Goals for gender equality in a world where sexuality is sensibly free.

[cantata]

Steezie started a great thread about how we're growing towards a world in which our attitudes towards sexuality, and our sexual behaviours, are intelligently informed by the lessons of both ultimate sexual permissiveness in the '60s and '70s, and the sexually repressive backlash that followed it. We want a world where people can be sexually expressive without being exploited or exploitative; where they can enjoy many relationships on a sexual level without being at risk of emotional unrest, unwanted pregnancy, or disease.

For such a world to come about, it is, in my view, extremely important that some changes are made to attitudes towards gender equality with regards to sex. Here I'll try to explicate some issues and goals that I think we will need to address to end up with a situation in which people are able to enjoy their sexuality to its fullest extent, without causing harm to themselves or to others.

NB: I will speak mainly about women, because I prefer to remain within my area of expertise, but I want to say from the outset that I am sure men face myriad problems, and I don't intend to denigrate their experiences by omission. I simply know more about women's experience for obvious reasons. I'd be really interested to hear some men's thoughts about the issues I raise here, and also, since I'll talk primarily about heterosexual and lesbian partnerships, I'd be interested especially in hearing about gay men's experiences. Also, PLEASE NOTE: If you find anything in this post that you regard as overly explicit or obscene, please tell me in a post or PM me, and I will edit it accordingly. I do not intend to be offensive and I believe I have remained within the bounds of CF rules.

Gender roles in the realm of sexuality need to be seriously rethought. Clichéd as it is, the madonna/harlot complex is alive and well: women are torn between being the good girls their parents expect them to be, and the sexually assertive harlots (with suitable caveats to avoid threatening anyone's masculinity) that the beauty industry and mainstream pornography demand. Girls are consistently fed an ideal of romanticism through Disney films, girls' magazines and romantic comedies. I suspect that, as a result of the taboo against female masturbation, the first flushes of sexual arousal for many young girls are those that they experience with some other person, and this juxtaposition, combined with the romantic ideals that they have about sex, results in those sexual feelings being taken to be the signs of true love. Since boys are much more likely to have explored their genitals before ever coming into that sort of contact with a girl, they do not experience the same intertwining of sex and love, and this sets up a dichotomy between women's and men's sexual ideals. The result is that sexual relationships ensue in which boys are in it for the fun, and girls are expecting their Prince Charming - a first-time experience doomed to failure and heartache.

This is just my theory, with some help from Nancy Friday; but in any case, however the split between male and female expectations for sex comes about, it is certain that it is there and that it is responsible for a plethora of difficulties in relationships between men and women and their attitudes to sex. We need to grow towards a future where women are able to ask for what they want sexually, without a stab of guilt, and where no one thinks the less of them for doing so. We also need to find ourselves somewhere where men do not feel threatened by female sexual assertiveness, and where it is equally acceptable for men to be sexually submissive. It needs to be easier for women both to say, adamantly, 'No', and to say, enthusiastically, 'Yes'. It also needs to be easier for women to throw off guilt about sexual desire that is not associated with romanticism, if they are ever to be the sexual equals of men.

Women's sexuality needs to be further embraced and appreciated. Most pornography aimed at heterosexual men portrays women
as cheerfully willing to be degraded, universally intensely aroused by performing oral sex, and primarily and completely satisfied by penetrative sex. This is, of course, a gross misrepresentation of the sexual experience of most women. Even in lesbian pornography, women frequently tend to either take on the expected role of women in pornography of submissiveness and willingness to be degraded, or the expected male role, which results in a focus only on the obvious parts of each other's anatomy and bears no resemblance to most lesbians' experiences.

This view of female sexuality needs to change. Women need to be encouraged to explore and understand their own sexuality and their own desires, through discussion, masturbation, and discovery with their partners. Although it is important to be aware of the interaction between partners' sexual responses, female sexuality nevertheless also needs to be understood apart from male pleasure. Ultimately it would be lovely if this was reflected in pornography; there exists some lesbian pornography, usually made by and for women, which is very positive about female sexuality, but I believe that the majority of pornography, and heterosexual pornography in particular, is exploitative and degrading.

I will add here that I also recognise a misrepresentation of male sexuality in pornography. In my experience, men frequently do care about their partners, and they are often highly aroused by their partners' arousal. The portrayal of men as perpetually erect and grossly misogynistic is probably just as damaging to the perception of the ideal male sexuality as is the inaccurate portrayal of women in pornography.

