God breathed? Is this literal?

[Vance]

Andy, have you heard of the word "anthropomorphism"?

Do you really limit God to a "being" with human-like features? God is the all-powerful creator of time, the universe and everything in it. A physical being?!

Truly amazing. I have studied Christian beliefs and theology for decades and I have never heard of anyone who believes as you do on this point, with such a strongly anthropomorphized view of God.

 

[MAC]

How can we approach this verse?

Exo 33:23 And I will take away My hand, and you shall {see} My back parts. But My face shall not be seen.

 

[MAC]

God is wonderful judge! Even do He is a Spirit he has a hand, a back and face.

 

[Vance]

Figuratively. God's glory and immensity is so great, He is so much more than we can possibly grasp and understand, that we can't possibly see his "face", his true and full nature. We can only see the "back parts", those parts which are in some way graspable by our meager human intellect.

Also, remember, God can take on a human appearance if He chooses to in order to interact with humans. Even then, though, He takes on a non-human form, such as the bush, a wind, a still, small voice, a pillar of fire or smoke, etc. The fact that He can take on any variety of shapes like this is further evidence that He does not have a humanoid shape to begin with.

 

[MAC]

Such a GLORY!

 

[andy153]

Andy, have you heard of the word "anthropomorphism"?

Do you really limit God to a "being" with human-like features? God is the all-powerful creator of time, the universe and everything in it. A physical being?!

Truly amazing. I have studied Christian beliefs and theology for decades and I have never heard of anyone who believes as you do on this point, with such a strongly anthropomorphized view of God.

Thanks vance for your response to my posts. Yes I have heard about everyword you can throw a stick at.

Seems we worship a different God !

The God I worship is indeed male, that is why Jesus is his son and God is his father. I believe in scripture although I am not a literalist. Jesus was glorified in human form on the mount of transfiguration and the father spoke and said this is my beloved son. You require a mouth to speak.

God is a being of spiritual light he is not like us in the sense that we are flesh and blood. However, even as a child I have always understood and believed in a God of parts and passions. I never have and never will believe in a faceless shapeless being who created everything out of nothing.

Jesus is now equal with his father yet for all his glory he still has a body has he not.

All my believes are based on the Bible and not on the any other form of scripture as some have suggested.

thanks again for your input to my posts, I'll leave it at that

with love and respect, andy153

 

[TwinCrier]

So, we know that God did not use literal "breath", and did not literally "breathe".

Really, we know this? I don't. I suyppose if it's difficult to believe God created the world in 6 days, even breating must be an impossibility with God. We were made in His image. It would seem since God has hands and a voice, He just might have lungs or a least the ability to breathe if He chooses.

 

[KleinerApfel]

God can take on a human appearance if He chooses to in order to interact with humans. Even then, though, He takes on a non-human form, such as the bush, a wind, a still, small voice, a pillar of fire or smoke, etc. The fact that He can take on any variety of shapes like this is further evidence that He does not have a humanoid shape to begin with.

There are instances in the OT where God comes down to interact with humans and appears as a man; theophanies.

He doesn't have to maintain the form of a man, or anything else, since He remains omnipresent as Spirit, but apparently He can choose to take the appearance of a man, and even be solid enough to wrestle with Jacob!

So breathing would be as easy as...
well, breathing!

God bless, Susana

 

[Vance]

Really, we know this? I don't. I suyppose if it's difficult to believe God created the world in 6 days, even breating must be an impossibility with God. We were made in His image. It would seem since God has hands and a voice, He just might have lungs or a least the ability to breathe if He chooses.

Again with the strawman. Who said anything about anything being impossible with God.

And do you really think that is what "in His image" means?

Do you really think God is a physical being with hands and a voice, etc?

 

[KleinerApfel]

Do you really think God is a physical being with hands and a voice, etc?

Actually, that question is the straw man!

God does not have to be a physical being in order to physically manipulate His creation.

