in a short time. But my idea is that while has great powers changing our will and bringing quick repentance is not one of God's powers, X. Sin on Earth is incompatibe with Omnibenevolence, Omnipotence and Omniscience. Otherwise one suggests, God has a hidden reason to allow evil. Which I have said I do not agree with. For if God needs evil, that's a limit, He is almighty and also doesn't need evil in His complete power range.Your implicit argument is, "If God were X, then things would be different. But things are not different, therefore God is not X," where 'X' could be any of the notions you present. The general answer is to hold that God is X even though things are the way they are (in the Book of Job, for example). This is not to deny that God will make things just in time, but rather to say that the state of the world is not incompatible with the Christian God.
"If God has a reason to allow evil, then he must need evil."Otherwise one suggests, God has a hidden reason to allow evil. Which I have said I do not agree with. For if God needs evil, that's a limit,
No I would not say God needs evil. And has no reason to create it..."If God has a reason to allow evil, then he must need evil."
That's an invalid inference.
My brother if this is true then God would be contingent on man and other agencies which means that God is not omniscient or omnipotent. If God is contingent on any agency then God is not infinite and could go out of existence based on contingency. You might want to reexamine this belief.For me evil was predicted and was unstoppable because free will is outside God's power by nature.
I am saying that God has to allow us to say yes or no to love. He knows what the angels and souls will say in advance and some are predestined to life by their choice when their opportunity comes. God is dependant on other agencies and gives grace and blessings, to help us choose life. Fallen angels block us and we need God and grace. Satan is the obstacle. God did not make this nature. He knew about it long ago. He uses or depends on it to give us a choice, since He won't tempt us. The only limit on omnipotence is not forcing love.My brother if this is true then God would be contingent on man and other agencies which means that God is not omniscient or omnipotent. If God is contingent on any agency then God is not infinite and could go out of existence based on contingency. You might want to reexamine this belief.
That in itself can be a theodicy.Theodicies depend on 2 assumptions. First, the evils of the world are without purpose. Second, the evil in the world is without remedy. Both of these assumptions are false, as seen in the brutality of the cross. None of God's omni attributes need give way, it is the assumptions that theodicies are built on that is faulty.
Not quite what I was getting at, but if we understand theodicy as a response to the argument from evil, sure.That in itself can be a theodicy
There's a saying abouf God never wasting a tragedy..
Evil has a purpose in the second place, after it comes about independently from God. Murder has a purpose after God promises that all things, even what Satan throws at us, work together for the good in those who love God. God can undo otherwise useless and vile knots and make them come good. Restoration, part of Christ's cross work, at least, double for our trouble. The blood of Jesus restores honour... God gives new life. God did not devise murder... but took into account it would come into existence. He puts it to use. There is death in nature.
Do you think anything is outside of God's control? Even if by way of permission, God supplies the energies through which evil comes to fruition. But no one would accuse a surgeon for cutting into a patient.I judge evil has no use, but God is very well able to remedy Satan and evil. There is no value in it for God, in the death and damnation of a sinner...
Certainly, but do you think Satan is self-empowered? God not only permits the evil Satan commits, He makes it possible.God is all powerful in Himself and in creation, but cannot force Satan to repent because He is a good gentleman and won't rape.
I tend to suspect God manipulates our wills regularly, though through strengthening/weakening rather than as the originGod can change our wills, although, we can refuse.
The fall of angels, how did God allow that? What energies? What do you mean about God cutting?Not quite what I was getting at, but if we understand theodicy as a response to the argument from evil, sure.
There's a saying abouf God never wasting a tragedy.
Do you think anything is outside of God's control? Even if by way of permission, God supplies the energies through which evil comes to fruition. But no one would accuse a surgeon for cutting into a patient.
Certainly, but do you think Satan is self-empowered? God not only permits the evil Satan commits, He makes it possible.
I tend to suspect God manipulates our wills regularly, though through strengthening/weakening rather than as the origin
On a free will theodicy God chooses to give some creatures free will, and that free will allows those creatures to turn away from Him towards evil. In this case he allows evil but does not need evil.For me evil was predicted and was unstoppable because free will is outside God's power by nature.
I think God hates evil and would not allow it if our free wills were fully His.
Why in your view does God allow evil to exist, despite His great love?
Do you think angels are capable of overturning God's will? And the reference to surgeons was about purposeful pain, as God making evil possible as a way of creating a world without evil that contains more than just God/beings completely controlled by GodThe fall of angels, how did God allow that? What energies? What do you mean about God cutting?
How else could autonomous beings exist?Why does God make evil possible?
That would undermine God's purposes.Why not just make us repent in our wills?
These are manmade terms that depict concepts that even the human mind can't fully comprehend.Onmibenevolence, Omniscience, omnipotence?
That is reasonable to me. God can overpower us, can over power Satan, but because He is good and wise He doesn't.On a free will theodicy God chooses to give some creatures free will, and that free will allows those creatures to turn away from Him towards evil. In this case he allows evil but does not need evil.
It is not a matter of power. If God gives you free will then he is allowing you to exercise that free will. If God does not allow you to exercise your freedom then he has not given you freedom. It makes no sense to say, "If God were more powerful then he could give me free will and at the same time force me to choose whatever he wants." That is a bit like saying, "If God were more powerful then he could make a square circle."
The first fall, of angels led to displeasure and grief to God. Their temptations and accusations lead to the death and condemnation of persons God loves. The original plan was the Garden of Eden, or pleasure, paradise. Pain and suffering builds character in amidst the disordered state, the flesh and appetites. It is a penalty. Better a reward than a penalty.Do you think angels are capable of overturning God's will? And the reference to surgeons was about purposeful pain, as God making evil possible as a way of creating a world without evil that contains more than just God/beings completely controlled by God
How else could autonomous beings exist?
That would undermine God's purposes.
We could have been refined without Adam taking the forbidden fruit. Now we are in a penalised state and live amidst curses, which can be called dross.These are manmade terms that depict concepts that even the human mind can't fully comprehend.
We shouldn't use them.
Thinking of God in these terms will usually lead to questioning God's intentions.
The most common result is asking why there is still evil in spite of the presence of God, why doesn't "omnipotent" God make it right, and other, similar questions.
Consider this:
Scripture tells us we will be refined, like silver.
What this means is that silver is not naturally pure... It naturally has imperfections that must be "burned out."
The product of this is called dross. Evil is the dross- It's the byproduct of refinement, or of making something pure.
God created life on a lifeless planet, using nonliving material to make a living being.
Naturally, to perfect His creation, He must refine it.
This is all just speculation on your part. Do you think God was somehow taken off guard when the fall happened? If so, why was the lamb slain before the foundation of the world?The first fall, of angels led to displeasure and grief to God. Their temptations and accusations lead to the death and condemnation of persons God loves. The original plan was the Garden of Eden, or pleasure, paradise. Pain and suffering builds character in amidst the disordered state, the flesh and appetites. It is a penalty. Better a reward than a penalty.
Before sin the angels were autonomous.
I'd say as at first that there is no hidden purpose for which God needs evil and suffering. That is why I mention almighty God. He doesn't need the fallen angels but can use them. God knows better ways. The surpassing the temptations holy angels were not penalised. Because God is so good, He does not force our free wills.
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