God created us without a way to stop sinning?

huk945 said:

If we could stop sinning by ourselves then we wouldn't need Jesus Christ now would we???????????????????

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You gad it !

You got it !

PS
I posted my reply before but it disappeared.

mikemack said:

In the last year I've watched as my faith has taken a large decline. It initially began over the idea of not being able to stop living a lust filled life (but that isn't what this question is about), and after talking to my girlfriend I realized there seems to be this huge hole in my knowledge about living as a sinner.

You see my girlfriend is a social worker, and constantly has to deal with patients who do not have the ability to properly reason. The idea that they need God is almost impossible for some of them to grasp. And the idea that they could stop the sinful ways they live? It's basically impossible. Like asking a potato to run.

Or I have a friend who was sexually abused growing up. He is a smart person, but his whole view on sexuality has completely been distorted. And we basically ask him to just "stop sinning"?

I don't understand it. I can understand a life living in pain, or without something. At least that has taught me something in my journey. But living a life of sin, where hope to remove it is essentially non existent? I don't understand how God can put us in that place. We didn't ask for these things to be part of our lives, they're just there. And we're told we need to remove them from our lives.

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If you were taught that what we need to do in this life is stop sinning, then I understand why your faith has declined. We didn't ask for these things in our life, but they're part of our nature since we became fallen creatures. God has every right and would be entirely just to leave us as we are. Yet, because he is merciful as well as just, he has provided us with a Saviour who saves us from our sins so that we can be with God in eternity. Yet that doesn't start right now. Right now, the purpose in our lives is to glorify God. That can mean to stop some sinful inclinations we have, but we need God's grace in order to do that. We are unable to do that on our own because we are sinful in nature. It takes a miracle for us to not do something sinful. Can a leopard change it's spots? To not use such a cliché, does a cat just decide to become a vegetarian? It's a carnivore, it's going to want to eat meat, most of the time (though my cat nibbles on grass from time to time). Still, you get my point. We're not going to do what is not in our nature to do.

Now this all doesn't mean it's okay to sin. That is clearly not taught in the Bible. This is where it gets tricky and you've got to trust God's word and lean not on our own understanding because logically speaking, if we can't stop sinning anyway, so what's the point? Why not just do what we're going to do. God instructs us however to use the means of grace such as praying to him and reading his word and in this way we grow in sanctification which is the work of the Holy Spirit. It is not our works however, but those good works which the Lord has prepared for us which we do so as to glorify him.

Peace Keeper said:

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing, 15 that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast to the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I may be proud that I did not run in vain or labor in vain. 17 Even if I am to be poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrificial offering of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with you all. 18 Likewise you also should be glad and rejoice with me. Philippians 2:12-18 ESV

We must seek out our own salvation with fear and trembling, meaning we cannot change others so others cannot change us, it is our decision to walk with God and let Him work within us. The fear I believe is putting trust in God, knowing what He says is true and we must follow Him. Sometimes I think people focus on excuses and don't take it seriously so they are not serious when they repent (in the past I have probably been this way, but I am working toward trusting Him more and leaving it in God's hands and He is helping me). We must learn to follow God also in love though, it is a beautiful thing He did for us, making it possible where are sins and debts are completely washed clean when we turn our life over to Him and believe, He chooses to remember our sins no more and allow us to become new creations in Him, but we must learn to turn and sin no more.

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You should look at part of that verse 'fear and trembling ' in the Greek. It is to evaluate ones self. That is the translation.


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ToBeLoved said:

You should look at part of that verse 'fear and trembling ' in the Greek. It is to evaluate ones self. That is the translation.


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That is how I look at it and that is what I mean that we can't change others and others can't change us, I was meaning that we must evaluate ourselves and choose to follow God and turn away from sin with God helping us to overcome. I am sorry if my statement was confusing in anyway. We must evaluate ourselves knowing what God says is true and those who enter His Kingdom are those you follow and obey Him. Thank you for making that clear for others.

mikemack said:

In the last year I've watched as my faith has taken a large decline. It initially began over the idea of not being able to stop living a lust filled life (but that isn't what this question is about), and after talking to my girlfriend I realized there seems to be this huge hole in my knowledge about living as a sinner.

