God is GOOD...not bad.

[SavedByGrace3]

Wow... powerful stuff HC. Thank you for the good report that we indeed can possess the land that God has given us. Yes, God is good and "GOOD" means "GOOD." Not "bad" redefined by some spiritual mumbo jumbo as being good.
Great word. Thanks for that. I am encouraged.

Hey all, grats to the starter of this thread, I am too tired of coming here only to see people teach the suffering doctrine, I too lost joy and hope. I too became confused on the definition of good and the definition of bad, as in all honestly, Christians though not with direct words, teach in essence that suffering etc sickness bad things are of good value as Gods tools to teach correct etc or the otherwise

I want all to know how much you can hurt someone with what you say, Jesus meant what He said, I am not sure on the entire words of it all, but like every little word counts, what you teach, the words you say, can either bring life or death to someone,

I for one am a victim of false doctrine, suffering doctrine, I listened whole heartily to many believers honestly trying to help me, in reality God bless them for their love and patience. But also I know now that there was also something behind what I was told and saw

what i got from people and from online and from my experiences, we alot of Christians teach love and grace, patience forgiveness, and God's goodness, but in reality, there own words contradict what they say and teach, the message and heart of what is said, is of God and suffering, how He uses it to teach or correct us, I suck at wording, but its essence is of bad value, I see this now from all what i have been through.

Now I am declaring, I am too tired of hearing this manipulation, this false stuff. I am tired of coming on here and seeing Good called bad, and bad called good,

that is what I get, that is what we Christians are doing, I see it all the time. Good is good bad is bad. evil is evil. where do we draw the line, when did we start calling sickness a tool of righteous, when did we call suffering a good thing?

in my spirit and heart, i feel such torement over this.. we Christians should do what Jesus did. heal and set free!..

I dont know the words for what i want to say, I am so saddened with alot of my own brothers and sisters teach about this subject, I can see not a heart of love out of it, it comes from a selfish motive, I know I am not wrong in this, I can see it, how much more God can.

hurting lost sheep are gone because of us are own kind, they were looking for healing, they came to us, for they thought surely Gods people must bring goodness and love, yet alot or not healed, learn things that bring no joy nor peace, but only a acceptance of pain and suffering as God's will. the lost sheep are driven further away from God, with a distortion of goodness.

I hope we learn to honestly love, and honestly give up our pride and know what is truly good. but i know that will not happen

 

[Ichabod 2]

God is God; He is in control of all things.. There is no evil He does not totally control.

 

[JimB]

Um, why isn’t this incendiary thread in the debate forum?

~Bjorn Free

A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.​

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The sufferings these verses speak of are obviously persecution for spreading the GOOD news of the Gospel.
Suffering by definition is bad else is would not be called suffering it would be called enjoyment. This is what we talk about when we say words are being redefined. To suffer for God is good. But suffering by itself is not something we enjoy. We would not go out on a Saturday night for suffering. Suffer is... by definition... bad.

Why do you say that suffering is bad?

Romans 8:17-18
Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.

1 Peter 4:12-13

Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you.
But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.

If you do not suffer, then you will not share in Christ's glory.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

God is God; He is in control of all things.. There is no evil He does not totally control.

By "control" do you not mean "commit?"

 

[FrankFaith]

Firstly, what does Moses' wife being a Cushite have to do with anything? If you use this to say that she was not one of God's people, this was the daughter of Jethro, who offered sacrifices to God, and with whom Aaron and all the elders of Israel broke bread, in the presence of God on their travels through the wilderness.

God inflicted Miriam with leprosy, because she (along with Aaron) spoke against Moses, because of his Cushite wife. When they repented, God healed her (after 7 days).

Unless, you hold that leprosy is not a disease.

David lost 70,000 men because he took a census. If you read the 2 Samuel 24, this is what the first verse says:

2 Samuel 24

1 Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "Go and take a census of Israel and Judah."

The bible records a lot of incidences where God does inflict sickness, disease, death and suffering to teach and correct His people. If you think that God does not do this, then your view of God is slanted.

