"God doesn't owe you anything"... What do you think?

[paul becke]

I have a suspicion that the promise-debt relationship is explicitly referred to in scripture, but I couldn't identify the passage - if I am correct.

 

[Amy]

Thank you, Endure.

 

[Amy]

I have a suspicion that the promise-debt relationship is explicitly referred to in scripture, but I couldn't identify the passage - if I am correct.

Isn't that a part of the covenant? The covenant between us and God? If we are in a covenant, then I stand by God - I owe it to Him - and He stands by me - He owes it to me as well. NOT because I am something, just like Endure has said, but because if God has promised, He won't break his word.

 

[tigersnare]

Of course God owes me!!!!








Justified eternal death!!!........one word saved me, Grace, by means of one man's life and death...Jesus Christ.

 

[Amy]

All right. Fine. All we deserve is death and punishment, we shouldn't even open our mouth to ask for anything, and if we suffer - who cares, that's what we deserve anyway. God doesn't owe us anything good.

I'm glad I've got that straight.

 

[looksgood]

All right. Fine. All we deserve is death and punishment, we shouldn't even open our mouth to ask for anything, and if we suffer - who cares, that's what we deserve anyway. God doesn't owe us anything good.

I'm glad I've got that straight.

LOL, is the cat hissing at everyone?

 

[tigersnare]

All right. Fine. All we deserve is death and punishment, we shouldn't even open our mouth to ask for anything, and if we suffer - who cares, that's what we deserve anyway. God doesn't owe us anything good.

I'm glad I've got that straight.

Whoaaaa....sorry should have just stuck to the PM. My post obvious rubbed you the wrong way, let's clear it up in the Pm's. Have a beautiful Christmas.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

Have you ever heard this beautiful phrase? In a sermon, or from other Christians? "God doesn't owe you anything." What do you think of it?

As to me, my opinion is this: if you don't owe me anything, then don't promise me anything. Don't say, "ask and you shall receive," and that kind of stuff. Because when you do, you DO owe me whatever is promised.

If I tell you, "I will give you a car," and then when you show up at my door and ask for it, I say, "I don't owe you anything" - something is wrong with this picture. Don't you think?...

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]!!! I totally agree!! I've heard people say that too, and I know it didn't feel right to me, I thought it was just me. If a person spends a lot of their time seeking God and rearanging their life around to please Him and do His will, then I do feel like God does owe the person something especially when He has given them many promises and led them to make different choices and things in their life, then yes, He does owe them what He promised them, and at least a decent way to live. They will not have the perfect utopian life here on earth, but He does owe them something, that's how I feel.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

well i think you have to realise the meaning behind how its said.

i think he does keep his promises and makes promises for a reason, like amy said.
and he created and was obligated to take care of us to an extent too, like suzannah said.

but i think there is meaning it in some ways of thinking and application, but many people get angry at God when he doesnt please them, people say God should do this and that when he doesnt have to do anything more than what hes already done, and things like that.
also, people kinda think they can come to God and say "YOU OWE ME!" and think they can demand of God in a "you have to serve me" kind of way.
God answers prayers through our faith and love and righteousness, not becuase we can say to him "YOU BETTER KEEP YOUR WORD OR IM GOING TO ACCUSE YOU OF LYING! YOU BETTER!"
but when people think they a have an extra card up their sleeve and will be able to throw it out and kinda win the game agaisnt God...hehe...no .

God keeps his word, but he is King and no one can say unto his creator 'why have you made me this way?" and the bible says we must come to the Lord and fall down upon our faces before our creator...thats not a "you owe me" attitude. God isnt told what to do by anyone.
the moment you step into pride and think your something in yourself and God owes you because of who you are, you sin and God doesnt have to give you anything.

if we say "God owes me" out of the feeling that you dont like being treated a certain way and would hate for God to put you through a certain experience and try to negotiate out of it becuase we are better than that...thats pride, and no he doesnt owe us in that sense.
he doesnt answer prayers becuase he owes us, he answers prayers becuase hes a father and loves us.


