God isn't in "time"

[Emre1974tr]

God made the time for us. But God never in time. Never has got time.

past time................now....................future time

We are in "now" spot. And we walking to future time spots.

We must travelling in time spots.

But God in forever time spots. God never in now only. İn now, in past time, in future and in forever time spots. Other saying; God hasn't got time.

Now, future and past are for us. Not for God.

So God never travelling in time spots. Because in all spots.

İf you can find time travelling machine. İf you go to past time or future time. You will see, God in all spots.

So this our test life is symbolic test life.

İn God's eye, we are in armageddon day now, we are in paradise or hell now. And we aren't genesis yet now(in past spots). God in all time spots, in same time.

God made us and universe in anything spot. And made the "time" for us.

Best regards and peace.

 

[DailyBlessings]

I... think I agree with you.

 

[us38]

The problem, is something timeless cannot interact with something that is temporal.

 

[DailyBlessings]

The problem, is something timeless cannot interact with something that is temporal.

Why not? I would think that it could interact with the temporal in whatever way it chooses.

 

[elman]

The problem, is something timeless cannot interact with something that is temporal.

Why not?

 

[elman]

Why not?

I posted before reading the prior question which was the same as mine. Sorry.

 

[The Nihilist]

us38 has made the historically proper criticism, but honestly, I agree with elman and DailyBlessings; I just never felt like it held much water.

 

[RobertS22]

Who created God in this timeless environment then?

Who created the being that created that one?
Who created the being that created that one?
Who created the being that created that one?
Who created the being that created that one?

This is called Infinite Regression, which means however you put it we don't know for sure, never will.

 

[DailyBlessings]

Who created God in this timeless environment then?

"Created" is a word that has no meaning in a timeless environment, for it implies a change in nature over time. Something cannot begin to exist, or cease to be, if that thing by definition exists at all points in time. It simply (from our point of view) is.
So what does your question mean, if anything at all?

This is called Infinite Regression, which means however you put it we don't know for sure, never will.

I know what it is called, and it is irrelevant to the discussion. Only if you are going to argue that God is bound to the temporal nature of our universe, would your objection make sense.

 

[fuzzyh]

I'm still playing with these ideas in my head. The school I'm attending is heavily Thomistic and thus God is outside of time view is prominent. However, I am personally influenced by William Lane Craig and JP Moreland and they hold that God was outside of time, before time, but now he is in time.

I'm not certain how one solves the temporal vs intemporal problem, but I just haven't spent a whole lot of time thinking on this yet.

Give me 6 months, and I ought to take the class God, Time and Foreknowledge.

 

[Asimov]

"Created" is a word that has no meaning in a timeless environment, for it implies a change in nature over time. Something cannot begin to exist, or cease to be, if that thing by definition exists at all points in time. It simply (from our point of view) is.

So? God can't create then since he lives in a timeless environment.

He can't interact with the temporal because he can't act.

Time implies only the the measure between two actions, so it really has nothing to do with change in nature.

 

[Tynan]

This whole notion of existing outside of time is a nonsense.

Christians regularly raise this as a tool to answer otherwise impossible to explain situation, but the notion of 'outside of time' is nothing more than nonsense idea.

 

[RealDeal]

This whole notion of existing outside of time is a nonsense.

Christians regularly raise this as a tool to answer otherwise impossible to explain situation, but the notion of 'outside of time' is nothing more than nonsense idea.

Agreed. I'd like to see the bible verse where it says god is outside time. If there is one, even though I don't believe in it I'd see the reasoning behind the claim. If not, it's just applying whatever abilities to god you can in order to get him to work.

 

[Eudaimonist]

If God is timeless and therefore cannot change, how could God ever change his mind, for instance by apologizing for the Flood and promising never to do that again? How can God think at all?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[RealDeal]

If God is timeless and therefore cannot change, how could God ever change his mind, for instance by apologizing for the Flood and promising never to do that again? How can God think at all?


eudaimonia,

Mark

I have to say that that is an absolutely fantastic point. You're quite right.

 

[DailyBlessings]

So? God can't create then since he lives in a timeless environment.

Why not? He can interact with things in our sphere, just not the other way around. Being, from our point of view, at all times and spaces, he has complete liberty in manipulating that time and space. We cannot create or destroy God, nor would he be able to create or destroy himself or other Gods within this supposed timeless environment, but there is no reason why he cannot do things within the temporal environment.

He can't interact with the temporal because he can't act.

This is inaccurate- action is only understood through the properties of the universe, but that does not mean that God cannot act, as we perceive it.

Time implies only the the measure between two actions, so it really has nothing to do with change in nature.

It does if you are talking about creating things that previously did not exist in any material form. I think a lot of people would challenge your definition of time anyway.

Agreed. I'd like to see the bible verse where it says god is outside time. If there is one, even though I don't believe in it I'd see the reasoning behind the claim. If not, it's just applying whatever abilities to god you can in order to get him to work.

The Bible is not a science book- I'm sure you are only too aware of the problems that occur when people try to turn it into one. However, it does state that God created the universe. Since time is an aspect of the universe, God must not be constrained to it. I would however agree that God is not "outside" of time, as this suggests to me an unhealthy paradigm of natural/supernatural realms. A more panentheistic outlook would simply be that God's omnipresence extends not only to all spaces, but also all times, and that therefore His actions and movements, if you will, are not constrained by the same forces that constrain ours.

If God is timeless and therefore cannot change, how could God ever change his mind, for instance by apologizing for the Flood and promising never to do that again? How can God think at all?

Actions such as these are perceived and recorded by temporal creatures. How we perceive God and how God perceives himself are not necessarily the same animal, and indeed the Scriptures state on many occasions that God is unchanging. To begin to understand God, one must learn to think outside the box.

 

[Tynan]

Such laughable rubbish predicated on a need to support the supernatural and mystical beliefs of people who thought the earth was flat and thunder was a sign of an angry god.

What is outside of time ?

If your answer is something to the effect of "we are only earthly and cannot understand the mysteries of god" then why hold these ideas up as personal knowledge, be honest, the notion of 'outside of time' is as nonsensical to you as it is to me.

It is nonsense thought up to help explain nonsense.

 

[DailyBlessings]

As for the objection that Christians are only coming up with arguments to validate their belief, I'd say that this is probably true, but not a problem. If arguments are coming from the quarter of scientific language, then that is the language with which Christianity must speak to defend itself.

Person 1 believes one thing, Person 2 believes another. Person 2 attacks Person 1's beliefs with arguments A, B, and C. Person 1 comes up with counterarguments D, E, F in response to these new arguments. Is person 1 in error? If so, what other course of action would you suggest?

 

[Tynan]

You already posted this exact same thing, earlier in this thread. A random string of insults is no more a reasonable argument now than it was six hours ago. Do you have something more substantive to contribute to the discussion? Otherwise, I should imagine that responding "Well, I think your ideas are nonsense! So there!" would be an equally effective counterargument, and we can simply move on.

Hi Daily Blessings

My point is that Christians such as yourself tend to adopt language to explain the bible that is literally nonsensical.

They have no meaning.

What do you personally understand as 'outside of time' or 'not effected by time' or any of the other logical hoops one must jump through to explain away the magical and supernatural tales in the bible ?

 

[Tynan]

D/p