You see my girlfriend is a social worker, and constantly has to deal with patients who do not have the ability to properly reason. The idea that they need God is almost impossible for some of them to grasp. And the idea that they could stop the sinful ways they live? It's basically impossible. Like asking a potato to run.

Or I have a friend who was sexually abused growing up. He is a smart person, but his whole view on sexuality has completely been distorted. And we basically ask him to just "stop sinning"?

I don't understand it. I can understand a life living in pain, or without something. At least that has taught me something in my journey. But living a life of sin, where hope to remove it is essentially non existent? I don't understand how God can put us in that place. We didn't ask for these things to be part of our lives, they're just there. And we're told we need to remove them from our lives.

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in most cases such persons are rather victims than causers, and there is a need of more true saviors in Christ to cast the devilish spirits out of the affected/possessed people and to heal the sick ones, there is a need of more righteous prayers/worshipers in Christ to pray to the true God, the Heavenly Father, for overall salvation in Him and His Son

as for the cause, not the true God but the system of human(666) religion brings all defilements and offenses to the world, which is why so many persons, including simple people, have been unfavorably affected in so many ways/aspects; the irreligious and non-occult people do not even believe there is a God, because they don't even know there is one, and even if they are acquainted with practicing religious faith, many of them may not start practicing religious faith in the true God right enough in case they are not aware enough of the right path of practicing religious faith or in case it turns out they are unworthy to practice religious faith to a certain extent, that is why Jesus Christ invited only dozens of persons to become and be His disciples, not millions, but this doesn't mean there must be no overall salvation in Him - what the true God prepares, prepares it for all

Blessings

mikemack said:

In the last year I've watched as my faith has taken a large decline. It initially began over the idea of not being able to stop living a lust filled life (but that isn't what this question is about), and after talking to my girlfriend I realized there seems to be this huge hole in my knowledge about living as a sinner.

You see my girlfriend is a social worker, and constantly has to deal with patients who do not have the ability to properly reason. The idea that they need God is almost impossible for some of them to grasp. And the idea that they could stop the sinful ways they live? It's basically impossible. Like asking a potato to run.

Or I have a friend who was sexually abused growing up. He is a smart person, but his whole view on sexuality has completely been distorted. And we basically ask him to just "stop sinning"?

I don't understand it. I can understand a life living in pain, or without something. At least that has taught me something in my journey. But living a life of sin, where hope to remove it is essentially non existent? I don't understand how God can put us in that place. We didn't ask for these things to be part of our lives, they're just there. And we're told we need to remove them from our lives.

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Romans 6:15-23
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Those who receive forgiveness of their sins through faith in Jesus aren't slaves to sin anymore. We are given the power by the Holy Spirit to flee temptation and to obey Christ. We need to pursue holiness and resist the devil by the power of the Holy Spirit (James 4:7-10).

But there a lot of people who will claim to be Christ's but they aren't because they do not obey Him (Matthew 7).

If you're trying to beat sin in the strength of your flesh, it's not going to happen. You need the power of the Holy Spirit. You need to repent in your heart and trust that He is able to give you victory over your sin. Maybe you could get help from other men about the specific area you struggle with.

2 Timothy 3 has a long list of godless attributes by people "holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power." Without the power of the Holy Spirit, there is no godliness. Real faith (with real repentance) bears spiritual fruit. This is a truth discussed also in 1 John.

About the first five years of my Christian life I tried to "be good" out of my own flesh until I realized it was hopeless because I could sort of control behavior (and not even this very well) but I couldn't change my heart. So then I begged God to change my heart, and He has/is. Sanctification is a lifelong process.

God bless.

