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bling

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I believe time is based on math. Is math not real?

Can 2 + 2 = 5?
Or does 2 + 2 = 4?
Even Jesus says there are 12 hours in a day.
So for Jesus, time exists.
Time is not based on math. Time has been experimentally shown to be relative over the last 100 years and no experiment contradicts that observation. There is a real problem with time being relative in our universe since a changing universe would need a universal clock which would need to be controlling from outside the universe which is a contradiction in it self. The block Universe seems more likely scientifically for now?
 
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Sounds like some kind of science fiction movie and not the Bible.

Again, this kind of thinking is foreign to Scripture. I am not totally without fault, I used to think the same way about GOD, until I started to reject the philosophies of this world and it's way of thinking. Your belief comes from time travel fiction and not God's Word. While God certainly has the power to exist in all points in time, this is not what is revealed to us in Scripture. If God existed in all points in time, He would be a slave to time (repeating the same past events we read about in Scripture - over and over and over and over again). But God is the master over time, and time is not master over God.
 
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Yes, it is. God says do this on the 7th day or do this on the 10th day, etc. Jesus says there are 12 hours in a day. All time keeping. All math. All these things come from God. So you are disagreeing without really thinking things through logically. Numbers are a part of math. Our time keeping is based on math. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.... etc. This is the counting of the passage of time. In fact, several countable seconds or minutes from now, a person is going to reply and mark the passage of time (with math).
 
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Hey look! It was me! Time has passed since my last post. This time is measurable. It is not unknowable. Math, time keeping determines how many seconds or minutes have passed since my previous post. Was God present in our world between my two posts? Is not God living in those faithful believers between those few minutes I posted that is measurable? I would say... yes. God is a part of our time. God interacts with time because we can see God do certain things in His Word only once. We see a progression of how God did one thing in the past and how things have changed. This is all measurable by time (Which God is a part of).
 
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Neogaia777

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Perception is reality, and reality is perceiving...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Is it possible for a Triune God, to have one or more of them in or out of, or in or outside time with us...? Or could, or do, or can, all and each one of them, go back and forth, or do they go back and forth from in or outside time with us, or apart from us, or what...?

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Perception is reality, and reality is perceiving...

God Bless!
These "things" are only "real" because "we said they should be real", or needed them to be real, right now, for us, in this place, and from and by being in this place, and being brought up in this place, when, it might be quite be, maybe even very much more, "different" "elsewhere"...

God Bless!
 
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TheLostCoin

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What about when God shown Moses his back parts?
Was not God interacting in our time to do that?

Your initial posts seems to imply that time is something that is greater than God Himself, which it isn't - God isn't subject to the rules which He Himself sets, makes, and can change.

He only became subject to the rules of our time when the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us (as far as his human nature is concerned - although this point may be disagreeable by the Oriental Orthodox).

As with all creation, God can directly interact with it, but He isn't bound by it.
 
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ToBeLoved

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I believe time is based on math. Is math not real?

Can 2 + 2 = 5?
Or does 2 + 2 = 4?
Even Jesus says there are 12 hours in a day.
So for Jesus, time exists.
Or, when Jesus was created human, time existed until His death.

But before He was created human did time exist for Him as the Son of God?

Or after, when He returned to heaven?

I believe time is part of the earthly existance, not eternal or higher than human beings.
 
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Neogaia777

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We dictated and maybe do dictate our own reality to one degree or another, yet as for knowing "exactly how that works and operates" and all the very marvelous complexities of it, I do not know it all, or know nearly enough, when it comes to those things...

God Bless!
 
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Bruce Leiter

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I think that we need to stay within the limits of Scripture as God's inspired Word. It does not solve all speculative questions. John Calvin had a good rule, "Go as far as the Bible goes, and then stop." That's hard for many people to do in this scientific age, but it's necessary for us who believe in the true God, who is mysterious apart from what he has revealed about himself.

As far as our salvation goes, both Romans 8:29,30 and Ephesians 1 are clear that God knew and loved believers before he created the universe. Thus, he knows, that is, loves true Christians before they are born. The words translated "know" in the OT and NT between individuals means a personal, loving relationship between them, not just knowing with our minds. Therefore, "foreknowledge" means God's "fore-loving" and choice of his own. What other passages would you point to about this question? I can't think of any. Warmest regards, retired pastor Bruce Leiter.
 
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I am not saying that God is bound by time. I already stated in my first sentence within my OP (original post) that God has no boundaries. God is certainly most capable of existing outside of time or in all points in time. But we need ask ourselves, does He actually exist in that way currently? I don't believe so because it would clearly contradict God resting (stopping from His work) on the 7th day.
 
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ToBeLoved

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You cannot get out of your own head.

Seems like 90% of this thread understands it and somehow you do not. But God being eternal and existing out side of time is Biblical. Maybe not within your understanding or making sense, but that doesn't mean it's not Biblical.
 
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Jesus desired for a glory to share in the Father that He once had before the creation of the world.

"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." (John 17:5).

This means time still operated differently for the second person of the Godhead (i.e. the Living Word or the Logos) before the Incarnation even.
 
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TheLostCoin

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I think your problem here is you're conflating the measurement of time with time itself.

Math is a measurement; it isn't something that really objectively exists; Math is simply a formulation in our mind of measurement in terms of the logic of the universe.

If Christ miraculously changed 5 loaves of bread such that it could feed 5000 people, we say He "multiplied" it, regardless of any mechanism. He could have divided it infinitely, He could've instantaneously cloned it, He could have caused them to fade into existence, but regardless of whatever mechanism He used, we will still say He multiplied it because that obeys how we perceive the logic of the world.

If I had 2 apples and 2 apples, and I said I have 5 apples, that doesn't change the fact I have 4 apples - I would just be calling 4 apples 5 apples, because it's how we perceive the rules of logic.

Time itself is something that does objectively exist, however. We try to measure it in order to understand it, applying mathematical rules, but the fact that time objectively moves differently on different planets (according to astrophysics) means that it's a reality that really does exist. If I made the same exact time measurements on two different planets, I would come with two different results, even obeying our mathematical, logical perception, because time is objectively different on these planets.

Even more simple than this is our own planet. We can measure 60 seconds anywhere, but the time of day in Paris, France is different than the time of day in San Francisco, United States, despite both people existing simultaneously and counting at the same rate.
 
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Bruce Leiter

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what are God's 'back parts'?

I assume that you're talking about God's spectacular appearance to Moses in Exodus 34. Since God the Father has no human body and John's visions of "the one on the throne" give us no clue what he looks like, I don't know what his "back parts" look like. Jesus took his human body to heaven. I just think that God put it in language that Moses and we could understand. Some day you and I will see him "face to face." But what else it means, we will find out.
 
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I can say the same for you.
Anyways, you are merely espousing an opinion and it is not offering proof that your position is true.
 
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Neogaia777

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If we would just change in "what we think to be (or can conceive of or to be) "possible" (vs. impossible) at least, that would be a very good step, and I would think in the right direction... But that would not be the end of it by any means...

God Bless!
 
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