ETA: It's become obvious that my meaning in this section is not clear enough. I am absolutely not trying either to suggest that pornography needs to be policed, or to discuss the influence of pornography on attitudes towards female sexuality. I raise pornography in the discussion at this point because I am interested in the ways in which our pornography reflects our attitudes.

We need to find ways of making it easier for women to protect themselves sexually. Many women's fear of being sexually assertive makes it considerably more difficult for them to demand that their partners use condoms. The romantic ideal that many women have of being 'swept away' by a man inhibits the frank discussion of sexual health and the development of a safe sex strategy between them and their partner. Many women's coyness and submissiveness about sex results in a blurring of the meaning of 'no', leading to situations where women feel pressured to do things with which they are not comfortable, and where men are unsure about their partners' actual desires.

Non-heterosexuality must make its way into the mainstream. It is my firm belief that pigeon-holes for sexual orientations are not especially helpful. I believe that sexuality is fluid, and I would like to see people more able to ethically experiment with their sexuality without risk of social repercussions. While it has become much easier in recent years for women to be openly bisexual, it is perhaps because of an underlying assumption that bisexual women are first and foremost interested in men, and also relies on their dalliances with other women being aesthetically appealing to men. As soon as a butched-up girl appears in the mix, suddenly what was a hot bi babe is now a man-hating dyke. It is even more difficult for men to be openly bisexual, and that needs to change too; although I haven't talked about it much here, I have no doubt that we are in need of a men's liberation which will allow men to go ahead and take on those traditionally more feminine traits, and that includes bi-curiosity.

~
​

These are just a few of my ideas. I would love to hear yours, and your criticisms and queries also (although, just to add, while I welcome any responses, I suspect we won't get very far if you reject my initial principle that freedom of sexual expression is something worth pursuing).

 

[Indicated]

Steezie started a great thread about how we're growing towards a world in which our attitudes towards sexuality, and our sexual behaviours, are intelligently informed by the lessons of both ultimate sexual permissiveness in the '60s and '70s, and the sexually repressive backlash that followed it. We want a world where people can be sexually expressive without being exploited or exploitative; where they can enjoy many relationships on a sexual level without being at risk of emotional unrest, unwanted pregnancy, or disease.

For such a world to come about, it is, in my view, extremely important that some changes are made to attitudes towards gender equality with regards to sex. Here I'll try to explicate some issues and goals that I think we will need to address to end up with a situation in which people are able to enjoy their sexuality to its fullest extent, without causing harm to themselves or to others.

NB: I will speak mainly about women, because I prefer to remain within my area of expertise, but I want to say from the outset that I am sure men face myriad problems, and I don't intend to denigrate their experiences by omission. I simply know more about women's experience for obvious reasons. I'd be really interested to hear some men's thoughts about the issues I raise here, and also, since I'll talk primarily about heterosexual and lesbian partnerships, I'd be interested especially in hearing about gay men's experiences. Also, PLEASE NOTE: If you find anything in this post that you regard as overly explicit or obscene, please tell me in a post or PM me, and I will edit it accordingly. I do not intend to be offensive and I believe I have remained within the bounds of CF rules.

Gender roles in the realm of sexuality need to be seriously rethought. Clichéd as it is, the madonna/harlot complex is alive and well: women are torn between being the good girls their parents expect them to be, and the sexually assertive harlots (with suitable caveats to avoid threatening anyone's masculinity) that the beauty industry and mainstream pornography demand. Girls are consistently fed an ideal of romanticism through Disney films, girls' magazines and romantic comedies. I suspect that, as a result of the taboo against female masturbation, the first flushes of sexual arousal for many young girls are those that they experience with some other person, and this juxtaposition, combined with the romantic ideals that they have about sex, results in those sexual feelings being taken to be the signs of true love. Since boys are much more likely to have explored their genitals before ever coming into that sort of contact with a girl, they do not experience the same intertwining of sex and love, and this sets up a dichotomy between women's and men's sexual ideals. The result is that sexual relationships ensue in which boys are in it for the fun, and girls are expecting their Prince Charming - a first-time experience doomed to failure and heartache.

This is just my theory, with some help from Nancy Friday; but in any case, however the split between male and female expectations for sex comes about, it is certain that it is there and that it is responsible for a plethora of difficulties in relationships between men and women and their attitudes to sex. We need to grow towards a future where women are able to ask for what they want sexually, without a stab of guilt, and where no one thinks the less of them for doing so. We also need to find ourselves somewhere where men do not feel threatened by female sexual assertiveness, and where it is equally acceptable for men to be sexually submissive. It needs to be easier for women both to say, adamantly, 'No', and to say, enthusiastically, 'Yes'. It also needs to be easier for women to throw off guilt about sexual desire that is not associated with romanticism, if they are ever to be the sexual equals of men.

