God never changes? What does this mean?

[eph3Nine]

By Howell Osborne

Many reject dispensationalism because they say, "God never changes." Well, let's test the validity of their rebuke. Again, lets use the Bible itself to examine their rebukes.


Luke 9:33 And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.

COMPARE that with:

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Matt. 10: 5-6
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Compare that with:

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Matt. 7:7-8
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Compare THAT with:

2Cor. 12: 8-9
8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Compare that with:

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Compare that with:

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Matt. 23:2-3
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Compare that with:

Gal. 5:11 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Mark 1:14-15
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Compare that with:

Eph. 3:1-3
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Compare that with:

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

[size=+1]Didn't something seem to change in these verses? How do we explain the seeming contradiction? The answer is quite simple. God's Sovereignty never changes. God does change the way He deals with mankind, but His Holiness, His righteousness never changes. Simply put, God's character never changes as He deals differently with mankind.[/size]

 

[rightlydividingtheword]

Also look at how god deals with the diet of man
Leviticus 11:1-411:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,
11:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.
11:3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.
11:4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
Compare with

Mark7:18-19
7:18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

 

[eph3Nine]

Also look at how god deals with the diet of man
Leviticus 11:1-411:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,
11:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.
11:3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.
11:4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
Compare with

Mark7:18-19
7:18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

Aaaamen, rightly dividing. MORE things that differ! Things that are different are NOT the same....right?

Your books will be mailed tomorrow. Have been in bed sick with a lousy cold for the last 3 days and couldnt get outside. Tomorrow its supposed to snow, but I will make the trek to the post office JUST FOR YOU!

 

[GLJCA]

Compare that with:

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

These is no change indicated here. Here is what Paul, the apostle taught to Gentiles. Check it out.
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
This is what Paul taught the men in Athens at Mars Hill. It is in the Bible you can look it up if you want. Oh by the way does all mean all here?

You want another verse? Here is another one.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Paul taught the same thing to the Jews in Damascus, Jerusalem, the coasts of Judaea and then to the Gentiles. You guys are teaching something that is untrue when you say that Paul taught something different than Peter.

You can ignore these verses and believe what you want but I oppose what you are saying for the purpose to keep others from falling for your false teaching.

GLJCA

 

[eph3Nine]

These is no change indicated here. Here is what Paul, the apostle taught to Gentiles. Check it out.
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
This is what Paul taught the men in Athens at Mars Hill. It is in the Bible you can look it up if you want. Oh by the way does all mean all here?

You want another verse? Here is another one.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Paul taught the same thing to the Jews in Damascus, Jerusalem, the coasts of Judaea and then to the Gentiles. You guys are teaching something that is untrue when you say that Paul taught something different than Peter.

You can ignore these verses and believe what you want but I oppose what you are saying for the purpose to keep others from falling for your false teaching.

GLJCA

Had you actually READ the post you would have known which scriptures to compare...you compared the wrong ones in the wrong sequence. Here are the ones to compare...NOT that you will look any more closely THIS time either

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Compare that with:

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

[JMWHALEN]

If one does not “rightly divide” the Bible (2Tim. 2:15-Paul), then one must attempt to follow all the instructions given directly to Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, John the Baptist, Peter, the Lord Jesus Christ.......Therefore,, you must not eat fruit, not eat meat, build an ark, be circumcized, sacrifice animals, sell all that you have, pluck out your eyes, tithe, show yourself to a priest.............. ad infinitum.

Here is a short excerpt from another writer-I am unable to cite him, as I lost the reference:


"Hebrews 13:8 is one of the most misquoted passages in the Bible. People will take and use this verse to try and prove that God is still doing everything the same today as He did in times past. I have heard people say they want to do everything God's Word says to do. The problem is you cannot. Nor does God want you to.Both Heb. 13:8 and Malachi 3:6 say God does not change as to His person, His Character, His attributes. So we should be able to agree that when we speak of the person of God, He has always been the same. He is Holy,Righteous, Just,Pure, Merciful, Loving, and so on.

It is a missusing of God's Word when someone takes a verse like Hebrews 13:8 and tries to convince you that Because God has done something in the past, He expects you to do the same things today. 2 Tim. 3:16 is another misused verse. Many read it as if it says "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable TO YOU FOR doctrine, TO YOU FOR reproof, TO YOU FOR correction, TO YOU FOR instruction in righteousness. Oh, they may quote it correctly , but in their mind they are reading it as if all scripture is written to them. Again by looking at another verse we see God is telling us that all scripture is for us, but not all is to us. All scripture from Gen. 1:1 to Rev. 22:21 is "for our learning"(Rom. 15:4), but not for our obedience.

While all scriptures are for us, there are some that has been written not only for you but to you. It is in these scriptures you find how to please God today. God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints(1 Cor. 14:33). The reason for a different church on every street corner is because people have refused to do as God instructs in 2 Ti. 2:15.

There are obvious contradictions in the Holy Bible - the written Word of God - that cause much of the confusion in people today because of a lack of understanding in How To Study The Bible. I will address some of these issues from time to time in hopes it will help you, or someone you know, grab hold of God's simple truths. Isn't it amazing how mankind wants to complicate what God made very simple?"