I'm one of those people who dislikes other christians who say "If you were a real christian, God would give you the strength to stop!". Because that would imply, if you were a real christian, your life would be without sin. You would never mess up. Which is impossible. Even the bible says we will mess up sometimes and never fully mature to PERFECT like Jesus. After all if Jesus was tempted while on earth, theres no way we will be perfect like him.

Now this doesn't mean we shouldn't try of course. Its our lives basically, try and try and a try. For some they can get rid of alot of sins. Such as a porn addicted, alcoholic, drug addicted christian may be able to stop all three things until they day they die. But for the other person who has the same, maybe they can stop, but lets say their porn addiction pops up every once and awhile, it may be hard to stop. And even if someone claims to stop something, it doesn't mean their are other sins they aren't doing. Such as I notice those who claim to be perfect are in fact in sin because they are prideful, judgmental and "holier then thou". See, sin is impossible to avoid your whole life.

As for the question itself, we do have ways to improve. God. I mean yes we can and should take obvious steps in life to help stop a sin. Such as if you swear ALOT you should try to avoid R rated movies, people who swear alot...etc. But you still need God to give you strength. Because we cannot do it on our own. Or at least with most things we can't. Though really from a human perspective we tend to think "Well I work and pay my bills, I didn't need God for that!", but the fact is God is in charge of that. He is the one that maybe got you that job. SO really we ALWAYS need His help.

We just have to lead the best lives we can as christians and get across that finish line in the best condition we can achieve (with Gods help). Though lack in trying because we feel "theres no way to stop" may lead to other issues when you cross that line.

NothingIsImpossible said:

I'm one of those people who dislikes other christians who say "If you were a real christian, God would give you the strength to stop!". Because that would imply, if you were a real christian, your life would be without sin. You would never mess up. Which is impossible. Even the bible says we will mess up sometimes and never fully mature to PERFECT like Jesus. After all if Jesus was tempted while on earth, theres no way we will be perfect like him.

Now this doesn't mean we shouldn't try of course. Its our lives basically, try and try and a try. For some they can get rid of alot of sins. Such as a porn addicted, alcoholic, drug addicted christian may be able to stop all three things until they day they die. But for the other person who has the same, maybe they can stop, but lets say their porn addiction pops up every once and awhile, it may be hard to stop. And even if someone claims to stop something, it doesn't mean their are other sins they aren't doing. Such as I notice those who claim to be perfect are in fact in sin because they are prideful, judgmental and "holier then thou". See, sin is impossible to avoid your whole life.

As for the question itself, we do have ways to improve. God. I mean yes we can and should take obvious steps in life to help stop a sin. Such as if you swear ALOT you should try to avoid R rated movies, people who swear alot...etc. But you still need God to give you strength. Because we cannot do it on our own. Or at least with most things we can't. Though really from a human perspective we tend to think "Well I work and pay my bills, I didn't need God for that!", but the fact is God is in charge of that. He is the one that maybe got you that job. SO really we ALWAYS need His help.

We just have to lead the best lives we can as christians and get across that finish line in the best condition we can achieve (with Gods help). Though lack in trying because we feel "theres no way to stop" may lead to other issues when you cross that line.

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to your entire post.

Just wanted to add a few things about the part in red. When a Christian says 'If you were a real Christian' the phrase itself shows doubt. If there are 'real' Christians than there are also people who are 'not real Christians'. So immediately one thinks, 'what if I'm not a real Christian?'. It puts doubt about who they are in Christ. It puts doubt that they are not working hard enough or proving they are 'real'.

What we should teach is the Holy Spirit 'will' teach. A fact. A statement. God will save and does save those who come to Him in faith. So one should then wonder not if they are a 'real' Christian, but if their FAITH in Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit lives in them. Because the Holy Spirit and Jesus do change those who have faith. And ALL with the Holy Spirit are sealed to Christ in the New Covenant. Christ does not break His covenant.

