God is GOOD...not bad.

FrankFaith · Jan 13, 2009

This is an open invitation to post your wealth of information to support your opposition to the OP. PLEASE DO SO or you will be allowing your way of thinking to surely be debunked!

Don't let all of your followers down like this--where is the basis/foundation for your oppostion to the OP?!

...any day now...

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

FrankFaith said:
There is a great difference between good and bad...that some folks do not understand--or choose not to accept. If they knew the God of the Bible, they would know that He does not inflict sickness or disease upon His people to chasten or teach. There is no instance in the Word ANYWHERE of Him doing this...to His people...to chasten or teach.

Bring it...so others can see the Truth.

These folks aren't just mistaken--they actively, purposefully promote anti-faith and purposefully steal others' hope for healing for their own selfish, prideful purposes.

Amazing but true.

Let's have it--start posting all of the many, many times when God:

a. inflicted sickness or disease on His people (believers)
b. for the purpose of teaching or chastening.

We're waiting...

...and by the way, DON'T CHANGE THE SUBJECT--JUST POST ALL OF YOUR MANY, MANY REFERENCES THAT MEET THIS CRITERIA.

ya know what it is bro..

Any fair minded person can see what you did.

You phrased it in such a way,by adding believers...

However add the words "does Go allow" IE..Job...

IE suffering,which is what sick people are doing,sufferring,then you might get a healthy tussle!

Yekcidmij · Jan 13, 2009

FrankFaith said:
There is a great difference between good and bad...that some folks do not understand--or choose not to accept. If they knew the God of the Bible, they would know that He does not inflict sickness or disease upon His people to chasten or teach. There is no instance in the Word ANYWHERE of Him doing this...to His people...to chasten or teach.

Bring it...so others can see the Truth.

Deut 32:39 “See now that I, indeed I, am he!” says the Lord,
“and there is no other god besides me.
I kill and give life,
I wound and I heal,
and none can resist my power.

1 Sam 2:6 The Lord both kills and gives life;
he brings down to the grave and raises up.
2:7 The Lord impoverishes and makes wealthy;
he humbles and he exalts.

2 Kings 5:6 He brought the letter to king of Israel. It read: “This is a letter of introduction for my servant Naaman, whom I have sent to be cured of his skin disease.” 5:7 When the king of Israel read the letter, he tore his clothes and said, “Am I God? Can I kill or restore life?

Job 5:18 For he wounds, but he also bandages;
he strikes, but his hands also heal.

Hos 6:1 “Come on! Let’s return to the Lord!
He himself has torn us to pieces,
but he will heal us!
He has injured us,
but he will bandage our wounds!

The Hosea passage is interesting because Hosea thinks that God had purposely fought against His own people. Ezekiel thinks the same thing:

Eze 5:16 I will shoot against them deadly, destructive arrows of famine, which I will shoot to destroy you. I will prolong a famine on you and will remove the bread supply. 5:17 I will send famine and wild beasts against you and they will take your children from you. Plague and bloodshed will overwhelm you, and I will bring a sword against you. I, the Lord, have spoken!”

So it's incorrect to say that God doesn't inflict His own people. In fact, the exile was God doing and half of the prophetitc and historical writings deal with what God did/was doing to His own people.

JimB · Jan 13, 2009

didaskalos said:
Redefinition of words and concepts.

Pain is bad.
Suffering is bad.
Curses are bad.
Blessings are good.
Hell is pain and bad.
Sin is bad.
Righteousness is good.
Heaven is good.

*****

FrankFaith said:
Thanks, Dids. Needed words.

Where are the naysayers posts? We're waiting.

*If you can't come up with anything here, maybe you should consider NOT EVER POSTING ANTI-FAITH LIES EVER AGAIN IN ANY MANNER IN ANY THREAD HERE!!

Call me crazy, but how can you do that yet not post in this thread?!

FrankFaith said:
We're still waiting...

FrankFaith said:
Still waiting

Apparently, most of us have lost interest in your thread, Frank. Sorry.

And, BTW, shouldnt this thread be in the debate forum since you obviously are trying to stir up a debate?

But to call your (and Dids) hand on this (since you are so eager to debate it in this non-debate forum): for you to say that your small, select side of these issues does not redefine English words to suit your doctrine is like catching a kid with his hand in the cookie jar saying, Who? Me?

Dids list looks at pain, suffering, et. al. from a mere humanistic POV. Of course (most of) those things are "bad" to us, by our definition, because they are often physically painful but in the hands of God those things (excluding hell, of course ) can be good in the sense that God can turn them for good (i.e., God can use them for our good).

But the LORD your God turned the curse into a blessing for you, because the LORD your God loves you. (Deut. 23.5)

When God does that, when He takes a curse and turns it into a blessing, is it still a curse? Or, does the curse become a blessing (in disguise, as they say) when God uses it to bring blessing into our lives.

But as for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as it is this day, to save many people alive. (Gen. 50.20)

Because they met not the children of Israel with bread and with water, but hired Balaam against them, that he should curse them: howbeit our God turned the curse into a blessing. (Neh. 13.2)

Likewise, God can turn what we consider a blessing (like wealth, influence, health, etc.) into a curse for us.