I thought I would re-post some differences:


How/ Why you became a "Dispensationalist: When I discovered that the gospel that saved me, the gospel of Christ, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, was never preached by the Lord Jesus Christ, nor the disciples, as a basis for justification, in Matthew-John. The LORD God showed me yes, the conflicting doctrines/instructions within the Holy Bible, which are cleared up by right division. When I was first introduced to 2 Timothy 2:15, I compiled a list of these conflicting doctrines/instructions, The below are a few samples of these differences, which do not even address the "Big Picture", i.e., the main division in the Holy Bible, i.e., the prophetic program vs. the mystery program. I provide merely to stress what "moved me" towards the "seeing" plea of Paul in Ephesians 3:9-the differences:


"seek ye first the kingdom of God" Mt. 6:33, Luke 12:31: To seek for something, by definition, means to look for it. One would not be seeking the kingdom of God unless one was not presently in it.
vs.
Col. 1:12,13; 1 Thes. 2:12; Eph. 3:20, 2:6 Philippians 3:20: We are already counted as citizens of heaven, although it's manifestation is not yet present. 2 Cor. 5:20: An ambassador represents his "boss" in a foreign country; citizenship in that country(heaven) is a prerequisite to ambassadorship.

"And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." Mt. 19:28, Luke 22:30, Rev. 21:14
"And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city." Isaiah 1:26
vs.
"Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?" 1 Cor. 6:2,3

The Lord Jesus Christ's throne
"And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom." Mt. 20:21
"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." Rev. 3:21
vs.
God the Father's throne
"Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places," Eph. 1:20
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:." Eph. 1:3
"And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus..." Eph. 2:6

=Members of the Body of Christ will with the Lord Jesus Christ in the heavenlies upon God the Father's throne, but kingdom members will sit upon the Lord Jesus Christ's throne on earth.

"But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that the LORD doth put a difference between the Egyptians and Israel." Exodus 11:7
"... I am the LORD your God, which have separated you from other people." Lev. 20:24
"For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth." Deut. 7:6
vs.
"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." Romans 10:12
"Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all." Col. 3:11
"Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all." Gal. 3:28

Forgiveness: Mt. 6:12-15, 18:32-35; Mk. 11:25,26; Luke 6:37, 11:4, 17:3; James 5:14,15; 2 Chron. 7:14=conditional
vs.
2 Cor. 5:19; Eph. 1:7, 4:31,32; Col. 1:14, 2:13, 3:13,14; Romans 4:5-8=unconditional


"For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end..." Hebrews 3:14
vs.
"For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones." Eph. 5:30; Romans 12:5; 1 Cor. 6:15, 12:12, 27; Col. 1:12-14

sell all/foresake all/leave all: command given- Mt. 19:21; Mk. 10: 21;Luke 12:33, 18:22/command obeyed-Mt. 19:27; Mk. 10:28; Luke 5:11, 18:28; Acts 2:44,45, 4:32, 34(after Calvary)/penalty for disobedience-death Acts 5:1-11
principle: "... all things common..."- Acts 2:44, 4:32-34, 3:6 The Lord Jesus Christ promised that His Father would provide everything during the apostle's/disciple's ministry, both prior to and after Calvary.
vs.
principle: private enterprise-"....every man according to his ability...." Acts 11:29
(The Lord Jesus Christ promised that His Father would provide everything during the apostle's/disciple's ministry, both prior to and after Calvary. Notice the change: from "having favour with all the people"(Acts 2:47), to "there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem"(Acts 8:1), and relief is sent to the poor saints(Acts 11:29, 1 Cor. 16:1-3))

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26
"But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things......But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." 1 John 2"20.27
"And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." Jer. 31:34
(see also Mt. 10:19; Mk. 13:11; Luke 12:11,12, 21:14,15; John 16:13).
vs.
"Study...." 2 Timothy 2:15; Col. 2:7, 3:16; Titus 1:9; 1 Tim. 2:7, 1:3; 2 Tim. 1:11; Gal. 6:6

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Mt. 24:13
vs.
"Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Cor. 1:8

Instructions for the sick: Acts 19:11,12; James 5:14,15
vs.
Instructions for the sick: 2 Cor. 12:9, 10, 11:30, 12:5; 1 Timothy 5:23

"Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne..." Acts 2:30
vs.
"Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification." Romans 4:25

"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you." John 15:13,14
vs.
"For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly........For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life." Romans 5:6-10.

"....give his life a ransom for many." Mt. 20:28, Mark 10:45
vs.
"Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." 1 Tim. 2:6