Sanctification is God's way of being seperated from sin. This breaks the power of cancelled sin. You gain victory over sin by dying to it. If one can't stop a sin, then they are in bondage. Deliverance and getting freed from curses will solve this. I had to go outside the local church to receive this ministry as in order to do this, it cannot be swayed by corrupt doctrine. It is the pure word of God guided by the Holy Spirit. One can find out about this ministry on YouTube. Jacob's Well Ministries Inc.

mikemack said:

In the last year I've watched as my faith has taken a large decline. It initially began over the idea of not being able to stop living a lust filled life (but that isn't what this question is about), and after talking to my girlfriend I realized there seems to be this huge hole in my knowledge about living as a sinner.

You see my girlfriend is a social worker, and constantly has to deal with patients who do not have the ability to properly reason. The idea that they need God is almost impossible for some of them to grasp. And the idea that they could stop the sinful ways they live? It's basically impossible. Like asking a potato to run.

Or I have a friend who was sexually abused growing up. He is a smart person, but his whole view on sexuality has completely been distorted. And we basically ask him to just "stop sinning"?

I don't understand it. I can understand a life living in pain, or without something. At least that has taught me something in my journey. But living a life of sin, where hope to remove it is essentially non existent? I don't understand how God can put us in that place. We didn't ask for these things to be part of our lives, they're just there. And we're told we need to remove them from our lives.

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Ron Coates said:

Sanctification is God's way of being seperated from sin. This breaks the power of cancelled sin. You gain victory over sin by dying to it. If one can't stop a sin, then they are in bondage. Deliverance and getting freed from curses will solve this. I had to go outside the local church to receive this ministry as in order to do this, it cannot be swayed by corrupt doctrine. It is the pure word of God guided by the Holy Spirit. One can find out about this ministry on YouTube. Jacob's Well Ministries Inc.

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Why does God need to separate from our sin while we are becoming sanctified?

We have already been justified by Christ's blood. God is not hiding from us. We commune with Him everyday and live in Spirit and truth.

Where did you get this idea? Verses please.

Second question, we died (when justified) to sin, in Christ. We no longer serve sin butChrist. We are under new ownership. Jesus bought our lives with His blood. Paid in full! So in your theology does Christ need to die again? Did the Lord lie in the cross when He said 'It is finished ?'
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ToBeLoved said:

Why does God need to separate from our sin while we are becoming sanctified?

We have already been justified by Christ's blood. God is not hiding from us. We commune with Him everyday and live in Spirit and truth.

Where did you get this idea? Verses please.

Second question, we died (when justified) to sin, in Christ. We no longer serve sin butChrist. We are under new ownership. Jesus bought our lives with His blood. Paid in full! So in your theology does Christ need to die again? Did the Lord lie in the cross when He said 'It is finished ?'
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Hi. One does not get separated from sin while being sanctified, one is separated from sin by being sanctified. 1st Peter 1:9
Justification: In the court of God's law, the fine against me was paid in full by Christ. My part is to believe it. Which I do. When justified, my spirit was also reborn.
Sanctification: This is a life-long process of of dealing with my soul, which consists of mind, will and emotion. This involves me denying self, taking up my cross and following Jesus. The reason God doesn't sanctify me all at once is because it would destroy me. No, Jesus doesn't die more than once.
Sanctification: When Jesus returns I will receive my new body and from then on I'll be with Him forever. This is what I want. To be in the presence of my Father. So I hope I clarified things for you. Peace. P.S. Justification is when the legal charges against me for sin are dealt with. My spirit is also reborn. Sanctification is when the actual results of sin are dealt with. Some call this inner healing and deliverance, I call it the daily cross. Glorification is when the results of sin on my body are dealt with by me receiving my new, sin-free body. If I live, I live by Christ; if I die, my gain."

mikemack said:

In the last year I've watched as my faith has taken a large decline. It initially began over the idea of not being able to stop living a lust filled life (but that isn't what this question is about), and after talking to my girlfriend I realized there seems to be this huge hole in my knowledge about living as a sinner.

You see my girlfriend is a social worker, and constantly has to deal with patients who do not have the ability to properly reason. The idea that they need God is almost impossible for some of them to grasp. And the idea that they could stop the sinful ways they live? It's basically impossible. Like asking a potato to run.