Women's sexuality needs to be further embraced and appreciated. Most pornography aimed at heterosexual men portrays women
as cheerfully willing to be degraded, universally intensely aroused by performing oral sex, and primarily and completely satisfied by penetrative sex. This is, of course, a gross misrepresentation of the sexual experience of most women. Even in lesbian pornography, women frequently tend to either take on the expected role of women in pornography of submissiveness and willingness to be degraded, or the expected male role, which results in a focus only on the obvious parts of each other's anatomy and bears no resemblance to most lesbians' experiences.

This view of female sexuality needs to change. Women need to be encouraged to explore and understand their own sexuality and their own desires, through discussion, masturbation, and discovery with their partners. Although it is important to be aware of the interaction between partners' sexual responses, female sexuality nevertheless also needs to be understood apart from male pleasure. Ultimately it would be lovely if this was reflected in pornography; there exists some lesbian pornography, usually made by and for women, which is very positive about female sexuality, but I believe that the majority of pornography, and heterosexual pornography in particular, is exploitative and degrading.

I will add here that I also recognise a misrepresentation of male sexuality in pornography. In my experience, men frequently do care about their partners, and they are often highly aroused by their partners' arousal. The portrayal of men as perpetually erect and grossly misogynistic is probably just as damaging to the perception of the ideal male sexuality as is the inaccurate portrayal of women in pornography.

We need to find ways of making it easier for women to protect themselves sexually. Many women's fear of being sexually assertive makes it considerably more difficult for them to demand that their partners use condoms. The romantic ideal that many women have of being 'swept away' by a man inhibits the frank discussion of sexual health and the development of a safe sex strategy between them and their partner. Many women's coyness and submissiveness about sex results in a blurring of the meaning of 'no', leading to situations where women feel pressured to do things with which they are not comfortable, and where men are unsure about their partners' actual desires.

Non-heterosexuality must make its way into the mainstream. It is my firm belief that pigeon-holes for sexual orientations are not especially helpful. I believe that sexuality is fluid, and I would like to see people more able to ethically experiment with their sexuality without risk of social repercussions. While it has become much easier in recent years for women to be openly bisexual, it is perhaps because of an underlying assumption that bisexual women are first and foremost interested in men, and also relies on their dalliances with other women being aesthetically appealing to men. As soon as a butched-up girl appears in the mix, suddenly what was a hot bi babe is now a man-hating dyke. It is even more difficult for men to be openly bisexual, and that needs to change too; although I haven't talked about it much here, I have no doubt that we are in need of a men's liberation which will allow men to go ahead and take on those traditionally more feminine traits, and that includes bi-curiosity.

~
​

These are just a few of my ideas. I would love to hear yours, and your criticisms and queries also (although, just to add, while I welcome any responses, I suspect we won't get very far if you reject my initial principle that freedom of sexual expression is something worth pursuing).

I think you've got some great points here, keep it up

I've always had a pretty highly developed view toward sexuality, growing up in the Unitarian Universalist church and going through that sex ed program (called OWL, Our Whole Lives), which was the most comprehensive education towards sex I'd ever seen.

Public schools would shy away from such basic principles as teaching contraception and it's proper use and leaning more and more towards teaching abstinence (the shame of Sexperts everywhere, but more on that later). So having this environment where it was not only okay to talk about sex but it was encouraged. We learned about things they wouldn't dare to teach in public schools, transsexuality, outercourse, masturbation (male and female), prophylactics and the statistics on the success rate of said prophylactics.

All in all it was a tremendously valuable experience, as I would learn the true importance of my own sexuality in the following years.

Sex and sexuality are some of the biggest driving forces in us as people, and when a society becomes as detached from teaching sex as we have, it truly is one of the saddest things.

 

[Maxwell511]

Most pornography aimed at heterosexual men portrays women
as cheerfully willing to be degraded, universally intensely aroused by performing oral sex, and primarily and completely satisfied by penetrative sex. This is, of course, a gross misrepresentation of the sexual experience of most women. Even in lesbian pornography, women frequently tend to either take on the expected role of women in pornography of submissiveness and willingness to be degraded, or the expected male role, which results in a focus only on the obvious parts of each other's anatomy and bears no resemblance to most lesbians' experiences.

This view of female sexuality needs to change. Women need to be encouraged to explore and understand their own sexuality and their own desires, through discussion, masturbation, and discovery with their partners. Although it is important to be aware of the interaction between partners' sexual responses, female sexuality nevertheless also needs to be understood apart from male pleasure. Ultimately it would be lovely if this was reflected in pornography; there exists some lesbian pornography, usually made by and for women, which is very positive about female sexuality, but I believe that the majority of pornography, and heterosexual pornography in particular, is exploitative and degrading.