The kingdom: set up suddenly, violently by force: Daniel 2:44; Jer. 33:15; Mt. 11:12, 24:27; Mal. 3:1; Is. 11:4, 19:1; John 6:15; Revelation/a literal, eternal kingdom, in which location is earth: Deut. 11:21........(to many references)/eartthly kingdom promised only to Israel: 2 Sam. 7:12-16; Jer. 30:4-12; Luke 1:32, 12:32; Mt. 21:43, 25:34; Acts 3:19-21-"That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth." Deut. 11:21/prepared from the foundation of the world: Mt. 13:35, 25:34; Luke 11:50, and spoken about since the world began: Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21-24/Jesus Christ is "King of the Jews". "King of Israel"(too many references)/waiting for a kingdom: Hebrews 12:28/ believers' relationship: king-subject-servant/an outward, earthly, political organization to be set up/ushering in of the kingdom will be preceded by wrath and tribulation(too many references)/"having received the kingdom"(Luke 19:15), enter into the kingdom of heaven"(Mt. 18:3), "inherit the kingdom"(Mt. 25:34)
vs.
The church, the body of Christ: is being built up gradually- a process: 1 Cor. 3:9-11; Col. 2:7; Eph. 2:20-22/location is heavenly places: Eph. 1:3,10,20, 2:6; Philiippians 1:3,20; Col. 1:5, 3:1-4; 2 Cor. 5:20; 1 Cor. 6:3/chosen in Him before the foundation of the world: Eph. 1:4; 2 Tim. 1:9; 1 Cor. 2:7, and kept secret, hidden, since the world began: Romans 16:25; Eph. 3:5,9; Col. 1:26; 1 Cor. 2:7/ called: a house- 1 Tim. 3:15, a temple-1 Cor. 3:16,17, 6:19; Eph. 2:22; a building-1 Cor. 3:9; but never called a kingdom/Jesus Christ is "the head of the body": Eph. 1:22, 4:15, 5:23; Col. 1:18, 2:19/looking "for that blessed hope": Titus 2:13; 1 Thes. 1:10, 2:19; Romans 8:11,23; /believers' relationship:head/member: Romans 12:4,5; 1 Cor. 6:15, 12:12-27; Eph. 4:25, 5:30-32=a joint union /an invisible, spiritual organism to be "caught up"/members of the body of Christ have been delivered from the wrath to come: Romans 5:9; 1 Thes. 1:10, 4:13-5:11; Gal. 1:4/no such language as "receive the church", "enter the church", "inherit the church"...

"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams..." Acts 2:17
vs.
"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." 2 Tim. 3:1-5

Israel receives the entire kingdom program through the disposition of angels: Deut. 33:2; Psalms 68:17; Acts 7:53; Gal. 3:19; Luke 1:19,20; Acts 1:10,11; Hebrews 2:2/John receives the Apocalypse through the administration of an angel: Rev. 1:1
vs.
The body of Christ judges( in the sense of administration) the angelic realm: 1 Cor. 6:3/The body of Christ is seated equally with the Lord Jesus Christ=has authority over the angelic realm: Eph. 1:20, 23, 2:6; Philippians 3:20/The body of Christ has a teaching ministry to the angels: Eph. 3:10

"Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." Psalms 51:11
"But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him." 1 Samuel 16:14
vs.
Ephesians 4:30, 1:13, 2:22; 1 Cor. 3:16, 6:19; 2 Cor. 1:22; Rom. 8:15; Gal. 4:6

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:8
vs.
"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people..." Rev. 14:6


The list goes on and on and on and..........God has changed his dealings with mankind. All of divide this Holy Bible in some manner. The LORD God commands us to rightly divide it. This is not a suggestion.



In Christ,

John M. Whalen

 

[GLJCA]

Had you actually READ the post you would have known which scriptures to compare...you compared the wrong ones in the wrong sequence. Here are the ones to compare...NOT that you will look any more closely THIS time either

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Compare that with:

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Excuse me but I commented on those two scriptures and the outlandish belief that you have that they are somehow different or that God changed the gospel message. Scriptures do not show it. It is just a figment of the Acts 2 dispensationalist imagination.

GLJCA

 

[GLJCA]

The list goes on and on and on and..........God has changed his dealings with mankind. All of divide this Holy Bible in some manner. The LORD God commands us to rightly divide it. This is not a suggestion.

In Christ,

John M. Whalen

Man you sure write a lot and yet since you are so inconsistent in your belief it negates everything you say.

You say that you are a right divider and that your salvation is from the Paul's gospel yet your sins are forgiven from the blood of the New Covenant, even though you don't like to mention that it is the blood of the New Covenant, which Christ shed on the cross. To add to your inconsistency you say that the blood of the New Covenant is not for us today because the New Covenant is not in effect yet, therefore I keep bringing it to your attention that the blood of the New Covenant can not wash away your sins if it is not for us today. You ignore it when I show you your error but that is all right, the chickens will come to roost.

One thing I have to say is that you are solidly inconsistent. The problem is that you can not see your inconsistency because you are too busy judging everyone else for not believing like you. I pray that one day God will show you your error.

GLJCA

 

[GLJCA]

The kingdom: set up suddenly, violently by force: Daniel 2:44; Jer. 33:15; Mt. 11:12, 24:27; Mal. 3:1; Is. 11:4, 19:1; John 6:15; Revelation/a literal, eternal kingdom, in which location is earth: Deut. 11:21........(to many references)/eartthly kingdom promised only to Israel: 2 Sam. 7:12-16; Jer. 30:4-12; Luke 1:32, 12:32; Mt. 21:43, 25:34; Acts 3:19-21-"That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth." Deut. 11:21/prepared from the foundation of the world: Mt. 13:35, 25:34; Luke 11:50, and spoken about since the world began: Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21-24/Jesus Christ is "King of the Jews". "King of Israel"(too many references)/waiting for a kingdom: Hebrews 12:28/ believers' relationship: king-subject-servant/an outward, earthly, political organization to be set up/ushering in of the kingdom will be preceded by wrath and tribulation(too many references)/"having received the kingdom"(Luke 19:15), enter into the kingdom of heaven"(Mt. 18:3), "inherit the kingdom"(Mt. 25:34)
vs.
The church, the body of Christ: is being built up gradually- a process: 1 Cor. 3:9-11; Col. 2:7; Eph. 2:20-22/location is heavenly places: Eph. 1:3,10,20, 2:6; Philiippians 1:3,20; Col. 1:5, 3:1-4; 2 Cor. 5:20; 1 Cor. 6:3/chosen in Him before the foundation of the world: Eph. 1:4; 2 Tim. 1:9; 1 Cor. 2:7, and kept secret, hidden, since the world began: Romans 16:25; Eph. 3:5,9; Col. 1:26; 1 Cor. 2:7/ called: a house- 1 Tim. 3:15, a temple-1 Cor. 3:16,17, 6:19; Eph. 2:22; a building-1 Cor. 3:9; but never called a kingdom/Jesus Christ is "the head of the body": Eph. 1:22, 4:15, 5:23; Col. 1:18, 2:19/looking "for that blessed hope": Titus 2:13; 1 Thes. 1:10, 2:19; Romans 8:11,23; /believers' relationship:head/member: Romans 12:4,5; 1 Cor. 6:15, 12:12-27; Eph. 4:25, 5:30-32=a joint union /an invisible, spiritual organism to be "caught up"/members of the body of Christ have been delivered from the wrath to come: Romans 5:9; 1 Thes. 1:10, 4:13-5:11; Gal. 1:4/no such language as "receive the church", "enter the church", "inherit the church"...