Blessings, Susana

 

[Vance]

Correct, He can manipulate anything He likes, even as a spirit. But the point is whether He would have "breath" and "breathe" as we know it without adopting a physical form for the purpose. The answer to this is no, it would not be "breathing" as we know it, even though He could definitely achieve His goal of infusing the "breath". It would be some OTHER process, which would likely be something we could not understand. True, He could adopt a physical body for this purpose in order to have literal breath, but why would we need to posit something so dramatic rather than just accept the most simplistic meaning: that it is figurative for some action of God rather than literal "breathing"?

This is even more important since we are probably not talking about "air" anyway, but about the infusion of God's Spirit or a soul. Such a Spirit is associated elsewhere is Scripture with "breath", we don't really think human breath is Spirit, or that the Spirit is actually human breath. It is a figurative term we associate for "Spirit" since we can not actually grasp what the Spirit is really like. It gives us an easy handle on things, and an evocative and powerful manner of discussing it.

So, if we are not talking about literal human breath, why would we need to be talking about literal "breathing" by God?

 

[KleinerApfel]

I think I've had enough of this circular discussion, and I'm sure you have too!
Let's agree to differ, and go and do something more useful!

God bless, Susana

 

[Vance]

Sure thing. :0)

 

[rmwilliamsll]

I think I've had enough of this circular discussion, and I'm sure you have too!
Let's agree to differ, and go and do something more useful!

God bless, Susana

it is neither a circular discussion, nor useless. but is in fact the basic foundation of hermeneutics.

The fundamentalist would have us simply put up the Bible and read it, with 21st century culture, modern science and historical notions, deeply engrained Scottish common sense realism, certainly both subgroup and denominational interpretive grids in place. But most importantly in doing so, this person would have us believe that their readings are the only proper way to do it. .....

And that is what is going on. The fundamentalist hijacking of the Scriptures in order to prove a particular modern interpretive tradition. so i disagree, it is important.

does God have lungs to breath? our Mormon posters would say yes, as have anthropomorphists in all ages.
if He doesn't have lungs then the image of breath is a metaphor and is figurative, thus God is accommodating Himself to our frail frame.

....

 

[TwinCrier]

It's not God accomadating our farail frame, it's our frail frame made by Him in His image. If God says He breathed, who am I to argue?

 

[herev]

I certainly don't know all church's doctrines, but this is from the United Methodist Book of Discipline. It is a part of the Articles of REligion of teh Methodist Church which have not been changed since 1808.
From Paragraph 103, p 59,
Article I—Of Faith in the Holy Trinity
There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body or parts, of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness; the maker and preserver of all things, both visible and invisible. And in unity of this Godhead there are three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
emphasis mine

 

[Vance]

It's not God accomadating our farail frame, it's our frail frame made by Him in His image. If God says He breathed, who am I to argue?

Don't argue, just figure what He MEANT by "breathed". When God says He will fold us under His wing, do you just accept that He has a wing? I am not sure if I get your hermenuetical process.

 

[TwinCrier]

Well, the Holy Spirit does appear as a dove and is part of the triune Godhead, so even this may be more true than we realize. However it's not God made in my frail, imperfect human image, but I in His.

 

[Vance]

Well, the Holy Spirit does appear as a dove and is part of the triune Godhead, so even this may be more true than we realize. However it's not God made in my frail, imperfect human image, but I in His.

So, is God's physical form a dove or a human? Are you sure that He HAS a physical form? Or have you considered that He is spirit and is able to take on any physical form He wishes, when He wants to take a form?

And do you really think "in His image" means that our physical design is somehow a reflection of God, rather than the more usual reading that this is discussing our soul, our ability to know and commune with God?

And why do you think accomodation has anything to do with God being made in our frail image? Williams was talking about God presenting His Scripture in a way that acommodates itself to our limited understanding. Do you really think you can comprehend the full and complete glory of God were He to show it to you?

 

[TwinCrier]

Wow, you answered all your own questions for me. Thanks.