I'm not sure whwere you were going with this but, as I explained, it does not qualify PER THE OP. Please re-read the OP:

When has God:

a. inflicted sickness or disease on His people (believers)
b. for the purpose of teaching or chastening.

 

[FrankFaith]

Um, why isn’t this incendiary thread in the debate forum?

~Bjorn Free

A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.​

Don't be afraid, Jim--jump on in--the water's fine!

This thread was taylor-made just for you--please enlighten us as to the scriptural support for your way of thinking.

 

[Ichabod 2]

God is God; He is in control of all things.. There is no evil He does not totally control.

The Children of Israel could of taken 9 days to cross the wilderness. BUT No God led them for forty years. Now we are walking in this wilderness of life for the same reason:

Deut 8:1-2

All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers.
2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments. (KJV)

 

[FrankFaith]

This is getting really boring, people.

 

[NaLuvena]

I'm not sure whwere you were going with this but, as I explained, it does not qualify PER THE OP. Please re-read the OP:

When has God:

a. inflicted sickness or disease on His people (believers)
b. for the purpose of teaching or chastening.

As quoted in my earlier posts, Miriam was inflicted with leprosy, for the purpose of chastening her (and Aaron) for speaking out in opposition to Moses, God's chosen messenger.

Miriam believed God so that would qualify under your first criteria. She was chastened for opposing Moses, so that would qualify under your second criteria.

As per your OP, you say that to have this sort of view, is "anti-faith". I disagree. To have the view you have, that God does not inflict sickness or disease on His people (beilevers) for the purpose of teaching or chastening, is the sign of a lack of faith in the God we serve, and His goodness.

 

[NaLuvena]

The sufferings these verses speak of are obviously persecution for spreading the GOOD news of the Gospel.
Suffering by definition is bad else is would not be called suffering it would be called enjoyment. This is what we talk about when we say words are being redefined. To suffer for God is good. But suffering by itself is not something we enjoy. We would not go out on a Saturday night for suffering. Suffer is... by definition... bad.

No...suffering is by definition...painful. It is not necessarily bad. Pain does not equate bad.

 

[FrankFaith]

As quoted in my earlier posts, Miriam was inflicted with leprosy, for the purpose of chastening her (and Aaron) for speaking out in opposition to Moses, God's chosen messenger.

Miriam believed God so that would qualify under your first criteria. She was chastened for opposing Moses, so that would qualify under your second criteria.

As per your OP, you say that to have this sort of view, is "anti-faith". I disagree. To have the view you have, that God does not inflict sickness or disease on His people (beilevers) for the purpose of teaching or chastening, is the sign of a lack of faith in the God we serve, and His goodness.

She does not meet the criteria listed in the OP, as explained. Come on--if there is such a large base from which to have such foundational beliefs, please show us another example.

The rest of your post just doesn't make any sense to me. If I didn't know any better I'd think you were trying to stray from the OP. Maybe someone else can help you via PM. Let's stay on subject, please.

 

[NaLuvena]

She does not meet the criteria listed in the OP, as explained. Come on--if there is such a large base from which to have such foundational beliefs, please show us another example.

The rest of your post just doesn't make any sense to me. If I didn't know any better I'd think you were trying to stray from the OP. Maybe someone else can help you via PM. Let's stay on subject, please.

Why doesn't she meet the criteria, and which of the 2 criteria are you referring to? I would be very interested to know this.

In case you hold that only NT saints are believers (which I disagree with, but will not go into here, in case I derail your thread), what about Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5? They died because they lied to the Holy Spirit, and the Church then was in great fear because of what happened. I bet no one lied to the Holy Spirit after that.

 

[HoneyComb Son]

you know, God turns very thing around for good even with bad situations, but does that He means He wants us to suffer? I hope not and I dont think so

however, we do suffer, for so so many reasons, to many to explain, what I am pointing out...is how those who believer in Christ, debate the idea of God not wanting us to suffer, its like you say suffer because it is good. its not said like that, but those who defend it, their believe in suffering doctrine etc etc.. they come off as defending suffering and pain.. as it was good and like God uses it alot for us to teach us etc.

it just hurts my heart, its like you are saying God is good, however pain and suffering are yours for Christ.:S

so confused

 

[FrankFaith]

What people get confused on is this:

Some thank God for their broken arm, for example, because through it they met someone who changed their lives--and unless they had broken their arm, they never would have met them. So they thank God that they broke their arm.