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

You keep using this scripture to prove that the kingdom will be set up by force but you fail to answer my question which shows that your timing of the kingdom set up is bogus.

Who are the kings that Daniel is talking about at the set up of the kingdom? I have already told you what I believe the Bible says who these kings were. Notice I said "were".

Really can you use a scripture that obviously is showing that the kingdom of Christ was set up in the 1st century, and try to say that the kingdom will not be set up until the Millennial reign?

I believe that this is a total mis-interpretation of scripture.

GLJCA

 

[eph3Nine]

John wrote:

The list goes on and on and on and..........God has changed his dealings with mankind. All of divide this Holy Bible in some manner. The LORD God commands us to rightly divide it. This is not a suggestion.

Thats correct, John. God has given us many illustrations to prove that things that are different are NOT the same. The Program has changed! No doubt about it!

 

[JMWHALEN]

"Man you sure write a lot and yet since you are so inconsistent in your belief it negates everything you say.

You say that you are a right divider and that your salvation is from the Paul's gospel yet your sins are forgiven from the blood of the New Covenant, even though you don't like to mention that it is the blood of the New Covenant, which Christ shed on the cross. To add to your inconsistency you say that the blood of the New Covenant is not for us today because the New Covenant is not in effect yet, therefore I keep bringing it to your attention that the blood of the New Covenant can not wash away your sins if it is not for us today. You ignore it when I show you your error but that is all right, the chickens will come to roost.

One thing I have to say is that you are solidly inconsistent. The problem is that you can not see your inconsistency because you are too busy judging everyone else for not believing like you. I pray that one day God will show you your error.

____
Quit the slander. You have made the same accusation before. I have testified numerous times that I have been justified by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, based on the dispensation of the grace of God, not on any "New Covenant" promise made to Israel and Judah, not me. And I have repeatedly declared that my justification is not based on works of any kind, just the opposite of your on record statements promoting works as a basis of justification. Would you want me to post your on record statements, evidencing this perversion of the gospel of Christ? No, I don't think you do.

"... you are too busy judging everyone else for not believing like you."

The old "Can't we all get along"(Rodney King), "all mushrooms are good...who are you to judge?", you are so "mean- spirited, intolerant, judgmental....." kindergarten response.

Kids need repetiton. Therefore:

All of us Christians are strange in some sense. But with reference to this subject of judgment, many think Christianity is something that is so "sweet", that there is no room for bad language/judgment language(and I am not referring to curse words/profanity/ dirty jokes). They subcribe to the unsciptural notion that "judgmental" words can be "unChristian".

They think what you say declares your spirituality to another, and if you say, words which they "opinionate" you should not say, you are not being "Christ-like". However, when one examines the Holy Bible, and searches the speech of the messengers of God, we find that the "sweet spirit of Christ" is sometimes manifested and displayed in bitter, and yes, judgmental terms(Luke 24:25-and see my previous scriptural citations).

Would you consider the Lord Jesus Christ "judgmental", "unloving", or "harsh" when He booted out the moneychangers in Mt. 21:12-13? He harshly and routinely chastised unbelief, hypocrites, false doctrine, and yes, sin. John 7:24 charges us to make righteous judgment. Mt. 7:1, in the context of the entire passage(verses 2-5) is instructing us that if you do not want to be judged or crtiticized, do not judge or criticize others, otherwise others will judge or criticize you by the same standards you use in judging them.

The same measure you give will be the same measure you get, i.e., before finding fault with others, assure yourself you don't have the same or even greater fault within yourself. Thus, this is referring to hypocritical judgment.
If you were to read the entire chapter, including verse 15, you would understand that we can only know "false prophets" if we judge them by the word of God.

Throughout the Holy Bible, we are commanded to make righteous judgment, according to the word of God, and this includes identifying, naming, and exposing sin, and also those who partake in such. Indeed, John 7:24's intent is that if judgment is made on any other basis than the word of God, it is in violation of Mt. 7:1, and that believers must discern or judge on the basis of God's inspired law as contained in the Holy Bible.

