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God Is Neither Random Nor Capricious In Whom He Hardens Or Hates

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bbbbbbb

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Whoa! Where do you come up with the idea that "The main topic repeated extensively in Romans is the division in the Christian house churches in Rome between the Jews and Gentile Christians."?

The letter which addresses divisions in the church is not Romans, but I Corinthians where the divisions are not between Jews and Gentiles, but much more diverse in nature. Romans is Paul's great exposition of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Paul sets out his theme from the very beginning of the letter.

Romans 1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, 4 who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;
 
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bling

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bling

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Paul is the ideal person to resolve the division between the Jewish and gentile Christians in Rome.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Paul is the ideal person to resolve the division between the Jewish and gentile Christians in Rome.
That is your assumption. We have no evidence of any serious divisions between Jewish and Gentile Christians in Rome. Paul does address that issue in his letter to the church in Ephesus.
 
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bling

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You say: “God in rejecting the Jews”, but Paul says just the opposite in Ro. 11:1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means!

God does not “reject” people causing them to be lost, but some people from any and all nations will humbly accept or reject God’s love causing them to be lost or saved.

God certainly did not ever reject: “There is no difference between Jews and gentiles".

Ro. 10: 4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes…. 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Jews or Gentiles believing in God/Jesus from their hearts, God will save.

Ro. 10: 16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news.

It is only just the acceptance of the free undeserved gift which makes the difference between lost and saved. Which comes with “hearing the message”

21 But concerning Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people.”
 
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Clare73

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You say: “God in rejecting the Jews”, but Paul says just the opposite in Ro. 11:1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means!
Not all Israel is (true) Israel.
God rejected the nation of Israel, but he did not reject his true people in that nation.
 
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bling

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That is your assumption. We have no evidence of any serious divisions between Jewish and Gentile Christians in Rome. Paul does address that issue in his letter to the church in Ephesus.
This takes a chapter-by-chapter study of Romans to proof to the skeptic the meaning and to see the problem being addressed from beginning to end.
 
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Clare73

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This takes a chapter-by-chapter study of Romans to proof to the skeptic the meaning and to see the problem being addressed from beginning to end.
Your chp-by-chp study of Ro does not yield the meaning and problem being addressed in Ro 9-11; i.e., the vindication of God's righteousness in rejecting unbelieving Israel,
whose destiny is to be grafted back into the one olive tree of God's people (Ro 11), the NT church. . .IF (not "when") they do not persist in unbelief (Ro 11:23). . .which they have for 2,000 years now, and counting.

According to NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church, Israel's only destiny is to be grafted back into the church IF they do not persist in unbelief. If they do persist, Israel's destiny is the same as that of all other unbelievers.

God has only one plan. . .to sum up all things in Christ (Eph 1:9-10). Whatever is not in Christ will be destroyed in the end, and there will be a new heaven and new earth, no unbelief and sin, the home of righteousness (2 Pe 3:10-13).
 
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Minister Monardo

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To which, if we can return to the topic, the standard that led to who was hardened. While God is always fully vindicated, many often interpret Romans 9 to suggest the vessels of wrath were chosen at random to serve God's purpose. The OP shows otherwise.
 
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bling

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Not all Israel is (true) Israel.
God rejected the nation of Israel, but he did not reject his true people in that nation.
You are taking the phrase totally out of context by saying Paul is not talking about the nation of Israel, because Paul is very specifically talking about the nation of Israel, just look at the rest of the verse: Ro. 11:1…I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.

Paul did not refer to himself as being part of the elect or a Christian, but is specifically referring to the nation of Israel (descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin).

Yes! Not all Israelites are true Israelites, but in Ro. 1:1 Paul is addressing his fellow Jews (descendants of Abraham).
 
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bling

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Yes it does, but show me how you think it does not?
 
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Clare73

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"Did God reject his people? . . .God did not reject his people whom he foreknew." (Ro 11:2)

"Those God foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son," (Ro 8:29).

Is that a description of the whole nation of Israel?
You are not talking about the same Israel of which Paul is speaking.
Romans is addressing the Christian church of Rome (1:7) who were predominantly Gentile, giving them a systematic theological essay on Christian doctrine--sin, salvation, grace, faith, righteousness, justification, sanctification, redemption, death and resurrection, where in Ro 9-11 he expresses his deep concern for Israel--her present status (rejected), her relationship to the Gentiles (her rejection is their reconciliation to God) and her final salvation (IF--not "when"--she does not persist in unbelief, Ro 11:23).
 
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Clare73

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In context, all mankind by fallen nature has a hardened heart until the Holy Spirit softens it in his sovereign rebirth from spiritual death to eternal life.

All those hearts which the Holy Spirit did not then, and does not now, soften in his sovereign new birth (Jn 3:3-5), his choice of whom being as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:6-8), will reject Christ.
Christ is simply pointing out the evidence of the hearts that the Holy Spirit has not softened to receive the remedy for their condemnation (Ro 5:18).
It all goes back to God holding mankind guilty of Adam's transgression. (Ro 3:9, 5:12).
 
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bbbbbbb

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This takes a chapter-by-chapter study of Romans to proof to the skeptic the meaning and to see the problem being addressed from beginning to end.
Would you care to do this with me? After studying the book of Romans multiple times as well as reading various commentaries and interacting with other Christians concerning the book, I find myself in general agreement with Luther in his commentary. His general conclusion, in case you may be unfamiliar with it, is that Romans can be best understood as being an exposition of the Gospel and, in true Lutheran fashion, Gospel is contrasted with Law.
 
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Minister Monardo

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Not the context of the thread. Many in Israel believed in Jesus. Those who did not were judged based on a specific decision indentified in the scriptures and the OP.
 
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Guojing

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Paul is the ideal person to resolve the division between the Jewish and gentile Christians in Rome.

Jewish Christians is an oxymoronic term to use in trying to understand Romans 9-11.

There are the physical Jews, some believed Jesus as their Messiah, majority do not.

There are the gentiles who believed that Christ died for their sins and rose again for their justification. These are the Christians.
 
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Minister Monardo

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These are the Christians.
Nope. The first Christians were Jews and Hellenists.
Acts 11:
19 Now those who were scattered after the persecution that arose over Stephen
traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to no one but the Jews only.
20 But some of them were men from Cyprus and Cyrene, who, when they had come to Antioch,
spoke to the Hellenists, preaching the Lord Jesus.
21 And the hand of the Lord was with them, and a great number believed and turned to the Lord.
22 Then news of these things came to the ears of the church in Jerusalem,
and they sent out Barnabas to go as far as Antioch.
23 When he came and had seen the grace of God, he was glad, and encouraged them all
that with purpose of heart they should continue with the Lord.
24 For he was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and of faith.
And a great many people were added to the Lord.
25 Then Barnabas departed for Tarsus to seek Saul.
26 And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch.

So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church
and taught a great many people.
And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.
 
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