God and mental disorders

[Migdala]

Ok, the Bible says that a Christian will be known by his fruit....and the fruits of the Spirit are love, joy, peace, etc. etc. etc. We are told to love others as ourselves, and if a Christian hates his brother, he is not a true Christian, etc. etc. etc.

So what if a person truly believes in Jesus Christ-believes He is the Son of God, died and rose from the dead, and is now in Heaven at the right hand of God. That person has asked Jesus to be Lord of their life, and has turned from their sin.

Now suppose said person has mental disorders such as Bipolar Disorder, major depression, OCD, Anxiety disorders, etc. etc. etc.......and those disorders PREVENT that person from acting like a son or daughter of God?

Suppose their mental disorder makes them constantly doubt their salvation? Suppose their mental disorder makes them lash out in extreme anger all the time-cussing other people out, yelling, slamming doors, or whatever. Suppose trials and tribulations happen to them, like it does to each Christian, and that person cannot respond in faith because they have a severe anxiety disorder and suffer from panic attacks every time some tiny thing goes wrong?

Or if that person confesses a sin over and over and over and over, because their mind simply cannot grasp that God has forgiven them, because of OCD/Scrupulosity? Isn't doubting one's salvation just another name for UNBELIEF? And weren't the Israelites killed by God and not able to enter the Promised Land because of their unbelief in the first place?

Each of us are TESTED to see how our faith is, the Bible says. So suppose that person fails each and every test because of their mental disorders? Suppose all that person does is want to lay in bed and cry and sleep, because they see other Christians who have that peace and joy of their salvation....yet that person cannot attain it at all because of their mental disorders?

Is that person doomed to Hell, even though they believe in Jesus and have asked Him into their heart?

Remember, a Christian is known by their fruit. And if they don't bear fruit (even though they want to, and try, but cannot because of their disorders), the Bible says they are CUT OFF the vine.

Can people like that even HOPE to make it to Heaven, if they can't live the Christian life and have the peace and joy and assurance of their salvation?

 

[Migdala]

No replies?

 

[foodiepeep]

Or if that person confesses a sin over and over and over and over, because their mind simply cannot grasp that God has forgiven them, because of OCD/Scrupulosity? Isn't doubting one's salvation just another name for UNBELIEF? And weren't the Israelites killed by God and not able to enter the Promised Land because of their unbelief in the first place?

Each of us are TESTED to see how our faith is, the Bible says. So suppose that person fails each and every test because of their mental disorders? Suppose all that person does is want to lay in bed and cry and sleep, because they see other Christians who have that peace and joy of their salvation....yet that person cannot attain it at all because of their mental disorders?

Is that person doomed to Hell, even though they believe in Jesus and have asked Him into their heart?

Remember, a Christian is known by their fruit. And if they don't bear fruit (even though they want to, and try, but cannot because of their disorders), the Bible says they are CUT OFF the vine.

Can people like that even HOPE to make it to Heaven, if they can't live the Christian life and have the peace and joy and assurance of their salvation?

I could've written this post. These are the very worries that plague me every second of every day now via my severe ocd obsessions and intrusive fears. Please read my threads to better understand my story...

 

[Migdala]

I emailed you-maybe we can chat sometime.

 

[Criada]

Remember that above all, God is love and compassion.
Many who have never experienced mental illness see us as somehow failing at Christianity, because Christians 'should' be happy, well adjusted, whatever.
But God sees the heart - and the most important fruit of salvation is love for Him.. even if we can't always show it.
Praying for you

 

[foodiepeep]

I'm still incessantly terrified of being hellbound due to my unbiblical divorce. After over half a year of praying, repenting, pouring over scripture, and reading about grace and forgiveness, I still have yet to find anything that extinguishes that fear. I'm truly beginning to feel hopeless in my turmoil...

I can envision Jesus coming back and taking my ex-spouse up to heaven, and not myself, because *I* was the one who initiated the divorce against him without the cause of infidelity AND I forced him to vacate our home via court order. He complied with everything that I woefully and shamefully decided to orchestrate, but was entirely unwilling to halt the divorce and reconcile with me. I fear the Lord no longer views me as a follower any longer, as my actions are obviously not those of a fruitful believer.

 

[Migdala]

I'm still incessantly terrified of being hellbound due to my unbiblical divorce. After over half a year of praying, repenting, pouring over scripture, and reading about grace and forgiveness, I still have yet to find anything that extinguishes that fear. I'm truly beginning to feel hopeless in my turmoil...