The Holy Spirit, through Paul, said it is spiritual for believers to judge all things:

"But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." 1 Cor. 2:15

Examples of scriptural judging? As pertaining to brother/sisters in Christ, we are to judge each other, including the company we keep. The jugment of the unsaved is the LORD God's responsibility("...them also that are without....")-per Romans 1, it is not necessary:

"But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

Thus, we see in 1 Cor. 5:1-13 that Paul "judged"(verse 3) the man guilty of fornication, even though he was not present, and he directed the church at Corinth(the most "carnal" group of believers!) that they were to "judge"(verse 12) "...them that are within..."-believers. Paul did not violate Mt. 7-he was faithful to the biblical principal of righteous judgment, and this judgment was based on the word of God.

Those who are commanded, and who are able, to discern between good and evil, between "...darkness and light..."(Is. 5:20), have at least one of the signs of true spiritual maturity, or "...full age...":

"...are of full age...have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil". Hebrews 5:14

Those who are unwilling, or not capable, of discerning between darkness and light, are in this manner either displaying their disobedience, their ignorance(biblically, ignorant does not mean 'stupid', but 'lack of knowledge'), or their immaturity.

The Holy Bible charges/admonishes us to expose false doctrine, sin, and those who promote such, including judging the false doctrine of a works-based performance system as a basis of justification:

Try them: 1 Jn. 4:1
Mark them and avoid them: Roman 16:17
Rebuke them: Titus 1:9, 13
Have no fellowship with them and reprove them: Eph. 5:11
Withdraw from them: 2 Thes. 3:6, 14,15; 1 Tim. 6:3-5
Turn away from them" 2 Tim. 3:5-7, 4:2
Do not receive them: 2 John 9-11
Reject them: Titus 3:10
Separate ourselves from them(the meaning of sanctification is separation for God's use): 2 Cor. 6:17

Paul placed under a curse anyone who would "...pervert the gospel of Christ...."(Galatians 1:6-9). Perhaps Paul was too "judgmental"?!

How about this for a "no spin" answer as to why I judge your perverted gospel as sin: Because the LORD God says it is His word. Not too complicated, is it?


Telling people the truth as revealed in the Holy Bible is love, and this should be our motivation, regardless of the cost, whether that cost take the form of loss of friendships(and this includes friendships with fellow believers-Amos 3:3), or enduring being labeled as "intolerant', "judgmental",and the like. Granted, this must be done by "...speaking the truth in love...(Eph. 4:15), and in meekness:

"Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness(emphasis mine); considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted." Galatians 6:1

However, if you love someone, you tell them the truth as scripture reveals it, whether they want to hear it or not. Truth must not be sacrificed(compromised) at the altar of today's so-called enlightened, non-judgmental, "tolerant" culture. The apostle Paul perhaps best summed it up when he asked the poignant question:

"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?" Galatians 4:16

How right Isaiah was when he lamented: "...my people doth not consider"(Isaiah 1:3), and the shout of pharoah resounds:

"...Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice....?"(Exodus 5:2).

Once again, you reflect/display the error of not knowing the difference between tolerating people and tolerating ideas-this is crystallized by your post. How about all believers resolving to propose this rationality: There are some things that are true, and there are some things that are false. Here is the inevitable result of subscribing to the "in thing" sweeping this country, and this "evil world"(Galatians 1:4)-the "pluralism" view, i.e., it demands that you must not say that anyone's belief system is inferior, or worse yet, in error. To say someone is wrong is "intolerant", to be "close-minded", to be "mean-spirited", to be "extreme", to be "divisive", to be a "trouble maker", to be a "bully", to be "unrespectful" , is to be guilty of "harassment", or, last, but not least, to be "unchristian" and "judgmental."

This "open mindedness", this "loving tolerance", says that I should not criticize other people's beliefs-"You are so intolerant and judgmental." And those that proclaim the truth from the divine perspective, and refuse to "... call evil good.... put darkness for light.... put bitter for sweet...."(Isaiah 5:20) are "bashed", criticized, vilified, ridiculed......The hypocrisy of such a view is apparent in the "moral" judgment these proponents of this so-called "tolerance" spew out day after day. They have a self-defeating argument, and a silly view of "tolerance". According to this message,in order to tolerate someone and be "loving", I cannot assert my "argument"as being correct, i.e., it is "condemning", it is "judgmental". And these so called "enlightened, sweet, reasonable" "actors"(definition of a hypocrite-perhaps this explains the depravity of "Hollywood") are doing the same thing-people rant and rave about being "judgmental", "condemning"-all the time delivering their own judgements! Is it "tolerant", or "judgmental", to say something is true when it is really false? That is like saying "All mushrooms are good to eat". No, they are not. Not all mushrooms are good-some will kill you. A works-based performance system as a basis for justication, as you support, is under a curse-period. And I refuse to use non- biblical words in conveying this. The LORD God does not use word semantics, double-speak, weasel words, or euphemisms. Nor will I.



Christians have a new identity "in Christ." And with this identity we are admonished not to make the error of confusing tolerance for people, who they are, from tolerating ideas. The biblical definition of tolerance makes a distinction between people and their religious beliefs.

This means that people should have the legal freedom to practice the "religion" of their choice, and that we, as believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, should lovingly respect and love them, even if we conclude, from the divine perspective, the Holy Bible, that their beliefs are false.

But this does not imply that we should tolerate their ideas if it is an affront to the truth of the word of God, including the sin issue. We must not, and cannot, confuse the issue of tolerance for people in matters of cultural ("diversity" in dress, food, music, language.....), with matters of truth(religious belief and morality). We must not confuse preference("I prefer vanilla ice creme"), with principal("Some mushrooms are not good and will kill you"=sin).