in 1 peter the bible says husbands can have their prayers hindered, if they dont love their wives. God wont just answer anyones prayers, you have to love him and serve him and walk according to his will and please him.
the bible says also in proverbs or psalms one, that to the perverse, he will show himself perverse (that not a quote).
if you come to God with a perverted way of thinking and demanding, he will not heed you, and hell let you think hes a very perverse God.
the bible says God resists the proud...
you can come to God in prayer, and ask of him, but he will press you aside and resist you, if you have pride in you.
the bible says he resists evil doers,the bible says hes does not hear sinners.
those are several occasions where God wont answer your prayers, no matter how he created you and is supposed to watch out for you, or how often he said hed answer your prayers.


i dont think we can come with the mindset that we will receive becuase he owes us, because people think the reason he owes us is because of US... becuase we are full of ourselves, and thats pride, and he resists pride, thats the first of seven things he absolutely hates.

ya know what im saying?

Okay I hear what you are saying and I can agree with that. But in cases where God has promised someone something, and the person obeys God in everything and keeps His word, then God does at least owe them what He has promised them. Now if the person disobeys God or breaks covenent with God then God doesn't owe, but as long as a person is doing what God has told them and is living right as a Christian, then yes, God does owe them what He has promised them. He owes it not because of the person, but because He said He would do it and He spoke it.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

I think that God *chooses* to owe us. He gave us certain promises, and therefore He will fulfill them. However, He certainly doesn't owe unsaved people anything, and He doesn't owe us whatever we want. Like endure said, mostly when people think God owes them something they're dead wrong. He's not the magical gift-giving genie who exists only to make us happy.

True, a sinner, God doesn't owe anything, or someone who isn't following God's word like He says, He doesn't owe anything. He also doesn't owe someone for something or a mistake they made prior to being saved. But a person living right and pleasing God and walking in the steps God ordered for him, then God does owe him to keep His word. God owes him the word He spoke or promised him. Once God spoke to Abraham and told him He would make him the father of many nations, God owed that to Abraham as long as Abraham kept to God's word and kept serving God as he should. Why promise someone to make them the father of many nations, then when the person keeps God's word and commandments and live as God wants him to, why would God then say I don't owe you anything. LOL! He owes not because of who Abraham is but because He made a promise. When you promise someone something, you then owe them what you promised.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

Thank you all for your input, it has been very encouraging for me to read your thoughts on this subject. I think I might need to clarify what I meant though, and I will do that using the following example. Suppose there is a Christian family struggling financially - and because of that, spiritually. They pray, and receive no answer. They give their tithe and offerings, and they are still poor as poor can be, and their needs go unmet. I wouldn't call them spoiled brats, you know, for struggling over this and saying, "Hey, hasn't God promised to provide for us? Didn't He say, 'ask and you shall receive'?... Then what on earth is going on?!"

Now, do you think it would be fair to tell this family that God doesn't owe them anything and they shouldn't be upset with Him?

I agree with you and what you are saying. In God's word He promises to fulfill all of our needs, and another verse says that he has not seems the righteous forsaken nor his seed begging bread. That tells us that God at least owes those serving Him food and a place to live. The only time I can think of where a person might go through a season of not having their needs met is like when they are in a test. That's a different situation like with Job, because in the end God did owe Job because of Job's faithfulness. Now if Job had gotten angry and walked away from God, then God wouldn't owe him anything, but because Job didn't fall, God at least owed him a reward for his faithfulness. Faith is what pleases God. God promises in His word that He will reward those who diligently meaning without giving up seek Him. Therefore He owes what He said.

There are times when a person is tested and may have things go wrong for a season, but a person serving God right should not have a perpetual lifetime of financial struggles. God at least owes them as their father, a home and food to eat.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

well he doesn't owe them financial support. remember job? he was faithful to God and his health, wealth and family were taken away. but because he remained faithful he got it all back, tenfold. The lord gives and the Lord takes away.

God doesn't need anything, nor does He need to do anything. But he LONGS for our love and desire. THAT is why he gives us stuff and promises. But do you think God is gonna give you stuff just because you ask? No... check your heart and where you motivations are.

But what Job was going through was a test. A test is a different situation. And in the end God did owe Job for his faithfulness. If Job had gotten angry and stopped serving God, then God wouldn't owe him anything, but as long as Job was fiathful, then God owed him because God's word says that Heis a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him. So God owed Job to keep His word.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

No, of course I don't think that. But I think that when someone is in trouble, like the family I described in my previous post, they NEED to cling to God's promises. And how can you do that if "He doesn't owe you anything"? It almost sounds like, yeah, you can pray all you want, but God doesn't have to listen to you and help you out; he might keep his promise, and he might not. See what I mean?

