God Creating Complex Objects With Apparent Age

[Heissonear]

Yes, lots of them. And, in a sense, every fossil is transitional, because all populations evolve.

A well known cover up reply.

 

[Heissonear]

Would this woman have had a scar from an accident she had back when she was 4-years old?
Thus a scar from an accident that never happened, since she was created with the body of a 20-year old, or whatever, and thus never had the body of a 4-year old?

Because that's how the earth looks: full of scars of things that supposedly never happened under your "embedded age YEC model".

This is why it is important to understand the difference between "apparant age" and "apparant history".

For example, there are hundreds of thousands of winter/summer cycles exhibited in the layers of snow-ice in ice cores taken from the permafrost at the poles.

In a world of just a few thousand year olds, we shouldn't see more layers then just those few thousands.... If "his plan" required a thick layer of permafrost ice - then why don't we just see one thick layer of permafrost ice? Why does it look exactly like that ice is the result of hundreds of thousands of years of accumulation of snowy winters followed by non-snowy summers?

See?

And that's just one example....

I could also point out the several salt deposit layers underneath the mediteranian, which is evidence of that sea drying up multiple times throughout geological history (a process that takes millions of years to unfold). Or I could point to the famous white cliffs in England which are the result of millions of years of deposits of sea life.

If you wish to hold on to your "embedded YEC model", then one can only conclude that your god went out of his way to deceive us.



Also, I'ld like to point out that your "embedded model" has the exact same merrit as "Last Thursdayism". Which is the idea that the universe and everything it contains, including our memories, was created last thursday.

Your facts with conclusions have a foundation of only ones intellect.

You seem to think being born again - and taught by the Holy Spirit - does not exist, since you have not walked in this life by such.

Are you not missing the below Living Water that those baptized by the Holy Spirit attain, with a new way to learn by? The Holy Spirit teaches. This is not in your world at this time.

 

[Heissonear]

No offence DH, but I think posts like this are part of the reason Creationists feel emboldened enough to actually think that these bizarre ideas have any merit and that there is a legitimate debate to be had.

The notion that a woman magically appeared out of thin air at the behest of a mysterious, invisible deity should not really be treated as a proposition worthy of consideration.

I call your post chit-chat. A mixture of error in though in ascertaining true topic understanding.

 

[Herman Hedning]

I realise extremely well that people like Heiss are so far gone that there's really nothing I could do or say to bring him back to this dimension we all call "reality".

Aha! Maybe I am not alone misreading Heissonear's user name as "Heiss on ear" - which doesn't make much sense, but I still have to force myself to see "He is so near".

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Which should a person do foremost towards understanding Earth's origin and history: turn to God or to Science?

Science.

Which one of the above holds the Key that unlocks Reality?

Science.

Does mankind need to know God and His Ways first or can they by-pass such and through scientific enquiry understand the Reality of Earth's past?

No, Science.

If they by-pass God to know about Earth's history do they make geologic science an idol?

No.

Does a person first need to learn of God's Ways before concluding what they learned from geologic science?

No.

Does the Bible clearly present Scriptures of at least one of God's Ways of Creating? Scriptures plain to understand of at least one of His Creative Ways?

No. I think the descriptions are vague and not all that clear. See all the different denominations of just Christianity, let alone all the different religions and all the different ideas people of the same faith have about what the bible says.

Does the Bible present that God has used Apparent-Embedded Age when Creating complex objects?

IDK. Maybe? Some interpret it that way.

 

[Speedwell]

Have you been baptisted by the Holy Spirit, where as a Christain Rivers of Living Water directs your mind and teaches you?

Can you frame that question in theological terms?

 

[Heissonear]

An understanding of both geology and scripture is needed. The thing is, it takes years and years to study and to understand the earth through geology. But genesis 1 and 2 are only so many pages long. A lot of young earthers are taught that the earth is 6000 years old from the day they are born, but dont put forth the time necessary to understand geology. And so, unjustified bias is formed toward a young earth. However, geologists like myself, typically would say that its pretty clear the earth is old. But its a task trying to show that to others who havent studied the science, and it is even harder to discuss the topic with people who have opposing preconceived notions that theyve had since birth.