This is all consistent with the popular mind set of this world, which many/most(?) have either consciously or unconsciously accepted- the "philosophical relativism", new definition of "diversity"/"tolerance" that dominates "...this present evil world....Galatians 1:4), i.e., "There is no such thing as absolute truth, specifically in regards to what is right or wrong(sin); that we must accept everyone's standard; different people can define truth in conflicting ways and still be correct.


We must not say 'Some mushrooms will kill-that is intolerant." By this warm, fuzzy, "Can't we all get along"(Rodney King) buzzword of "tolerance,(and forget about the sin issue), most are promoting the notion that all ideas, including behavior, is acceptable, which is an affront to a Holy LORD God, and an affront and contradiction to everything the Holy Bible instructs about sin from Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21.

Today's "tolerance" is the virtue of those who have no standards, or manipulate a standard to satisfy their "lusts of the flesh". This mirrors what President Bill Clinton said, when speaking to a secular group on a sexual issue: "We must broaden our imagination"(Judges 21:45).

And never mind that the Holy Bible testifies that "the imagination of man's heart is evil", and warns repeatedly against broadening the "narrow way"(Matthew 7:14). No, truth can never be allowed to be broadened. The authority of narrow truth is the Holy Bible, and not ourselves and our "opinion", our own thinking, "...the wisdom of the world...", since our minds are deceitful, and our wisdom is "...foolishness with God...."(1 Cor. 3:19).

We are to be tolerant where the LORD God is tolerant, and not be tolerant where the LORD God is not tolerant. "Tolerance", from the divine viewpoint, does not replace love, righteousness, forgiveness, justification ,or redemption.The word of God is clear that His will is that sin be exposed, acknowledged, repented of(repent means "to change one's mind"), forgiven, or judged-but not for the sake of peace and unity, i.e., "diversity". The tolerance most embrace is not the tolerance described in the Holy Bible, and is certainly not a basis of "the gospel of Christ".

The cross of our great Saviour, the only Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ means many different things to many different people, to many different "so-called" Christian groups("Substitutionary Atonement", "Moral Influence", "Ransom"....), but what it is not, if the Holy Bible is to be believed, is a lesson in tolerance.

If our "...holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty....(Revelation 4:8) were tolerant of sin, He would never have allowed his only begotten Son to have suffered such a humiliating and horrendous death by blood on our behalf, in our place, for fallen,degraded, guilty, filthy, rag-covered, lost, wretched, and rotten sinners such as you and me once were.

Not only is the cross of Christ the public demonstration of divine love, and the end of religion, the final posting of the "closed" sign on the "sweatshop" of the human races' never ending struggle to think well of itself(pride). it is also a vivid, public demonstration of a Holy LORD God's absolute, uncompromising INTOLERANCE FOR SIN.

Your doctrine on justification(again, I will provide the posts) is not a disagreement, is not merely a "mistake"-it is sin. And it is that simple. And I will judge your doctrine/statements every time.
Again, would you like me to post your on-record statements promoting a works-based performance system in this dispensation, which includes water baptismy? You have been called. Now, either fold, or shut your mouth(Psalms 63:11).

In Christ,
John M. Whalen

 

[eph3Nine]

John said...and quite well too, I might add...

We are to be tolerant where the LORD God is tolerant, and not be tolerant where the LORD God is not tolerant. "Tolerance", from the divine viewpoint, does not replace love, righteousness, forgiveness, justification ,or redemption.The word of God is clear that His will is that sin be exposed, acknowledged, repented of(repent means "to change one's mind"), forgiven, or judged-but not for the sake of peace and unity, i.e., "diversity". The tolerance most embrace is not the tolerance described in the Holy Bible, and is certainly not a basis of "the gospel of Christ".

The cross of our great Saviour, the only Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ means many different things to many different people, to many different "so-called" Christian groups("Substitutionary Atonement", "Moral Influence", "Ransom"....), but what it is not, if the Holy Bible is to be believed, is a lesson in tolerance.

If our "...holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty....(Revelation 4:8) were tolerant of sin, He would never have allowed his only begotten Son to have suffered such a humiliating and horrendous death by blood on our behalf, in our place, for fallen,degraded, guilty, filthy, rag-covered, lost, wretched, and rotten sinners such as you and me once were.

Not only is the cross of Christ the public demonstration of divine love, and the end of religion, the final posting of the "closed" sign on the "sweatshop" of the human races' never ending struggle to think well of itself(pride). it is also a vivid, public demonstration of a Holy LORD God's absolute, uncompromising INTOLERANCE FOR SIN.

Your doctrine on justification(again, I will provide the posts) is not a disagreement, is not merely a "mistake"-it is sin. And it is that simple. And I will judge your doctrine/statements every time.
Again, would you like me to post your on-record statements promoting a works-based performance system in this dispensation, which includes water baptismy? You have been called. Now, either fold, or shut your mouth(Psalms 63:11).

Aaaaamen, John. And in the words of the famous singer Kenny Rogers "Know when to hold em, know when to fold em"...too bad some dont have the sense to know they should fold. Wink

The problem is that they think that "bluffing" is gonna win them the hand...and everyone knows ya cant bluff God!

