God lies(?)

[Antar]

Hello I am new to these forums,

I was doing some bible reading yesterday when I came across the account in 1 Kings 22. Verses 22-24 read this way (New International Version)


"One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.'

22 " 'By what means?' the LORD asked.

" 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said.

" 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD . 'Go and do it.'

23 "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."

24 Then Zedekiah son of Kenaanah went up and slapped Micaiah in the face. "Which way did the spirit from the LORD go when he went from me to speak to you?" he asked. "



It appears in this text that god had a hand in deceiving or lying to the prophets of the king of Israel. But Titus 1:2 clearly states

"God cannot lie"

So how then can he have this title when he was involved with deceiving Israel’s prophets witch eventually led to the death of the king of Israel at the end of chapter 1 Kings 22?

 

[Zaac]

Hello I am new to these forums,

I was doing some bible reading yesterday when I came across the account in 1 Kings 22. Verses 22-24 read this way (New International Version)


"One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.'

22 " 'By what means?' the LORD asked.

" 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said.

" 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD . 'Go and do it.'

23 "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."

24 Then Zedekiah son of Kenaanah went up and slapped Micaiah in the face. "Which way did the spirit from the LORD go when he went from me to speak to you?" he asked. "



It appears in this text that god had a hand in deceiving or lying to the prophets of the king of Israel. But Titus 1:2 clearly states

"God cannot lie"

So how then can he have this title when he was involved with deceiving Israel’s prophets witch eventually led to the death of the king of Israel at the end of chapter 1 Kings 22?

14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f] 16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?” 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath–prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory– 24even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? Romans 9:14-24

 

[Ledifni]

14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f] 16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?” 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath–prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory– 24even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? Romans 9:14-24

I don't think the question had anything to do with God's justness. The question had to do with a direct contraction -- God cannot lie, and yet he does. Whether or not the lie is just, the fact is that one part of the Bible says God can't lie, and another part describes God telling a lie.

 

[Blackmarch]

Hello I am new to these forums,

I was doing some bible reading yesterday when I came across the account in 1 Kings 22. Verses 22-24 read this way (New International Version)


"One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.'

22 " 'By what means?' the LORD asked.

" 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said.

" 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD . 'Go and do it.'

23 "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."

24 Then Zedekiah son of Kenaanah went up and slapped Micaiah in the face. "Which way did the spirit from the LORD go when he went from me to speak to you?" he asked. "



It appears in this text that god had a hand in deceiving or lying to the prophets of the king of Israel. But Titus 1:2 clearly states

"God cannot lie"

So how then can he have this title when he was involved with deceiving Israel’s prophets witch eventually led to the death of the king of Israel at the end of chapter 1 Kings 22?

Well when errors seep in over time, as well as along with many translations... it's bound to happen sometime.

 

[Antar]

A lie is defined as "1. a false statement or action, especially one made with intent to deceive . . . 2. anything that gives or is meant to give a false impression." The intention is to cause others to believe something that the liar knows is not the truth. By lies or half-truths, he strives to deceive those who are entitled to know the truth.


Proverbs 6:16-19 (New International Version)

16 There are six things the LORD hates,

seven that are detestable to him:

17 haughty eyes,

a lying tongue,

hands that shed innocent blood,

18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,

feet that are quick to rush into evil,

19 a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.


1 Kings 22:20-23 (New International Version)

And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?'

"One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.'

22 " 'By what means?' the LORD asked.

" 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said.

" 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD . 'Go and do it.' 23 "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours.

 

[Blessed2003]

Well when errors seep in over time, as well as along with many translations... it's bound to happen sometime.

If that is indeed true then we put WAY too much stock in the Bible, and it must not be trusted anywhere if not everywhere, don't you agree?


As for the lying spirits I do not fully know. Only this, that God is not a liar, and He IS LOVE, besides the fact that I DO believe in the Christ, religon, no, rules that make one right, no, for Love is the end of the Law, and the Spirit is written upon our hearts and minds (YES HE HAS) the laws of God all Holy, and geeze I'm even scared to use that word now, since it could be mistranslated too! FTR when I use the word Holy it describes a One of a Kind Father of Spirit who has made His Home among man, and is Supreme Creator, and WAY WAY better then I have ever dreamed, by what I've known ALREADY, is, and most definately I believe we will all be totally stunned....

I have been........

Peace,
B

 

[Antar]

Well when errors seep in over time, as well as along with many translations... it's bound to happen sometime.

Are you implying that this is a miss translation and if so what do you base that conclusion on? (all the other translations I checked have the same meaning)

 

[Blessed2003]

A lie is defined as "1. a false statement or action, especially one made with intent to deceive . . . 2. anything that gives or is meant to give a false impression." The intention is to cause others to believe something that the liar knows is not the truth. By lies or half-truths, he strives to deceive those who are entitled to know the truth.