It is simple to understand before Modern Geology came the Bible was already written by tge Holy Spirit using men.

A person would first turn to the Lord Jesus and His Anointing that teaches before Modern Geology ever existed.

It is te Holy Spirit that is prominent in learning AND concluding what one knows by the scientific method. Many have this backwards or askewed.

Within the Mind of the Holy Spirit resides Truth that we need. It is not an option. No ifs.

By advancing our knowledge-base by intellect only they will error. God is to lead in what one summerizes. Much error presently exists due to lack of the Holy Spirits leading in how one concludes what he knows.

Apparent Embedded Age is a prime example that is very clear but void in intellect only Modern Geology.

 

[Heissonear]

Can you frame that question in theological terms?

No need to. It is as dynamic as the energy coming from the sun. Get in on it.

 

[Speedwell]

No need to. It is as dynamic as the energy coming from the sun. Get in on it.

So what does it have to do with your "Last Thursdayism?"

 

[Heissonear]

Would this woman have had a scar from an accident she had back when she was 4-years old?
Thus a scar from an accident that never happened, since she was created with the body of a 20-year old, or whatever, and thus never had the body of a 4-year old?

Because that's how the earth looks: full of scars of things that supposedly never happened under your "embedded age YEC model".

This is why it is important to understand the difference between "apparant age" and "apparant history".

For example, there are hundreds of thousands of winter/summer cycles exhibited in the layers of snow-ice in ice cores taken from the permafrost at the poles.

In a world of just a few thousand year olds, we shouldn't see more layers then just those few thousands.... If "his plan" required a thick layer of permafrost ice - then why don't we just see one thick layer of permafrost ice? Why does it look exactly like that ice is the result of hundreds of thousands of years of accumulation of snowy winters followed by non-snowy summers?

See?

And that's just one example....

I could also point out the several salt deposit layers underneath the mediteranian, which is evidence of that sea drying up multiple times throughout geological history (a process that takes millions of years to unfold). Or I could point to the famous white cliffs in England which are the result of millions of years of deposits of sea life.

If you wish to hold on to your "embedded YEC model", then one can only conclude that your god went out of his way to deceive us.



Also, I'ld like to point out that your "embedded model" has the exact same merrit as "Last Thursdayism". Which is the idea that the universe and everything it contains, including our memories, was created last thursday.

It may be your post is through intellect and opinion only, and void of His teaching you. May this be the case in what you present and conclude?

 

[Heissonear]

So what does it have to do with your "Last Thursdayism?"

Look in a big city phone book. Look at the "churches" section.

People are prone to follow doctrine. When does a person wake up to this way of living?

When does the Spirit becomes the one who leads?

And when does one go through the correcting He bring to what we know which is error?

Christianity and our walk with Him is a dynamic relationship. Words is a book are only a reflection of reality at best.

 

[Heissonear]

Oh, I'm not trying to discourage you, and I completely agree with the above points. It just seems a bit weird sometimes

Are you born again by the Holy Spirit?

If not, what might you be missing? His Anointing that convicts of what is Truth?

 

[Speedwell]

Look in a big city phone book. Look at the "churches" section.

People are prone to follow doctrine. When does a person wake up to this way of living?

When does the Spirit becomes the one who leads?

And when does one go through the correcting He bring to what we know which is error?

Christianity and out walk with Him is a dynamic relationship. Words is a book are only a reflection of reality at best.

So you believe in Last Thursdayism because of the leadership of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Jjmcubbin]

But on your path to science as first and foremost knowledge you lack what knowledge and understanding Life from the Holy Spirit will instruct and make you aware of.

Do you think the below verse presents an option to attaining Reality of things around us?


View attachment 219794

Spirituality is great if the placebo works for you, it doesn't for me.
And no, the verse seems to command me to obey something without any rational and logical thought, and we as a society have come this far only because of rational and logical thinking (religion also played a major role, I agree, and it maybe important even now, we just need to update it with the times)

 

[Halbhh]

Which should a person do foremost towards understanding Earth's origin and history: turn to God or to Science?

Which one of the above holds the Key that unlocks Reality?

Does mankind need to know God and His Ways first or can they by-pass such and through scientific enquiry understand the Reality of Earth's past?

