God given rights.

[SigurdReginson]

Growing up, I've often heard the term "God given rights" when topics of folk's rights come up. It could be in reference to anything like their second ammendment rights, or their freedom of speech. What exactly does that mean, though? Does god give us those rights, or are our rights given and taken away by man?

Does it actually mean anything on a deeper level, or is it something that just sounds nice and poetic?

 

[April_Rose]

Well I think that it's something that was given to us by God but man tries to control them.

 

[Anthony2019]

It's a really good question, but a difficult one to answer.
I think a better word would be "responsibility".
We are stewards of what God has given us.
God has given us responsibility to take care of the earth, to look after his creation, to share with others.

 

[SigurdReginson]

Hmmm. Where exactly is it written that god has given us rights, though? What are these rights? Why do nations all over the world have entirely different lists of what these rights are, and why do they change so often?

 

[April_Rose]

Hmmm. Where exactly is it written that god has given us rights, though? What are these rights? Why do nations all over the world have entirely different lists of what these rights are, and why do they change so often?

When God created us and gave us free will I do believe that that was basically the entire package.

 

[SigurdReginson]

It's a really good question, but a difficult one to answer.
I think a better word would be "responsibility".
We are stewards of what God has given us.
God has given us responsibility to take care of the earth, to look after his creation, to share with others.

I appreciate this attitude.

 

[SigurdReginson]

When God created us and gave us free will I do believe that that was basically the entire package.

So, unlimited rights? I suppose that makes sense. Unfortunately, unlimited rights result in unlimited subjugation, since there's really nothing to stop me from inflicting my rights over you and taking yours away, it seems. Plus, that seems to give more rights to people with the strength to wrench your rights away from your hands.

I'm not sure free will and rights are really the same thing, though. Rights seem to imply some kind of protection to me so you are able to enjoy your freedom. That requires some kind of protector.

 

[April_Rose]

Whoa hold on a second now! Free will doesn't mean we have a free pass to sin anymore than receiving a driver's license means that we are allowed to drive drunk and speed. We also just need to use good judgement.

 

[Robban]

Growing up, I've often heard the term "God given rights" when topics of folk's rights come up. It could be in reference to anything like their second ammendment rights, or their freedom of speech. What exactly does that mean, though? Does god give us those rights, or are our rights given and taken away by man?

Does it actually mean anything on a deeper level, or is it something that just sounds nice and poetic?

"All is foreseen, and freedom of choice is granted."
Ethics of the Fathers 3:15

 

[SigurdReginson]

Whoa hold on a second now! Free will doesn't mean we have a free pass to sin anymore than receiving a driver's license means that we are allowed to drive drunk and speed. We also just use good judgement.

Oh? Free will means the freedom to make bad choices, right? Would free will be similar to a driver's license, like a permission to obey the laws or go to jail? If hell would be like jail, then maybe it is like that. Drive drunk and go to jail.

Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[SigurdReginson]

"All is foreseen, and freedom of choice is granted."
Ethics of the Fathers 3:15

I've never heard of the Pirkei Avot before. Thank you.

 

[April_Rose]

Oh? Free will means the freedom to make bad choices, right? Would free will be similar to a driver's license, like a permission to obey the laws or go to jail? If hell would be like jail, then maybe it is like that. Drive drunk and go to jail.

Maybe I'm missing something?

No you got everything,.. the only thing that you're missing is the point.

 

[SigurdReginson]

No you got everything,.. the only thing that you're missing is the point.

Well, maybe you could enlighten me. What is the point?

 

[April_Rose]

Well, maybe you could enlighten me. What is the point?

That just because we have the freedom to make bad choices doesn't mean we should. Kind of sad that I even have to say that as it should just be common sense, but not meaning that directly towards you or anything.

 

[SigurdReginson]

That just because we have the freedom to make bad choices doesn't mean we should. Kind of sad that I even have to say that as it should just be common sense, but not meaning that directly towards you or anything.

Hmmm... I think you and I are talking about two different things.

This isn't really about morals, but more about rights. If we lived in a small village in a foreign part of the world, you might be arrested for wearing a dress that exposed your ankles. Your rights would be that you can wear a dress up to that height. Here in the united states, if I were arrested I would have the right to a legal representation in court. I would be appointed a state appointed lawyer if I couldn't afford to hire a lawyer myself. Back before the civil war, some men thought it was their god given right and the natural order of things to own other people as property.

These are somehow supposed to be god given. How exactly?...

The freedom to do right and wrong is a different subject, but one that I think is interesting too. Maybe a different thread!

 

[April_Rose]

Actually I don't see any difference as the ability to know right from wrong goes hand in hand with our natural rights.

 

[SigurdReginson]

Actually I don't see any difference as the ability to know right from wrong goes hand in hand with our natural rights.

Interesting. But morals do change from culture to culture. You'd say slavery is wrong, right? There was a time when that was seen as a perfectly normal and righteous thing that didn't bother folks' conscience. It was seen as just a normal part of life, and a right to be defended (hense a lot of Americans dying trying to protect that right).

Was that god given? If so, how?

 

[April_Rose]

Interesting. But morals do change from culture to culture. You'd say slavery is wrong, right? There was a time when that was seen as a perfectly normal and righteous thing that didn't bother folks' concience. It was seen as just a normal part of life, and a right to be defended (hense a lot of Americans dying trying to protect that right).

Was that god given? If so, how?

Psalm 100:5. Slavery is bad and sinful no matter what people believed at one time.For God is good and anything bad cannot be from God. It never changed just like God is unchanging. Our views may change on what is right and what is wrong but God's views never change.

 

[April_Rose]

That's weird, the verse isn't showing up and according to what I just looked up it exists.

 

[SigurdReginson]

Psalm 100:5. Slavery is bad and sinful no matter what people believed at one time.For God is good and anything bad cannot be from God. It never changed just like God is unchanging. Our views may change on what is right and what is wrong but God's views never change.

But what is good is subjective, and changes through time. Even the bible has a given set of rules for owning slaves, which are the same verses those folks used to own slaves during the civil war era. They felt they were in compliance according to the law of moses in the old testament. Leviticus 25:44-46 are just a few verses, there are many more for the rules of owning slaves.

If it was bad then, why was it part of god's law if god is inherently good? If it is bad now, then what is good and bad changes over time, no?

Eh... I do feel this is getting off topic though. I'm not sure I agree with you that morals are intrinsically tied to rights.