Proverbs 6:16-19 (New International Version)

16 There are six things the LORD hates,

seven that are detestable to him:

17 haughty eyes,

a lying tongue,

hands that shed innocent blood,

18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,

feet that are quick to rush into evil,

19 a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.


1 Kings 22:20-23 (New International Version)

And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?'

"One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.'

22 " 'By what means?' the LORD asked.

" 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said.

" 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD . 'Go and do it.' 23 "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours.

dear Father of Spirits
why must this be
for just this morning
this verse came to me
I fret dear
for I have not an answer
for the questions that flood my mind
for the Ways of God, above ALL
they alone are true
and who in their right mind
can fathom His Ways
were but dirt
let us give Him Praise
if a spirit who lies
was sent so He
God of All
and ALL HOLY
could be prevented from lying
then so be it
He knows best
for in His paths
we walk
for His Names Sake
and His Righteousness
hopefully we can be satisfied
with the meat of heaven
Manna I believe
for soon out of this desert
We shall be

For He and He alone
is Glorious today
whether or not
the bible tells truth
look inside
the Spirit will have to do
Follow the Lamb wherever He leads
and soon we will all find our relief~

 

[Zaac]

I don't think the question had anything to do with God's justness. The question had to do with a direct contraction -- God cannot lie, and yet he does. Whether or not the lie is just, the fact is that one part of the Bible says God can't lie, and another part describes God telling a lie.

And again I din't ask you what you thought. If the OP wants to take the scripture mentioned to God in prayer, let him. Your response to what the quoted scripture has to do with is inconsequential.

 

[Antar]

if a spirit who lies
was sent so He
God of All
and ALL HOLY
could be prevented from lying
then so be it

Does this then mean that Satan is not a liar? After all he used a snake to deceive Eve. Technically it was the snake that told Eve the lie and not Satan.

 

[Blessed2003]

Does this then mean that Satan is not a liar? After all he used a snake to deceive Eve. Technically it was the snake that told Eve the lie and not Satan.

nope

and


i


don't

know


i'm


sorry

 

[Ledifni]

And again I din't ask you what you thought. If the OP wants to take the scripture mentioned to God in prayer, let him. Your response to what the quoted scripture has to do with is inconsequential.

Excuse me, Zaac, I wasn't talking about what you said, I was talking about what he said, which you badly misunderstood. You're quite a character, my friend. You hear only what you want to hear.

Now, the OP did not ask whether it was just for God to lie, it asked why there is a contradiction. I suggest you accept the correction and move on, rather than spouting inane nonsense that has nothing to do with what anyone is saying.

 

[Blessed2003]

A lie is defined as "1. a false statement or action, especially one made with intent to deceive . . . 2. anything that gives or is meant to give a false impression." The intention is to cause others to believe something that the liar knows is not the truth. By lies or half-truths, he strives to deceive those who are entitled to know the truth.


Proverbs 6:16-19 (New International Version)

16 There are six things the LORD hates,

seven that are detestable to him:

17 haughty eyes,

a lying tongue,

hands that shed innocent blood,

18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,

feet that are quick to rush into evil,

19 a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.


1 Kings 22:20-23 (New International Version)

And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?'

"One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.'

22 " 'By what means?' the LORD asked.

" 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said.

" 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD . 'Go and do it.' 23 "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours.

Hello...I decided to come back for more, lol...Seriously, I'd like to get somewhere with this if it's possible.

First of all, let's clarify. In the way I see it God was not the One who was lying for one thing, so that couldn't be a contridaction, do you agree or disagree, I think that's a good starting point to go somewhere else..Let me make sure you got my point. So, TECHNICALLY God is not the liar, the other spirit did the lying, wouldn't that then not contridict (sorry for my bad spelling) the bible that says "God can not lie" okay, i think i was clear enough.

Waiting on your answer,
Blessed~

 

[robot24]

i think that people pick and choose what they want to believe out of the bible ,
in this instance some choose not to take the god telling a spirit to lie as true so that it wont contradict the other
i find this is common in other instances as well
its a perfect tool to pick some passages, ignore others to back up an opinion
i find its not very logical however
but thats just me

 

[Antar]

Hello...I decided to come back for more, lol...Seriously, I'd like to get somewhere with this if it's possible.

First of all, let's clarify. In the way I see it God was not the One who was lying for one thing, so that couldn't be a contridaction, do you agree or disagree, I think that's a good starting point to go somewhere else..Let me make sure you got my point. So, TECHNICALLY God is not the liar, the other spirit did the lying, wouldn't that then not contridict (sorry for my bad spelling) the bible that says "God can not lie" okay, i think i was clear enough.

Waiting on your answer,
Blessed~

Then using this same logic one would have to conclude that Satan did not tell the original lie, rather the physical snake in the garden deceived eve. Do you agree?

EDIT:Also if GOD hates a lying tongue why would he condon the actions of the spirit?