It doesn't sound so bad when you read an example like that, huh.

Here's what really happened, though, ACCORDING TO THE WORD: Satan caused the accident that broke their arm--but because the person with the broken arm is a believer, God used it for good. God uses all things for good for those that Love the Lord.

WE SHOULD NEVER ATTRIBUTE BAD STUFF TO GOD.

God is GOOD, the devil is bad.

Good stuff comes from God. If it's bad--it's from the devil. This is not rocket science.

That said, CAN WE PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC NOW!!!

 

[SavedByGrace3]

you know, God turns very thing around for good even with bad situations, but does that He means He wants us to suffer? I hope not and I dont think so

however, we do suffer, for so so many reasons, to many to explain, what I am pointing out...is how those who believer in Christ, debate the idea of God not wanting us to suffer, its like you say suffer because it is good. its not said like that, but those who defend it, their believe in suffering doctrine etc etc.. they come off as defending suffering and pain.. as it was good and like God uses it alot for us to teach us etc.

it just hurts my heart, its like you are saying God is good, however pain and suffering are yours for Christ.:S

so confused

I think life is like a road with thorn bushes on both sides. If you stay on the road everything is fine. If you veer off either way... there is going to be thorns in your side. Sometimes there are little devils in the bushes that are throwing obstacles in your way... if you stay the course and do not let those obstacles sway you.... you will be OK. I fully believe that if you walk in the light as He is in the light,you will have fellowship with Him. That means sitting at His table and eating with Him.
There are no thorns at His table. There are no devils in His court.
Of course a perfect walk is difficult in this extremely fallen and dark world. We sin and do not even know we are doing it. I sometimes feel in my conscience that something is wrong... like I have wronged Him but I cannot tell how. I just pray forth from tongues and repent from that burden and it goes away. But the path of God for your life has victory and overcoming.
What I object to is the idea that God hits you with a cancer or a dead baby to teach you something. That is a lie from hell. We are taught by the word and the Spirit... not by instruments of the devil. Jesus never hit anyone with a cancer in His teachings. These sorts of lies are faith destroyers. They cause people to doubt God and His goodness. Poor souls will be hit with a disease and some genius will suggest that GOD did it to them. If they believe that nonsense, their faith is totally destroyed. They will never believe God for healing if they think God is the source of their sickness. What is amazing is that the same folks who think sickness comes from God will go directly to the doctor to get themselves out of the will of God. If they really thought that God was teaching them with sickness (sic) then they should drink that cup to the dregs... learn all they can from it. It just shows you that in their heart they know this is nonsense. How many people have died young and endure untold suffering because of this lie. How many people have missed the blessing of God because some religious nut told them God wanted them sick to "teach them something?"
Very disturbing.
Reminds me of the Islamic nuts who march up and down the streets screaming death and destruction in the name of God. I see very little difference.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

No...suffering is by definition...painful. It is not necessarily bad. Pain does not equate bad.

Redefinition of words and concepts.

Pain is bad.
Suffering is bad.
Curses are bad.
Blessings are good.
Hell is pain and bad.
Sin is bad.
Righteousness is good.
Heaven is good.

I suppose if you are a SM then pain and suffering would be "good."

Joke:
[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] to Sadist: "Hurt me!"
Sadist to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]: "nooooo..."

 

[FrankFaith]

Thanks, Dids. Needed words.

Where are the naysayers posts? We're waiting.

*If you can't come up with anything here, maybe you should consider NOT EVER POSTING ANTI-FAITH LIES EVER AGAIN IN ANY MANNER IN ANY THREAD HERE!!

Call me crazy, but how can you do that yet not post in this thread?!

 

[FrankFaith]

We're still waiting...

 

[FrankFaith]

Still waiting