Or I have a friend who was sexually abused growing up. He is a smart person, but his whole view on sexuality has completely been distorted. And we basically ask him to just "stop sinning"?

I don't understand it. I can understand a life living in pain, or without something. At least that has taught me something in my journey. But living a life of sin, where hope to remove it is essentially non existent? I don't understand how God can put us in that place. We didn't ask for these things to be part of our lives, they're just there. And we're told we need to remove them from our lives.

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there is no way by man's own effort, if there was - Christ need not be born a human and die. sin is the very reason for the gospel, and the second birth the result of such. For when God saves people, HE ALSO CHANGES them. and there is the change and ability against sin you are looking for.

mikemack said:

In the last year I've watched as my faith has taken a large decline. It initially began over the idea of not being able to stop living a lust filled life (but that isn't what this question is about), and after talking to my girlfriend I realized there seems to be this huge hole in my knowledge about living as a sinner.

You see my girlfriend is a social worker, and constantly has to deal with patients who do not have the ability to properly reason. The idea that they need God is almost impossible for some of them to grasp. And the idea that they could stop the sinful ways they live? It's basically impossible. Like asking a potato to run.

Or I have a friend who was sexually abused growing up. He is a smart person, but his whole view on sexuality has completely been distorted. And we basically ask him to just "stop sinning"?

I don't understand it. I can understand a life living in pain, or without something. At least that has taught me something in my journey. But living a life of sin, where hope to remove it is essentially non existent? I don't understand how God can put us in that place. We didn't ask for these things to be part of our lives, they're just there. And we're told we need to remove them from our lives.

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Forgive me please, I am not able to read all that was said up until now. But I thought this a very good question.

You're right, it would be pretty unfair and unhelpful if God simply dumped a list of "Thou shalt nots" on us and expected us to muster ourselves up to live by them on our own strength of will, when we weren't able to do so before, since no one who lives is sinless (except Christ).

And yet, Scriptures tell us repeatedly not to sin. So where does that leave us?

First, it is impossible to do on our own. In fact, if we WERE able to manage it, we would almost certainly become puffed up and prideful over it and since that is also a sin, well ... you see, that sinless person is in fact sinning (and the sin of pride is far more spiritually dangerous than that "little white lie" you didn't tell).

All purification and progress is made with the help of God. And when we fully understand this, it helps us be less likely to become proud ourselves. Indeed, expecting perfection in ourselves is yet another form of pride. Instead we ought to recognize that we stepped away from God's help and fell down once again as a result, and should get back up, ask forgiveness, and seek His gracious help to do better.

The further truth is that there are MANY tools to help in this effort, but they are not widely practiced, have been forgotten or rejected by some, are misunderstood at times, or misapplied (with results that might be worse than not trying at all).

For example, fasting as a discipline when properly applied can help us realize that we do not have to be at the mercy of our physical appetites, can strengthen our resolve, help us realize our own weakness, and help us focus on God.

We can also learn to identify temptation as it approaches and deny it entry into our minds. Cutting off sin before it even begins to take root is one of the greatest helps.

There is much, much more. We need to learn to see God not as some distant judge observing us and ready to bang down the gavel after we sin, but rather learn to see Him as a loving Father that has a problem with sin because He knows how it disfigures our souls, our bodies, our lives, our relationships. He loves us and wants us to be healthy in body and spirit, to heal our minds and hearts and our relationships, for the sake of His love. He has made ways and will help us in these efforts, for the healing of ourselves.

mikemack said:

But living a life of sin, where hope to remove it is essentially non existent? I don't understand how God can put us in that place.

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What you say here is the exact opposite of the gospel message. Here are a few simple things for you and others to consider:

Faith is something that gets an answer.

The Holy Spirit is called the Holy Spirit because he is holy. This means being filled with the Holy Spirit means being filled with God's holiness by faith not your own inability to be holy that comes from looking to Self...

The role of Jesus is not to forgive sin only but to 'deliver his people from their sins.'