 

[GLJCA]

"Quit the slander. You have made the same accusation before. I have testified numerous times that I have been justified by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, based on the dispensation of the grace of God, not on any "New Covenant" promise made to Israel and Judah, not me. And I have repeatedly declared that my justification is not based on works of any kind, just the opposite of your on record statements promoting works as a basis of justification. Would you want me to post your on record statements, evidencing this perversion of the gospel of Christ? No, I don't think you do.

JM, first of all I need to ask. Are you dividing the blood of Christ now? The blood of Christ is the blood of the New Covenant. Try as hard as you want you can not change that. The blood that Christ shed on the cross, in His own words, was the blood of the New Covenant. Now that is the only blood that can wash away your sins. I just can't believe that you can not see the inconsistency in your stand here.

If the blood of Christ is the blood of the New Covenant and that is the same blood that washes away your sins then the New Covenant is in effect today. If it is not then you, sir, are lost in your sin and have no hope until the New Covenant comes into effect.

There is no way around it, JM. You can not say I was saved by the blood of Christ and ignore that fact that Christ's blood was the blood of the New Covenant. Again I will repeat if the New Covenant is not in effect today then you are lost in your sin.

The sad thing is that you can't even admit that the blood of Christ is the blood of the New Covenant. Have you noticed that you haven't said that fact? Paul "the apostle to the Gentiles" said that it was the blood of the New Covenant in 1Cor 11:25 After the same manner also [he took] the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink [it], in remembrance of me.
NO WAY AROUND IT,JM. Either the New Covenant is in effect today or your sins are still intact and you are without hope.

Once again, you reflect/display the error of not knowing the difference between tolerating people and tolerating ideas-this is crystallized by your post. How about all believers resolving to propose this rationality: There are some things that are true, and there are some things that are false. Here is the inevitable result of subscribing to the "in thing" sweeping this country, and this "evil world"(Galatians 1:4)-the "pluralism" view, i.e., it demands that you must not say that anyone's belief system is inferior, or worse yet, in error. To say someone is wrong is "intolerant", to be "close-minded", to be "mean-spirited", to be "extreme", to be "divisive", to be a "trouble maker", to be a "bully", to be "unrespectful" , is to be guilty of "harassment", or, last, but not least, to be "unchristian" and "judgmental."

Secondly, since I am the one opposing your views and since I am the one that is saying that you are wrong and you are the one who is getting mad and stopping the discussion, then I take it that the above paragraph is talking about me. You see I am not tolerant of false doctrine infiltrating the Church of Jesus Christ. I tell you the truth and ask you questions that bring you to the point of seeing your error because I am trying to show you the holes in your theology. The problem is that when presented with these errors you get mad, and instead of being a good Berean, you immediately reject it because it doesn't fit with what you believe. The truth is not popular but it is still the truth and I will not back down from sharing it. If you will not listen then hopefully someone who is considering your false teaching will see the truth.

1. I have shown you that your interpretation of Daniel 2:44 is bogus yet you still use the scripture for a reference. You will not answer the question that I have asked because you know that it will show your bad interpretation of the verse.

2. I have shown you conclusively that Peter and Paul preached the same exact gospel and yet you reject the Word of God and keep teaching that there are two different gospels when the Word shows only one.

3. I have shown you that the blood of Jesus Christ was the blood of the New Covenant and it is the same blood that you say washed away your sins yet you still maintain that the New Covenant is not in effect today, again ignoring the Word of God.

4. I have shown you that the "coming of the Lord in the clouds was a figurative phrase speaking of God's judgment coming upon Israel in AD70 yet you just ignore the truth directly from scripture.

These are just a few of the areas where you have rejected the Word of God and turned a blind eye to the truth as told in scripture. Now you can keep getting mad at me and saying all kinds of things about me but it is the Word of God who will be your judge.

The thing you have to worry about is that because you are preaching another gospel then as Paul says, you will be cursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
You know what that means? It means that if you persist then you will go to Hell. I don't want to see that happen therefore I am telling you the truth. I am not mad at you but I am going to tell you the truth whether it hurts or not.

GLJCA

 

[JMWHALEN]

"Secondly, since I am the one opposing your views and since I am the one that is saying that you are wrong and you are the one who is getting mad and stopping the discussion, then I take it that the above paragraph is talking about me. You see I am not tolerant of false doctrine infiltrating the Church of Jesus Christ. I tell you the truth and ask you questions that bring you to the point of seeing your error because I am trying to show you the holes in your theology. The problem is that when presented with these errors you get mad, and instead of being a good Berean, you immediately reject it because it doesn't fit with what you believe. The truth is not popular but it is still the truth and I will not back down from sharing it. If you will not listen then hopefully someone who is considering your false teaching will see the truth."



My Comment: Are you in kindergarten? Can you read?(rhetorical Q)My comment was directed at your own, on record statement, and had absolutely nothing to do with discussing doctrinal points. Here is what you said, and which I specfically addressed::

"... you are too busy judging everyone else for not believing like you."



I judge false doctrine, such as yours, and will every time. My response was directed at your own, on record statement that we are not to judge others like I do, i.e., this is your argument. I merely ponted out the invalidity of your argument. One more time for a kid. Your words:

"... you are too busy judging everyone else for not believing like you."

(And your question is one that "commits suicide": you are judging me for supposedly "judging others"! TILT)


Please refrain from responding to my posts, until you understand your own argument. Again, discussing doctrinal points with you, as stated earlier, is like "re arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic." I will only make commentaries on your posts as it pertains to rebuking you on salvation/justification issues, as when you promote a works-based system of acceptance by God(which you do).



