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God and science

Discussion in 'Physical & Life Sciences' started by paul becke, Nov 17, 2013.

  1. paul becke

    paul becke Regular Member Supporter

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  2. Wiccan_Child

    Wiccan_Child Contributor

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    A collection of out-of-context quote-mines. Since the article likes Albert Einstein so much, here are actual verifiable quotes courtesy of Wikiquotes:

    In 1929, a New York rabbi asked Einstein if he believed in God. Einstein's response: "I believe in Spinoza's God, Who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind." He later expanded on this, writing: "I can understand your aversion to the use of the term 'religion' to describe an emotional and psychological attitude which shows itself most clearly in Spinoza... I have not found a better expression than 'religious' for the trust in the rational nature of reality that is, at least to a certain extent, accessible to human reason."

    And, if that wasn't enough:

    "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

    Einstein batted for our team. Case closed. Please let the great man rest and stop butchering his words.
     
  3. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Je ne suis pas une de vos élèves.

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    Same old apologetic MO. Asking of others what you are not willing to do. Will you, Paul Becke, adopt Einstein's God?

    Oh, why do I even ask.
     
  4. Strathos

    Strathos No one important

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    Does it matter what Einstein or anyone else thought about God?
     
  5. Davian

    Davian fallible

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    No. This appears to be part of Paul's throw-everything-at-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks form of apologetics.
     
  6. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    I don't think Einstein knew what he was.
     
  7. dad

    dad Undefeated

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    The case may be closed in a closed and made up mind. However, I think it is safe to say that a lot of the quotes from the OP, do reflect a belief in God in some men of science.


    Einstein said a lot of things. Obviously he was not a Christian, or a believing Jew. He did seem to embrace, at least in part of his life, some sort of spirit and god, however. Do you claim gods or spirits WC? If not, your team is not on the side of Einstein!


    Try not to falsely ride on the coattails of others for support of your team.


    Now here are some quotes from old Al.

    "
    Albert Einstein Quotes on Spirituality

    [​IMG]
    1. I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details.
    2. Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.
    3. My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.
    4. The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge.
    5. Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.
    6. The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.
    7. There is no logical way to the discovery of elemental laws. There is only the way of intuition, which is helped by a feeling for the order lying behind the appearance.
    8. The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
    9. We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality.
    10. Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods.
    11. When the solution is simple, God is answering.
    12. God does not play dice with the universe.
    13. The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books—-a mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects.
    14. The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity.
    15. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism.
    16. The real problem is in the hearts and minds of men. It is easier to denature plutonium than to denature the evil spirit of man.
    17. "
    Albert Einstein Quotes on Spirituality
     
  8. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    One note on the quote mines of dad.

    Einstein did say #12, he admitted that he was wrong later in life.
     
  9. dad

    dad Undefeated

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    You claiming the Jewish site lied and made up the rest of the quotes??

    By the way, give the source for the later denial of Einstein you cite.
     
  10. Davian

    Davian fallible

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    No, what they have done is quote-mined him chronologically, to misrepresent his views in their favour. It doesn't look like he believed in your god, or the Jewish god.

    Here is a dated quote: "I received your letter of June 10th. I have never talked to a Jesuit priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me. From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist." - Albert Einstein, letter to Guy H. Raner Jr, July 2, 1945, responding to a rumor that a Jesuit priest had caused Einstein to convert from atheism.

    Einstein Quotes on Atheism & Freethought: Was Einstein an Atheist, Freethinker?

    Still, it doesn't matter if Einstein had been made Pope, in the context of the OP.
     
  11. dad

    dad Undefeated

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    Who said he did? The point is he believed in spiritual powers!

    It matters that he talks of a god and spirit six ways from Sunday! And don't try to misrepresent some quote about how he might 'look' in the eyes of some religious folks!

    Atheists do not believe God intelligently made the universe or that there are spirits.
     
  12. Davian

    Davian fallible

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    I don't care if he believed in Santa Claus.
    Are you so desperate that this matters to you? It doesn't look like he believed in your god, or the Jewish god, does it?
    Theists, to date, yourself included, cannot demonstrate that there are any gods, or that the universe is intelligently made, or that there is anything such thing as "spirits" like those mentioned in your "holy" books. Your efforts here justify atheism. ^_^
     
  13. Tempus Fugit

    Tempus Fugit Member

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    No he did not. Einstein made it clear on multiple occasions that he did not believe in any personal god or extra-scientific deity. He spoke of "god" in a metaphorical sense. I do that as well and am hardly a theist. Not that it matters what some random smart person once thought.
     
  14. dad

    dad Undefeated

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    He believed in more than science! Spirits and gods and an intelligently designed universe is not atheist fare.

    Who cares? He believed in something spiritual. There is no rule that says he had to have it right.


    Ateists, to date, yourself included, cannot demonstrate that there are not any gods, or that the universe is not intelligently made, or that there is not anything such thing as "spirits" like those mentioned in the very wonderful and very "holy" book. Your efforts here justify theism. ^_^
     
  15. dad

    dad Undefeated

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    False. To have a universe intelligently designed requires a very extra scientific God!!!!!!

    No. He made it clear even in the quotes I cited, that it was a real spirit.

    Ha. So now you distance yourself from Einstein.


    Keep running.
     
  16. Davian

    Davian fallible

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    Asking someone to prove a negative? That is desperate as it gets. :)

    dad, defeated. ^_^
     
  17. gungasnake

    gungasnake Active Member

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    Again, in real life, if you wish to avoid being quoted as havingf said something, there is an overwhelmingly simply way to do that:

    DON'T SAY IT!!!
     
  18. Davian

    Davian fallible

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    You think that excuses quote mining? lol.

    I think magenta is more your color, though.:)
     
  19. gungasnake

    gungasnake Active Member

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    "Quote mining(TM)" is a fictitious sin. You'd never find more than a couple of situations in which quoting out of context would invert the original meaning of a piece of writing and nonetheless, evolutionists claim that others are doing that with every one of many quotes in which competent scientists have negative things to say about evolution.

    de Nile...

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Wiccan_Child

    Wiccan_Child Contributor

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    Except that's exactly what the article did: it took quotes by Einstein, and stripped them of context so they would imply something different. I cited, with context, Einstein's real beliefs. The article you cited took his quotes out of context it bolster its point, when actually Einstein never believed what the article claims.

    Denial indeed.
     
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