If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart. (Mal. 2.2)

IOW, God sees things differently than we do. What we call a blessing (which usually means nothing much more than material comfort) may not be in God's sight and what we call a curse (like being broke or in bad health) may, in fact, be used by God as a blessing to us and/or others and, therefore, be a blessing.

~Bjorn Free

A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

Here is an oldie but a goodie,that just popped into my ever expanding mind..

Jesus was teaching through it..a sick person was allowed to be sick,then we all learned through it,when we read the scriptures..

Jesus could have stopped laz from being sick,so one could argue God afflicted Laz for His glory!

John 11:3-5 (New International Version)

3So the sisters sent word to Jesus, "Lord, the one you love is sick." 4When he heard this, Jesus said, "This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God's glory so that God's Son may be glorified through it." 5Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus.

FrankFaith · Jan 13, 2009

Can we not read the OP, people? This is no discussion or arguement or debate.

READ THE OP. What part of sickness or disease do you not understand?! Post references to scripture where God has put sickness or disease on His people to teach or chasten. This really shouldn't difficult since your entire basis for disagreement with this whole subject stems from these references.

READ THE OP AND POST YOUR REFERENCES.

FrankFaith · Jan 13, 2009

Can we not read the OP, people? This is no discussion or arguement or debate.

READ THE OP. What part of sickness or disease do you not understand?! Post references to scripture where God has put sickness or disease on His people to teach or chasten. This really shouldn't difficult since your entire basis for disagreement with this whole subject stems from these references.

READ THE OP AND POST YOUR REFERENCES.

JimB · Jan 13, 2009

FrankFaith said:
*****
*If you can't come up with anything here, maybe you should consider NOT EVER POSTING ANTI-FAITH LIES EVER AGAIN IN ANY MANNER IN ANY THREAD HERE!!

*****

We/I are not posting “anti-faith lies” here, Frank (and the term "lies" is a pretty strong term IMO). Your and your preferred group’s re-definition of faith, which omits “trust” when things don’t go to suit you) is what we resist. We/I may be “anti-Frank’s-defintion-of-faith” but we are definitively not anti-faith.

~Bjorn Free

A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

FrankFaith said:
Can we not read the OP, people? This is no discussion or arguement or debate.

READ THE OP. What part of sickness or disease do you not understand?! Post references to scripture where God has put sickness or disease on His people to teach or chasten. This really shouldn't difficult since your entire basis for disagreement with this whole subject stems from these references.

READ THE OP AND POST YOUR REFERENCES.

I just did huckleberry!

FrankFaith · Jan 13, 2009

Apparently, most of us have lost interest in your thread, Frank. Sorry.

That is sickening and very, very sad. I wonder if your followers can see through this pathetic attempt at making this thread seem unimportant. This thread gives you the opportunity to support your warped, unbiblical view of God putting sickness and disease on His people for the purpose of teaching or chastening--and you can't find a single instance of Him doing this to support your lies.

Amazing.

Again--this is not a debate or discussion--POST YOUR REFERENCES.

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

one mo time

Here is an oldie but a goodie,that just popped into my ever expanding mind..

Jesus was teaching through it..a sick person was allowed to be sick,then we all learned through it,when we read the scriptures..

Jesus could have stopped laz from being sick,so one could argue God afflicted Laz for His glory!

John 11:3-5 (New International Version)

3So the sisters sent word to Jesus, "Lord, the one you love is sick." 4When he heard this, Jesus said, "This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God's glory so that God's Son may be glorified through it." 5Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus.
__________________

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

add the word allow bro,we can tussle..lol

Jesus was allowing the laz incident for a reason!
There were believers there.

FrankFaith · Jan 13, 2009

Lazerous was dead--and GOD didn't put sickness or a disease on Him to teach or chasten him. We already know that God uses all things for good for those who Love Him.

How can we continually vary from the OP?! This is amazing. Is this the best you can do?

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

FrankFaith said:
Lazerous was dead--and GOD didn't put sickness or a disease on Him to teach or chasten him. We already know that God uses all things for good for those who Love Him.

How can we continually vary from the OP?! This is amazing. Is this the best you can do?

he was sick pror,and scripture shows that his sisters wished he came sooner..

Laz was sick!

FrankFaith · Jan 13, 2009

Still waiting. You base your entire belief on this--and you can't come up with a single scripture reference that supports it?! COME ON!!! :O

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

John 11:4
When Jesus heard this, he said, This sickness (astheneia)will not lead to death, but to Gods glory, so that the Son of God may be glorified through it.

Definition from the greek ,of the condtion of laz..

Result of search for "769":
769. astheneia as-then'-i-ah from 772; feebleness (of mind or body); by implication, malady; morally, frailty:--disease, infirmity, sickness, weakness.

FrankFaith · Jan 13, 2009

pinetree said:
he was sick pror,and scripture shows that his sisters wished he came sooner..

Laz was sick!

GOD DID NOT PUT SICKNESS OR DISEASE ON HIM. He used what the devil did for good, as scripture says.

You can read--right?! READ THE OP.

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

FrankFaith said:
Still waiting. You base your entire belief on this--and you can't come up with a single scripture reference that supports it?! COME ON!!! :O

see post 56.

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

Laz was sick,believers were taught through it..case closed!

FrankFaith · Jan 13, 2009

This is amazing--give me a minute and I'll go back and copy the OP again and post it here for you all to read...again...

God is GOOD...not bad.

Just don't call me late for dinner!

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