In Christ,

John M. Whalen

 

[GLJCA]

"Secondly, since I am the one opposing your views and since I am the one that is saying that you are wrong and you are the one who is getting mad and stopping the discussion, then I take it that the above paragraph is talking about me. You see I am not tolerant of false doctrine infiltrating the Church of Jesus Christ. I tell you the truth and ask you questions that bring you to the point of seeing your error because I am trying to show you the holes in your theology. The problem is that when presented with these errors you get mad, and instead of being a good Berean, you immediately reject it because it doesn't fit with what you believe. The truth is not popular but it is still the truth and I will not back down from sharing it. If you will not listen then hopefully someone who is considering your false teaching will see the truth."



My Comment: Are you in kindergarten? Can you read?(rhetorical Q)My comment was directed at your own, on record statement, and had absolutely nothing to do with discussing doctrinal points. Here is what you said, and which I specfically addressed::

"... you are too busy judging everyone else for not believing like you."



I judge false doctrine, such as yours, and will every time. My response was directed at your own, on record statement that we are not to judge others like I do, i.e., this is your argument. I merely ponted out the invalidity of your argument. One more time for a kid. Your words:

"... you are too busy judging everyone else for not believing like you."

(And your question is one that "commits suicide": you are judging me for supposedly "judging others"! TILT)


Please refrain from responding to my posts, until you understand your own argument. Again, discussing doctrinal points with you, as stated earlier, is like "re arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic." I will only make commentaries on your posts as it pertains to rebuking you on salvation/justification issues, as when you promote a works-based system of acceptance by God(which you do).



In Christ,

John M. Whalen

Hey that Titanic thing was pretty good but seriously do you have anger management problems. You sure do get upset over the smallest thing I say. You know the Pharisees got mad at Jesus, Peter, Stephen, Paul, and all the other apostles when they opposed their false teaching also.

This is a good example of your attitude toward others my friend. You want me to refrain from responding to your posts but you will still respond to mine so as to rebuke something that I say. You think that the rules don't apply to you, just to others around you. You are a trip, sir, but I am sorry to disappoint you but I will respond to your posts anytime I desire.

Oh and by the way I do not promote a works based acceptance of God. I do believe that salvation is by grace through faith and God has created me unto good works that I should walk in them. I believe that by my works is my faith perfected. If we say that we know Him but don't keep His commandments we are liars. Paul taught the same thing so if I am wrong then he was also.

Have a great day, JM
GLJCA

 

[JMWHALEN]

Hey that Titanic thing was pretty good but seriously do you have anger management problems. You sure do get upset over the smallest thing I say. You know the Pharisees got mad at Jesus, Peter, Stephen, Paul, and all the other apostles when they opposed their false teaching also.

This is a good example of your attitude toward others my friend. You want me to refrain from responding to your posts but you will still respond to mine so as to rebuke something that I say. You think that the rules don't apply to you, just to others around you. You are a trip, sir, but I am sorry to disappoint you but I will respond to your posts anytime I desire.

Oh and by the way I do not promote a works based acceptance of God. I do believe that salvation is by grace through faith and God has created me unto good works that I should walk in them. I believe that by my works is my faith perfected. If we say that we know Him but don't keep His commandments we are liars. Paul taught the same thing so if I am wrong then he was also.

Have a great day, JM
GLJCA

___
"Hey that Titanic thing was pretty good but seriously do you have anger management problems. You sure do get upset over the smallest thing I say. You know the Pharisees got mad at Jesus, Peter, Stephen, Paul, and all the other apostles when they opposed their false teaching also. "

My comment: Still does not know his own argument="judging people" vs. judging false doctrine. And thanks for your "psyco-babble", Dr. Phil.

"This is a good example of your attitude toward others my friend. You want me to refrain from responding to your posts but you will still respond to mine so as to rebuke something that I say."

MC: I will rebuke your perversion of the gospel of Christ every time.

"Oh and by the way I do not promote a works based acceptance of God. I do believe that salvation is by grace through faith and God has created me unto good works that I should walk in them. I believe that by my works is my faith perfected. If we say that we know Him but don't keep His commandments we are liars. Paul taught the same thing so if I am wrong then he was also.

MC:

Your words:
"Paul was teaching here that their reconciliation depended on their continuance in the faith."

Would you like to see your quotes on water baptism and circumcision?

" If we say that we know Him but don't keep His commandments we are liars."

Hypocrite. How many of the 613 "commandments" have you broken?



In Christ,

John M. Whalen

 

[eph3Nine]

John said:

Please refrain from responding to my posts, until you understand your own argument. Again, discussing doctrinal points with you, as stated earlier, is like "re arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic." I will only make commentaries on your posts as it pertains to rebuking you on salvation/justification issues, as when you promote a works-based system of acceptance by God(which you do).

Smart move, John. When one has set himself up in opposition to clear directives from God pertaining to this current dispensation, aint much we can do but show em their error and then let the chips fall where they may. I dont think they realize that they have been taken captive by the devil to do his will....but that doesnt make them any less WILLING prisoners of war, now does it?

2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; (what is the truth? That God has changed programs!)

2 Timothy 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. (God wants people to recover themselves OUT of this snare by believing Pauls information)