I can envision Jesus coming back and taking my ex-spouse up to heaven, and not myself, because *I* was the one who initiated the divorce against him without the cause of infidelity AND I forced him to vacate our home via court order. He complied with everything that I woefully and shamefully decided to orchestrate, but was entirely unwilling to halt the divorce and reconcile with me. I fear the Lord no longer views me as a follower any longer, as my actions are obviously not those of a fruitful believer.

I don't think that at all. When I got saved, I had already gone through 2 divorces....and the LOVE that God poured out on me when I came back to Him was amazing.

The only sin He will not forgive is rejection of Christ, and thinking that the Holy Spirit is from Satan.

 

[Criada]

Whatever sin you have committed, Jesus' death was enough to cover it, sweetie. We all sin - divorce is no worse and no better than any other sin - it all comes between us and God. And it is all washed away by the blood of Jesus. That's why he died - to pay the price for every sin any of us have committed.
If you get a chance, watch this video - it really helps me when I am feeliung condemned.

YouTube - The Inheritance for Men and Women

 

[Migdala]

Whatever sin you have committed, Jesus' death was enough to cover it, sweetie. We all sin - divorce is no worse and no better than any other sin - it all comes between us and God. And it is all washed away by the blood of Jesus. That's why he died - to pay the price for every sin any of us have committed.
If you get a chance, watch this video - it really helps me when I am feeliung condemned.

YouTube - The Inheritance for Men and Women

That is a beautiful video you posted! I cried, and put it in my favorites!

 

[foodiepeep]

I don't think that at all. When I got saved, I had already gone through 2 divorces....

Weren't all of your divorces the result of infidelity? My point is that my divorce isn't, so I have good reason to fear going to hell...

 

[Migdala]

But it says in the Bible that the only unforgiveable sin is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Any other sin will be forgiven, if you ask God to forgive you....Jesus is our Advocate, and He already died for that sin. That sin is under the blood of Jesus. None of us are perfect after we get saved...our salvation is a work in progress, so to speak. Each sin that is committed by us is horrible to God, and He sees each sin the same...whether we divorce our spouse for no reason, or gossip, or murder someone-it's all the same in God's eyes-it's all sin.

The ONLY sin that cannot be forgiven is the blasphemy of the Spirit, which is believing that the miracles that Jesus does comes from Satan.

I think what has happened to you is that God has forgiven you for the divorce, but you cannot forgive yourself. And Satan is using that to condemn you and to set up strongholds in your mind that are contrary to God's Word. Those strongholds have caused you depression, anxiety, and religious OCD.

Believe me when I say he has done it to me, many times.

 

[russell_1]

Migdala, if you have received Jesus as your savior, and are trusting in Him for your salvation, you will go to heaven. Period. After salvation begins the long, difficult process of sanctification, which will take the rest of our lives. Even the apostle Paul struggled with sin. Read Romans 6.

The Lord understands our weakness. He understands our mental illnesses. He loves you. Your sins are forgiven.

 

[Migdala]

Migdala, if you have received Jesus as your savior, and are trusting in Him for your salvation, you will go to heaven. Period. After salvation begins the long, difficult process of sanctification, which will take the rest of our lives. Even the apostle Paul struggled with sin. Read Romans 6.

The Lord understands our weakness. He understands our mental illnesses. He loves you. Your sins are forgiven.

??? I think you have me mixed up with the person who started the thread....lol I'm not struggling with a sin that I'm worried about. Well, other than stressing over my salvation. You were quoting the wrong person.

 

[russell_1]

??? I think you have me mixed up with the person who started the thread....lol I'm not struggling with a sin that I'm worried about. Well, other than stressing over my salvation. You were quoting the wrong person.

Oops. Sorry about that.

 

[Jem2911]

God doesn't compare people the way we do. Only he truly knows all ur up against and dealing with (including mental disorders). Like the parable of the talents, it came down to people's attitudes and how they dealt with what they had not simply compared to what the next guy dud or didn't have. Also take heart in the fact that faith is a gift and not something that originates with us. If we want more faith we can pray and ask for it.

 

[childofGod31]

Ok, the Bible says that a Christian will be known by his fruit....and the fruits of the Spirit are love, joy, peace, etc. etc. etc. We are told to love others as ourselves, and if a Christian hates his brother, he is not a true Christian, etc. etc. etc.

So what if a person truly believes in Jesus Christ-believes He is the Son of God, died and rose from the dead, and is now in Heaven at the right hand of God. That person has asked Jesus to be Lord of their life, and has turned from their sin.

Now suppose said person has mental disorders such as Bipolar Disorder, major depression, OCD, Anxiety disorders, etc. etc. etc.......and those disorders PREVENT that person from acting like a son or daughter of God?