If they by-pass God to know about Earth's history do they make geologic science an idol?

Does a person first need to learn of God's Ways before concluding what they learned from geologic science?

Does the Bible clearly present Scriptures of at least one of God's Ways of Creating? Scriptures plain to understand of at least one of His Creative Ways?

Does the Bible present that God has used Apparent-Embedded Age when Creating complex objects?

Good questions, and hello brother!

Which should a person do foremost towards understanding Earth's origin and history: turn to God or to Science?
-- Origin: God created *all things*. All. (notice this means God created physics also!)
-- History: some is in the Bible, but only valuable (for our souls!) parts that we truly need for our souls, not just all trivial possible facts, of course. Nothing about mere chemistry, mere geology, mere nuclear physics. Of course not!


Which one of the above holds the Key that unlocks Reality?
-- Our Lord God, only!

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.
The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

Praise the Lord God, Maker of Heaven and Earth!

Hallelujah!
------
Does mankind need to know God and His Ways first or can they by-pass such and through scientific enquiry understand the Reality of Earth's past?
-- "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge"
-- For trivial questions like mere geology and mere time duration in mere years and mere eons -- which are like only a day to the Lord! -- we can try to learn more about these trivialities in science, of course, which is merely trying to learn more of part of His design! Praise God!


If they by-pass God to know about Earth's history do they make geologic science an idol?
-- Good grief! No! C'mon! An idol is when we make anything (anything!) more important than God.
If you don't make your calculator more important than God, but merely use it to calculate, then it is not an idol.
The purpose of scripture is to help save our souls for eternity!! Not some mere facts about how much voltage is in lightning, how long cesium half life is, carbon-14, etc. Those small things are useful, but wont save a single person.

Knowing the real age of the Earth will...not....save...a...single....person. Not ever.

Only faith in Christ Jesus alone is any cause for anyone to have true hope.

And nothing else!

"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved."

------
No one should try to set science against God, or Scripture, or scripture against science.

Instead, they should truly listen with all of their heart, to the words that can save.=, forever.

That the Earth is likely about 4.55 billion years old is comparatively trivial.

Don't even worry about it!

Put your faith not in a version of how to guess at some not-saving details about how much time passed during verse 1 or between days (whether we guess it is much, or even to guess that is zero). Not any version. Not version A of creationism, nor version B of creationism. Neither will save.

They will not save even one single soul.

Not one.

Only Christ alone can save, and those who believe in Him will hurry to listen and hear what He said they must in Matthew 7:21-27.

 

[HitchSlap]

Which should a person do foremost towards understanding Earth's origin and history: turn to God or to Science?

Which one of the above holds the Key that unlocks Reality?

Does mankind need to know God and His Ways first or can they by-pass such and through scientific enquiry understand the Reality of Earth's past?

If they by-pass God to know about Earth's history do they make geologic science an idol?

Does a person first need to learn of God's Ways before concluding what they learned from geologic science?

Does the Bible clearly present Scriptures of at least one of God's Ways of Creating? Scriptures plain to understand of at least one of His Creative Ways?

Does the Bible present that God has used Apparent-Embedded Age when Creating complex objects?

Hypothetically speaking, if your god exists, then you should be thanking scientists for showing you how it did it.

 

[HitchSlap]

Has mankind found any transitional fossils of the billions recovered?

Of course.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Aha! Maybe I am not alone misreading Heissonear's user name as "Heiss on ear" - which doesn't make much sense, but I still have to force myself to see "He is so near".

Oh my gosh, I've been reading it wrong for years, I thought it was a surname or something, thus reading it as Highs-zone-air

 

[Ophiolite]

Its a matter of perspective. Nothing looks billions of years old to me. Everything appears exactly as it should according to the Bible.

In that case you need a good optician.

 

[Ophiolite]

What puzzles many is why God would create a world (or indeed, an entire universe), not just with apparent age, but with apparent history. Billions of years of historical evidence of events that never happened, of fossilized creatures that never lived, of multiple lines of evidence of billions of years of evolution by natural selection that never happened, and all reflected in the present state of the universe right down to our cells, our DNA, and the very atoms we're made of.

Why fake it all?

She might just enjoy a good practical joke.