Exactly!!!! How can a person hold on to God's word throughout all kinds of adversity if there is no certainty that when they withstand it all that God will even keep His word of what He promised them? When God says it, He is obligated to keep His own word that He spoke. Because if it's like that then it's like how do I know that when I die God won't say "Oh I might let you into Heaven and I might not. I don't owe you anything." If He isn't obligated to keep His word in small things, how can we know what word He'll keep and what promise or word He won't keep? He owes us everything He promises and has promised in His word as long as we are in fellowship with Him.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

he wont keep it if you arent faithful perhaps? that family should expect him to keep his promises, not because God owes them anything, but because God said he'd keep them. Its more like we owe him faith than he owes us anything...

I think it is the word "owe" that is tripping some people up because some people only have a negative sense of the word or can only think of the word owe in a negative sense. Owe can be a positive word too. When you promise your child a pair of new rollerblades if she brings her D up to an A, don't you owe her those rollerblades if she makes an A? That's not a negative thing, that's a positive Owe. When two people get married and pledge their commitment to each other, don't they owe each other thier love and commitment? That's a positive owe. The husband can't just say "I don't owe you anything." Why did you get married then? You are in a relationship, a covenant, he does owe you something. That's a positive owe. When you make a choice to bring a child into this world, then you owe that child a loving home and food to eat. That's a positive owe. People keep thinking that owe means something negative. It's not negative. God wants to owe us things because of our faithfulness, just like you want to owe your child those rollerblades. Why else would you promise them and then when she gets the A say I don't owe you anything, I'm your mother, I made you I brought you into this world and I can take you out! LOL! How would that sound? You do owe her those rollerblades if she keeps to the terms of your promise and gets that A.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

Blanton I don't think Job proves that God takes anything from us. Althought I would like him to take some things away sometimes. And sometimes it's for our own Good.
Remember God loves us and will not do something to hurt us, but our advesary in the world walks around looking for something to steal and someone to kill.

Exactly, and when people are weak or not totally convinced that God will give them this or that, the advesry can use that to steal all of the gifts and promises that God has for us. We have to be confident that God does owe what He has promised so that the advesary can't use that unsurity to steal our blessing(keep us from recieving our blessing). When you stand up to the adversary, you have to know with confidence that God will do (owes) what He has promised as long as we are in covenant with Him. Even the bible says that you can't be luke warm and indecisive, you have to pick a side and stand your ground. How can you do that if God doesn't owe you anything? If you don't know if God will really do it or not? LOL! You have to think of it in terms of God owes us what He has promised as long as we are in the right fellowship with Him.

 

[Amy]

LOL, is the cat hissing at everyone?

LOL! No, this is no mean cat, she's not hissing at anyone. Just a little broken-spirited, that's all.

 

[Geoff_Conn]

Does god owe us anything? I think he gave us what we needed his Son Jesus, and his written word!

 

[invisiblebabe]

As to me, my opinion is this: if you don't owe me anything, then don't promise me anything. Don't say, "ask and you shall receive," and that kind of stuff. Because when you do, you DO owe me whatever is promised.

If I tell you, "I will give you a car," and then when you show up at my door and ask for it, I say, "I don't owe you anything" - something is wrong with this picture. Don't you think?...

I wholeheartedly agree, Amy.

 

[AlecEiffel]

God doesnt owe us anything? He certainly owes us SOMETHING. and by something, I dont mean fancy cars and big houses, I mean, He owes us the TRUTH. have you ever just taken a minute to sit back and think of how utterly retarded the concept of life is? and what was going through God's mind when He created us? He doesnt owe us everything, but He certainly owes us the truth. yeah, but whatever, to me, the truth is everything. I dont know what they exactly mean by that, but i think God certainly owes everyone the truth.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

He has already given us the truth. It's up to us to recieve it. Personally, I don't think God owes us anything. If anything, we owe God something. We disobey Him, reject Him, sin against Him and all kinds of other things. Yet, He still loves us and has mercy on us. He even died for us.