Suppose their mental disorder makes them constantly doubt their salvation? Suppose their mental disorder makes them lash out in extreme anger all the time-cussing other people out, yelling, slamming doors, or whatever. Suppose trials and tribulations happen to them, like it does to each Christian, and that person cannot respond in faith because they have a severe anxiety disorder and suffer from panic attacks every time some tiny thing goes wrong?

Or if that person confesses a sin over and over and over and over, because their mind simply cannot grasp that God has forgiven them, because of OCD/Scrupulosity? Isn't doubting one's salvation just another name for UNBELIEF? And weren't the Israelites killed by God and not able to enter the Promised Land because of their unbelief in the first place?

Each of us are TESTED to see how our faith is, the Bible says. So suppose that person fails each and every test because of their mental disorders? Suppose all that person does is want to lay in bed and cry and sleep, because they see other Christians who have that peace and joy of their salvation....yet that person cannot attain it at all because of their mental disorders?

Is that person doomed to Hell, even though they believe in Jesus and have asked Him into their heart?

Remember, a Christian is known by their fruit. And if they don't bear fruit (even though they want to, and try, but cannot because of their disorders), the Bible says they are CUT OFF the vine.

Can people like that even HOPE to make it to Heaven, if they can't live the Christian life and have the peace and joy and assurance of their salvation?

It would be extremely unmerciful of God to send such poor people to hell, I think. Thank goodness I believe that there is NO hell. People are a product of genes, programming and circumstances. As such, they don't really have a choice to choose who they will be. They are what life makes them to be. And therefore, I don't believe it would be merciful to send such people to hell.

Yes, of course, God has a right to do what He wants. I just don't think that He would do such unloving things since He claims to be love. If He is love and if it's the truth, then He will act lovingly. So whatever is not according to love, is not according to God. And if people have doctrines contrary to that, then the problem is the doctrines, not God.

Hell idea did not originate in Christianity. In fact, in CAME INTO Christianity from pagan beliefs. In fact, PAUL, NEVER mentioned hell. I don't think he believed in it. He said that punishment for sins is death (not hell). But of course, people then have to twist it to make it fit preconceived ideas and then put ideas in Paul's mouth that he did not originate.

So God is merciful. It says that mercy triumphs over judgment. So whenever a doctrine teaches that it doesn't, there is something wrong with the doctrine (not God).

God is wise enough to know that people don't really have a choice (psychologists know that, but most people don't). So there is no hell. It was a made up idea. Therefore, those mentally ill people will not have to suffer for eternity. They might not get eternal life either (I don't know if it would be possible to make them ok again) but at least they wouldn't be suffering.

When we sow seeds, sometimes fruit grows up good and sometimes bad. We don't hate the bad fruit. We simply discard it because it's an unfortunate side effect. If we have a puppy that got infected with a mad decease, we don't punish the puppy, we get rid of it. When we have mental people, we don't punish them, we contain them to prevent them from harming others. If we do that, surely God is more wise and more merciful and will do the right thing by people....

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

Can people like that even HOPE to make it to Heaven, if they can't live the Christian life and have the peace and joy and assurance of their salvation?

I read this thread yesterday, I have been thinking about it and I believe the Lord gave me this verse last night to share.

"The Lord is near to those who have a broken heart, And saves such as have a contrite spirit." (Psalm 34:18)

We have been saved by the Lord, He said He would save us if we believe in Him, if we have come to Him for mercy, it is in His nature to be merciful to us, there are no strings attached.

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)

I do not know the Lord's plan for me through this illness, He is the only sovereign Lord over all creation, I can never know His ultimate purpose for my life but what we all can know is that the Lord can not lie and that we can hold onto His word no matter what we face.

Two scriptures I go back to when my doubts are raging are these:

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out." (John 6:37)

If there ever was a truth to hold onto it is this one, He will not cast me out! He has said it so it must be true! Jesus said that He will never turn me away. If you have come to Him you will not be cast out, if you have not come to Him, but want too, you will not be cast out!

"And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." (Romans 8:28)

This verse is quoted a lot, but that does nothing to diminish its powerful truth. We may not understand why the Lord allows these things in our life but we can know that they will ultimately be for our eternal good. He has foreknown us in eternity (Romans 8:29) He has seen what we will become in the midst of our suffering and He has predestined us to be conformed to the image of His Son. He will work in us His will for our life and our sufferings that we have will be nothing compared to the glory that we shall behold in heaven with our Master and holy Saviour.

God bless you all in your sufferings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ffdbo9Hypo

 

[awell123]

I think we all need to realize what Salvation is... it is the acceptance of what Christ has done for us; not what we do or do not do for Him. I struggle as you do, but truth is what we need to believe over our fears or feelings. God Bless you.

