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Featured God as much of a woman as a man

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by GaveMeJoy, May 12, 2020.

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  1. GaveMeJoy

    GaveMeJoy Well-Known Member

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    Disclaimer to male readers: I am a straight and manly 6 foot 200 pound man, who is red blooded and I am not a progressive or “feminist” or liberal. It’s ok to keep reading and not just dismiss it because you think I’m a woman.

    God is a spirit being. God had no gender or physical representation. While Jesus manifested as a male human, he existed as a member of the triune God for eternity before creation.
    While it can be argued Jesus is entirely male, there is no scriptural defense for the position that God is male in any way.


    The scriptures use the male pronoun to refer to God by default, through translation, and because the scriptures were written in patriarchal societies where the male pronoun would be used for a deity.

    As Goddess is a spirit and gender free, she does not have a gender.

    The previous sentence sounds weird and is inaccurate. It also doesn’t use common scriptural male terms for God so it feels uncomfortable. However, it is equally as inaccurate as the following sentence:

    As God is a spirit and gender free he does not have a gender.

    God is not male. It’s OK to admit it, it won’t make you turn blue. :)

    but seriously, where am I wrong, any scripture to demonstrate God is male? Do you have a problem with my perspective here shared (other than my Lame jokes) or is it acceptable theologically.

    thanks! I’m mostly trying this out because I want to talk to my pastor about it but I don’t want to miss anything important. Thanks!
     
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  2. ewq1938

    ewq1938 When something is "mind bottling" Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    God is male, called "Father" in the OT and the NT. When God made Adam in his own image, he made him male. Later when he wanted Adam to have a companion, he made a female from him.


    Mal_2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

    1Ch_29:10 Wherefore David blessed the LORD before all the congregation: and David said, Blessed be thou, LORD God of Israel our father, for ever and ever.

    Isa_63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

    Isa_64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

    Psa_89:26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.


    God the Father is always described as looking like an older male in every description that appears in scripture.

    Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.


    Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

    Since we know Jesus was a male, we also know the Father is a male who looks like the Son.
     
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  3. archer75

    archer75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Gen 1:27 says he created them, male and female, in His image. Our church affirms this by censing everyone present, showing respect for the image of God in every person.
     
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  4. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    Sex (the male/female binary) is a function of biology. Since God is not biological, I agree that it is correct to say that God in Godself does not have sex or gender. (Of course the incarnate Christ was male, but the important thing is not Christ's maleness, but Christ's humanity).

    That said, I wouldn't use the term "goddess," not least because of its Pagan connotations.
     
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  5. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The one thing you have not accounted for is that the Father is ... male. God as Trinity does not have gender but the Father does, as does the Son. That God is not male or female is good theology ... as long as the Father is not morphed into something other than the Father.
     
  6. ReesePiece23

    ReesePiece23 The Peanut Buttery Member.

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    God is the hub to ALL human consciousness. If you could physically see Him, I'm not sure that the human brain would know how to cope. It would be like trying to fit a four dimensional shape into a two dimensional world, and all concept of male/female would go out of the window.

    However, I always refer to Him as father. I don't even call Him God that often.
     
  7. Philip_B

    Philip_B all shall be well and all shall be well and ... Supporter

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    Article I

    Of Faith in the Holy Trinity
    There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body, parts, or passions; of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness; the Maker, and Preserver of all things both visible and invisible. And in unity of this Godhead there be three Persons, of one substance, power, and eternity; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.​

    As an Anglican, I have been very aware of the profound phrase in Article 1 of the 39 Articles, 'without body, parts, or passions'.

    It is also reminiscent of the quote from Voltaire
    "In the beginning God created man in His own image, and man has been trying to repay the favor ever since.”​

    And of course the clear words from Jesus to the Woman at the well
    John 4:24
    God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.’​

    Linguistic Gender in Hebrew and Greek should be clearly distinguished from gender identity as expressed in the human experience of life. Though interestingly the Hebrew Rhua which we translate as Spirit is Feminine in Linguistic gender yet most normally rendered in English as a neuter. There has been substantial change in the way we use gender pronouns in English in the last 50 years, (and some of the change has been almost forced, but none the less real). The proposition you are putting is not without some good historic academic tradition and certainly makes more sense that many propositions that would fall short of Voltaire's challenge.
     
  8. IntriKate

    IntriKate Member

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    I prefer to think of him as male, a Father, a refuge.
     
  9. Billy UK

    Billy UK Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: May 15, 2020
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  10. ewq1938

    ewq1938 When something is "mind bottling" Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Yes and those terms have real meaning else it would be "genderless adult person and genderless younger person and the Holy Spirit".

    Father and Son do tell us they are males. Certainly in the case of the Father it isn't the same as a human male is male but the Father himself refers to himself in a male sense.
     
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  11. Billy UK

    Billy UK Well-Known Member

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    .​


     
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
  12. James A

    James A Member Supporter

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    I must be missing something, where does Bible say Father is male?
     
  13. Billy UK

    Billy UK Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: May 15, 2020
  14. Dkh587

    Dkh587 David דויד Supporter

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    The divine nature consists of male & female attributes/characteristics, although God is referred to as male, father and he.
     
  15. James A

    James A Member Supporter

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    Incarnate Son is male but my original post was about Father
     
  16. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    The problem with using this to dismiss how God chose to be identified is that pagan goddesses were routinely worshiped in Old Testament times by Israelites, Babylonians, Egyptians, Greeks, and other peoples. If the sexism as it relates to theism is that strong, why would they have any goddesses at all?

    Additionally, Jesus upheld God as the Father. If you're prepared to accept the Gospel record that Jesus was male, why not also accept what he said about God?

    Finally, what are you trying to accomplish with changing how God is identified in Scripture?
     
  17. archer75

    archer75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Being male is a quality that (some) creatures have.

    That we have traditions of referring to God as He (as in Scripture) doesn't mean God (the Father) is a male creature (part of creation).

    It is certainly true that the incarnate Christ was a male human.
     
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  18. ewq1938

    ewq1938 When something is "mind bottling" Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    We should also keep in mind the probability of God having been male long before He created anything that we understand as being male.
     
  19. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    But disembodied (unembodied?) maleness is meaningless.
     
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  20. archer75

    archer75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    " It is plain, then, that there is a God. But what He is in His essence and nature is absolutely incomprehensible and unknowable. For it is evident that He is incorporeal. For how could that possess body which is infinite, and boundless, and formless, and intangible and invisible, in short, simple and not compound?" -St. John Damascene

    God ("apart" from the incarnate Christ) does not have a body. Maleness is a quality of a body.

    We can say that God is God the Father or God the Son, but that is not the same as saying that God is male.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
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  21. ewq1938

    ewq1938 When something is "mind bottling" Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Why? Isn't that just a limitation of our own perceptions of what it is to be male? God was male before anything else existed.

    Also, the bible mentions spirits (ghosts) and my Grandmother saw a male ghost once. Maleness is not limited to a physical body.
     
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