God is Against Spanking Children (aka Child Abuse)

[BNR32FAN]

Is this some sort of joke to you? It seems you aren't taking this seriously if this makes you laugh out loud repeatedly.

No he’s just not taking you seriously and it’s not hard to understand why.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not sure what bible you follow but it's not the KJV

Or any Christian version for that matter.

 

[Lost Witness]

Absolutely ridiculous, I mean I’m literally at a loss for words on how ridiculous this thread is going.

My Pc browser has been throwing gateway issues,
I feel that alone should've been good enough a reason to walk away from this thread.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The Bible supports this position and it so happens that many websites agree. Even if no website agreed, if the Bible said to not be violent and to not provoke children to anger, then you should do it.

And you still haven’t said what to do when your children don’t pay any attention to you. You just keep on saying to teach them and guide them and that keeps on failing over and over and over which is exactly why it escalates to spanking. You still haven’t offered any alternative to spanking when talking isn’t working.

 

[Der Alte]

2 Samuel 7:14
(14) I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
Proverbs 13:24
(24) He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
2 Samuel 7:14
(14) I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
Proverbs 22:15
(15) Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.
Proverbs 23:13-14
(13) Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
(14) Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
Proverbs 29:15
(15) The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.
Psalms 89:31-32
(31) If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
(32) Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

 

[Lost Witness]

(14) Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

Kinda wished i had been beaten more with Rods growing up.

 

[Der Alte]

Kinda wished i had been beaten more with Rods growing up.

I didn't have that problem. My ol' daddy did not spare the belt. Some folks argue that "sheol" translated "hell" in this vs. only means the grave.

Prov 23: (14) Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.[sheol]​

But I don't know of anyone that was saved from the grave by being spanked.

 

[The Righterzpen]

You don’t know what your talking about. You don’t know me and you don’t know my kids.

If you don't respect tyrants; what makes you think your kids do?

 

[The Righterzpen]

I didn't have that problem. My ol' daddy did not spare the belt. Some folks argue that "sheol" translated "hell" in this vs. only means the grave.

Prov 23: (14) Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.[sheol]​

But I don't know of anyone that was saved from the grave by being spanked.

How does beating someone deliver them from hell? I know you well enough to know you understand the doctrine of election.

 

[Der Alte]

How does beating someone deliver them from hell? I know you well enough to know you understand the doctrine of election.

I think you would have to take that up with Solomon who wrote Proverbs. But there are only 2 choices the grave or hell. I am fairly certain that being punished does not keep anyone from the grave. So Solomon must have meant save him from hell by correcting the son so that he is not rebellious.

Proverbs 23:13-14
(13) Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
(14) Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.[sheol]​

 

[Lost Witness]

My ol' daddy did not spare the belt.

I learnt quickly that weeping willow branches was the worst thing to bring someone when you were getting disciplined.

 

[Der Alte]

I learnt quickly that weeping willow branches was the worst thing to bring someone when you were getting disciplined.

Never had the opportunity to make a comparison. Always the 2in wide leather belt.

 

[The Righterzpen]

I think you would have to take that up with Solomon who wrote Proverbs. But there are only 2 choices the grave or hell. I am fairly certain that being punished does not keep anyone from the grave. So Solomon must have meant save him from hell by correcting the son so that he is not rebellious.

Proverbs 23:13-14​

(13) Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.​

(14) Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.[sheol]​

How does being punished keep one out of hell? Scripture declares that all humanity is rebellious. So, explain how that applies to the atonement.

You know "beat" in Hebrew means to come after someone again and again and "the rod of correction" is the tool that's used. And "rod" in that sense is clearly metaphoric!

If your kid doesn't know how to do algebra; you don't physically hit them until they "get it right"? No, you find a method of instruction that works for them.

So why do we seem to believe that physically hitting kids is going to teach them how to behave?

I have a child who was extremely difficult to discipline. He never "learned the lesson" though until I could present it to him in a way that he could absorb it. And I made a lot of mistakes along the way.

The hardest lesson I learned was how to be the parent he needed; not the parent I thought I should be; or the parent other people thought I should be.