 

[addie19]

I obviously don't know the circumstances of your divorce, but I'm 19, and my Mum (who is a Christian) divorced my Dad (who fell away) after years of trying to fix things. Now, she's read up a lot, and has many books about divorce and remarriage. Her divorce wasn't due to infidelity, but she had good grounds, and we both know that God still loves her..he loves the sinner, but not the sin. So even IF divorce was a sin, He would still love you, and you would still be welcome in His arms, as his daughter.There are many other good, biblical reasons for divorce other than infidelity..if you would like more info, I can ask my mum about it. I don't want to be nosey about your reasons, but I am always happy to be a listening ear.
God bless, and I pray you would see His love for you more clearly every day.
xxx

 

[GadFly]

It would be extremely unmerciful of God to send such poor people to hell, I think. Thank goodness I believe that there is NO hell. (1) People are a product of genes, programming and circumstances. As such, they don't really have a choice to choose who they will be. They are what life makes them to be. And therefore, I don't believe it would be merciful to send such people to hell.

Yes, of course, God has a right to do what He wants. I just don't think that He would do such unloving things since He claims to be love. If He is love and if it's the truth, then He will act lovingly. So whatever is not according to love, is not according to God. (2)And if people have doctrines contrary to that, then the problem is the doctrines, not God.

Hell idea did not originate in Christianity. In fact, in CAME INTO Christianity from pagan beliefs. In fact, PAUL, NEVER mentioned hell. I don't think he believed in it. He said that punishment for sins is death (not hell). But of course, people then have to twist it to make it fit preconceived ideas and then put ideas in Paul's mouth that he did not originate.

So God is merciful. It says that mercy triumphs over judgment. So whenever a doctrine teaches that it doesn't, there is something wrong with the doctrine (not God).

God is wise enough to know that people don't really have a choice (psychologists know that, but most people don't). So there is no hell. It was a made up idea. Therefore, those mentally ill people will not have to suffer for eternity. They might not get eternal life either (I don't know if it would be possible to make them ok again) but at least they wouldn't be suffering.

When we sow seeds, sometimes fruit grows up good and sometimes bad. We don't hate the bad fruit. We simply discard it because it's an unfortunate side effect. If we have a puppy that got infected with a mad decease, we don't punish the puppy, we get rid of it. When we have mental people, we don't punish them, we contain them to prevent them from harming others. If we do that, surely God is more wise and more merciful and will do the right thing by people....

This is a very good post and there are merits to much of the advice it offers. There are some misleading errors, however in this post. I do not mean to criticize what you say but pleas indulge me as I attempt to clarify a few things that will help everybody who suffers from mental anguish.

(1) One thing that stood out to me is that your ideas are too fatalistic. Scriptural psychology does teach that we are programmed as you say but this programming does not eliminate a choice of what one will be.
You say programming and circumstances determines what we will be. That is a false assumption. Computers are programmed but the information they turn out depends on the data we provide the computer. Change the data and you too change what you think. The circumstances is you environment or surroundings. God did programe you from the beginning of life with the seed to make you to have dominion or control of everything on earth. If you do not believe you can change things, then you do remove hope. Hopelessness seems to be a main factor of depression and desperation. We are not victims but we are conquers in Christ. We are programmed to be a overcomer. Give that up and you will be depressed and feel out of control.

(2) Mostlly, your post gives good ieas about doctrine and hell. There is only minor errors in you post that we can identify. I have darkened the main ideas about doctrine and hell.

And if people have doctrines contrary to that, then the problem is the doctrines, not God.

How true! Your ideas or logic is in error when your doctrine beliefs disturb you. As you point out, the only hell is death and death is eternal where one knows nothing, including former suffering. I believe that is biblical psychology but in the face of eternal death there is eternal life. Eternal life is what Christ offers. Doctrine id simply a way of thinking. Adjust what you think and you do become what you think just like you become what you eat. You examine your logic and you eliminate the fear of hell and you give yourself hope.

God is wise enough to know that people don't really have a choice (psychologists know that, but most people don't).

Psychologist would strongly disagree with this statement. You do have a choice. This is the psychological foundation of mental health. You do have a choice although it is very difficult at times but Christians can not forfeit choice or they can not accept Christ. People can chose a lifestyle and a behavior pattern. Most people who are depressed don't know they have a choice. When I was terribly depressed as a child. I made a choice to live and not die. I wanted so badly toget out of this world but I wanted to live more than I wanted to die. Today, I am so happy in Christ and I am no longer depressed. It can happen and the darkness does not last long if you walk in the light.There is more hope than despairing in life.