 

[Antar]

Proverbs 6:16-19 (New International Version)

16 There are six things the LORD hates,

seven that are detestable to him:

17 haughty eyes,

a lying tongue,

hands that shed innocent blood,

18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,

feet that are quick to rush into evil,

19 a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

Also proverbs said GOD hates a false witness and a man who stirs up dissensions. In this case Judah and Israel were brothers trying to retake land that was rightfully theirs. In this account GOD acts against their interests by approving the spirit to go forth and deceive 400 prophets that were supposed to be speaking the truth. This led to dissension between Mi·cai´ah and Zed·e·ki´ah (see 1 Kings 22:24-28). How can GOD do what he hates?

EDIT:dissension = Difference of opinion; disagreement.

1 Kings 22:24-28 (New International Version)

24 Then Zedekiah son of Kenaanah went up and slapped Micaiah in the face. "Which way did the spirit from the LORD go when he went from me to speak to you?" he asked.

25 Micaiah replied, "You will find out on the day you go to hide in an inner room."

26 The king of Israel then ordered, "Take Micaiah and send him back to Amon the ruler of the city and to Joash the king's son 27 and say, 'This is what the king says: Put this fellow in prison and give him nothing but bread and water until I return safely.' " 28 Micaiah declared, "If you ever return safely, the LORD has not spoken through me." Then he added, "Mark my words, all you people!"


In this account GOD is directly involved in stirring up dissension.

 

[Blackmarch]

Are you implying that this is a miss translation and if so what do you base that conclusion on? (all the other translations I checked have the same meaning)

Not necessarily, but that it might be, More along the lines because that has happened, that is one of the things that cause divisions in Christianity. It may be the error is not in the translation but in what is thought to be understood or in context... Or it could be how it's being seen and tied to each other.

God does not lie, nor does he put lies in others mouths.

If that is indeed true then we put WAY too much stock in the Bible, and it must not be trusted anywhere if not everywhere, don't you agree?


As for the lying spirits I do not fully know. Only this, that God is not a liar, and He IS LOVE, besides the fact that I DO believe in the Christ, religon, no, rules that make one right, no, for Love is the end of the Law, and the Spirit is written upon our hearts and minds (YES HE HAS) the laws of God all Holy, and geeze I'm even scared to use that word now, since it could be mistranslated too! FTR when I use the word Holy it describes a One of a Kind Father of Spirit who has made His Home among man, and is Supreme Creator, and WAY WAY better then I have ever dreamed, by what I've known ALREADY, is, and most definately I believe we will all be totally stunned....

I have been........

Peace,
B

One would probably say those who put everything in the bible probably put too much stock in it (though if one had choose between one or the other too much is probably preferred).. On the other those that don't put any are probably going to miss a the great amounts of truth and teachings that are in it. that is one of the reasons we are to pray and be faithful. It's also there to help us get to the point of being able to recieve inspiration and even revelation from God.

 

[robot24]

God does not lie, nor does he put lies in others mouths.

the bible says he did put a lie in other mouths though
this is an example where i find people say that some parts of the bible aren't true and some are to be taken literally

 

[kedaman]

Hello I am new to these forums,

I was doing some bible reading yesterday when I came across the account in 1 Kings 22. Verses 22-24 read this way (New International Version)


"One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.'

22 " 'By what means?' the LORD asked.

" 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said.

" 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD . 'Go and do it.'

23 "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."

24 Then Zedekiah son of Kenaanah went up and slapped Micaiah in the face. "Which way did the spirit from the LORD go when he went from me to speak to you?" he asked. "



It appears in this text that god had a hand in deceiving or lying to the prophets of the king of Israel. But Titus 1:2 clearly states

"God cannot lie"

So how then can he have this title when he was involved with deceiving Israel’s prophets witch eventually led to the death of the king of Israel at the end of chapter 1 Kings 22?

The simple answer is that putting a lying spirit in the mouth of those prophets does not mean lying.

If the scripture contained these statements:

1. God cannot lie
2. God puts lying spirit in the mouth of said prophets.
3. Putting lying spirits in the mouth of said prophets means lying.

then it is safe to say that the scripture is inconsistent. So where is the third statement?

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Then using this same logic one would have to conclude that Satan did not tell the original lie, rather the physical snake in the garden deceived eve. Do you agree?

First off, Satan didn't have the power to 'allow' something or not allow, that is God's domain. God allowed that and he allowed the spirit in question, if I read it correctly and if your quote is correct (I didn't bother to look it up myself).
The serpent wouldn't have the ability to lie to Eve, serpents don't normally speak - that is if one were to go literal (or even if you went metaphorical, the same result applies).

EDIT:Also if GOD hates a lying tongue why would he condon the actions of the spirit?

God hates divorce as well, but due to His long suffering and how His plan all fits together, I see where He allows or withdraws His influence in order to allow that which He knows will happen for an example of bad for the rest or to give example of life without Him.