My son is almost 21 years old now. He still lives with me. He's got the developmental maturity of maybe an 11 year old; with the intellectual reasoning capacity of maybe a.... 40 year old? He's an "old soul" in a lot of ways. He can't remember squat though. (He's like someone with dementia though he knows he has it.) He gets confused and has difficulty processing information.

But he's 6 foot 1 inch and has like 70 pounds on me. I aint going to "beat" this kid into submission! (Besides he's got osteoporosis and if I injure him; I'm legally on the hook for assault!) Besides the fact that he'd be extremely emotionally distraught if I did something to intentionally injure him. He trusts me and that is something that took a long time to reestablish.

I came from an extremely dysfunctional background and though my parents weren't particularly physically abusive; (they did spank me when I was small) there was a lot of other types of abuse and neglect that went on. When I found out I was pregnant, I promised God and this child; that I was not going to throw him to the wolves of my dysfunctional upbringing. I learned a hell of a lot in those years about the development of the human brain.

My son respects me and obeys me; because I learned to develop a parenting style that was modeled off of my relationship with Christ. And I've known now for almost a decade that he's one of the elect. My son is a believer; despite he struggles with a lot in regards to the limitations his epilepsy causes.

I pray every day for wisdom from God; because I don't know how to help him. I can't do this alone. I know that. And God has brought me the resources (and people) I needed to help me help him get to the next phase of his growth process. And in a lot of ways; I believe my son has taught me more than I've actually taught him.

Now I was in the military for 3 years and did clean up after the 1991 Gulf War; But still, I think my son is one of the bravest people I've ever met. He's faced many life altering events on top of his own mortality; and he keeps going. He prays for help a lot despite the frustration and pain. I have a lot of respect for the kid and how he's prayed through his path in life!

But he would not have gotten as far as he has; if I'd ignored the lessons God was teaching me of how to teach him to be as independent and functional in society as he's capable of being.

After many tough years, multiple school placements and a lot of challenging behavior; there's peace, cooperation and a lot of love in this house. And that didn't happen with me hitting him.

 

[The Righterzpen]

Your quoting verses that have nothing to do with the conversation or the topic and your dodging the question. What do you do when they completely ignore your teaching and guidance? This should be an easy question to answer for you since you seem to be an expert.

What you do is "go back to the drawing board", have the humility to admit that what you're doing isn't working and reserve the right to change your mind about how you problem solve.

Learning how to teach my son required an awful lot of observation. First I had to figure out what was wrong and why the method I was using wasn't working. It took an awful lot of asking people who knew a lot more about child development than I did. I also did (and still do) a lot of looking at medical research about epilepsy and how the brain develops.

I learned that a lot of my son's negative behavior sprung from his own frustration and we worked on methods to help him manage his frustration. And we wrote behavior plans for the school staff to follow.

Eventually we found what worked; and he functions in society as best he can today; considering the limitations that he has.

He listens to me and tries to understand and I listen to him and try to understand. And then we come up with a "game plan" that we can both stick to.

And that's what you do; when they aren't "getting" what you are trying to teach!

 

[Lost Witness]

What you do is "go back to the drawing board", have the humility to admit that what you're doing isn't working and reserve the right to change your mind about how you problem solve.

Learning how to teach my son required an awful lot of observation. First I had to figure out what was wrong and why the method I was using wasn't working. It took an awful lot of asking people who knew a lot more about child development than I did. I also did (and still do) a lot of looking at medical research about epilepsy and how the brain develops.

I learned that a lot of my son's negative behavior sprung from his own frustration and we worked on methods to help him manage his frustration. And we wrote behavior plans for the school staff to follow.

Eventually we found what worked; and he functions in society as best he can today; considering the limitations that he has.

He listens to me and tries to understand and I listen to him and try to understand. And then we come up with a "game plan" that we can both stick to.

And that's what you do; when they aren't "getting" what you are trying to teach!

While you might have the best intentions and feel your method has worked for you,
GOD knows better

 

[The Righterzpen]

While you might have the best intentions and feel your method has worked for you,
GOD knows better

Really? I'm the one with the obedient 21 year old son. How about you? How's your method working for ya? (You already admitted on this thread that it doesn't!)

Prayers for you; you apparently need them!

 

[Aldebaran]

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Per request of the OP:

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