I will add here that I also recognise a misrepresentation of male sexuality in pornography. In my experience, men frequently do care about their partners, and they are often highly aroused by their partners' arousal. The portrayal of men as perpetually erect and grossly misogynistic is probably just as damaging to the perception of the ideal male sexuality as is the inaccurate portrayal of women in pornography.

Weird thing. In general men are "intensely aroused by performing oral sex" because "men frequently do care about their partners, and they are often highly aroused by their partners' arousal".
"
How is being aroused by performing oral sex on your "wife" (I say wife for the sake of the forums ) degrading?

Or is it only degrading for woman to engage in such activities?

Can "wifes" not be aroused by the arousal of their "husbands"?

 

[PassionFruit]

Insightful thread cantata.

You're right when you discuss the madonna/harlot complex is still very much alive. I have noticed this complex is apparent among women across ethnic groups, specifically for black women, we're either portrayed as being hyper sexual or asexual. Women are often put into these boxes, and while I used to attend middle school a girl could be called a [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] just for even talking about sex. A woman's sexuality is still very scary to people.

Most pornography aimed at heterosexual men portrays women
as cheerfully willing to be degraded, universally intensely aroused by performing oral sex, and primarily and completely satisfied by penetrative sex.

Yes, that's why when it comes to issues of pornography some feminists are anti-porn in this regard, because ultimately men are the primary consumers of porn, it is primarily aimed at men, and in the end men are the ones who are getting off on it. Mainstream pornography is in many ways heterocentric, however, there are sex positive feminists who believe that pornography can empowering, not the mainstream pornography but a type of feminist porn.

I would also agree that other sexual orientations have to be recognized as apart of human sexuality, because it is, sexuality is complex. I believe the reason why men aren't encouraged to be open about bi sexuality is because I feel there are issues of masculinity involved with that. Even though women are more sexually flexible it seems to be for the man's pleasure.

 

[Autumnleaf]

By mainstreaming homosexuality and confusing gender roles you will only push men into having sex with curvy robots in the not too distant future. You loosen the screws much more on morality and more and more women will come up with VD, both curable and uncurable. Who wants to risk having sex with a woman who has been around the block a few times and might want to get pregnant to get a paycheck from you.

Its ironic that by taking morality out of sex we embrace a more base activity and call it freedom when we really enslave ourselves to it. Its like alcohol. A little bit sometimes is good, a lot of it much of the time is no good.

 

[cantata]

Weird thing. In general men are "intensely aroused by performing oral sex" because "men frequently do care about their partners, and they are often highly aroused by their partners' arousal".
"
How is being aroused by performing oral sex on your "wife" (I say wife for the sake of the forums ) degrading?

It isn't. (In general? Are you sure? I'm afraid plenty of men express disgust at the idea of performing oral sex on a woman.)

Or is it only degrading for woman to engage in such activities?

Can "wifes" not be aroused by the arousal of their "husbands"?

It isn't. Of course they can. However, there are a few things to be said about this.

Firstly, what is degrading is the assumption that performing oral sex is the absolute peak of sexual fulfilment for 100% of women - which is how it is portrayed in a lot of pornography. While it's absolutely true that giving pleasure can be just as arousing as receiving it, the implication is that female pleasure depends on male pleasure, and that male pleasure can only be derived from direct physical stimulation - not from pleasing his partner. You will also notice that the pleasure the women are supposedly receiving from performing oral sex is usually apparently from the bare physical act of it, not because their partner is especially aroused by it. And meanwhile, oral sex performed on women receives, at best, a perfunctory nod in most mainstream pornography; men are not portrayed as being particularly excited by doing it; and I can tell you with a reasonable amount of certainty that the guys usually aren't doing it very well.

Secondly, I didn't want to go into too much detail above, but safe to say, the oral sex you will find in most mainstream heterosexual pornography is highly degrading - the woman is nearly always kneeling, and at the risk of being explicit, I shall say that the movements of the man make it extremely clear that the woman is being used as little more than a tool for masturbation. That of course may bear no resemblance to many people's experience of oral sex, but I'm trying to talk about the role and portrayal of oral sex in pornography rather than the act in general. And I believe that the way it is portrayed is exploitative and gives a very false impression of the actual enjoyment that most women can experience when performing oral sex on a man.

Thirdly, you must remember that we live in a fundamentally gender biased world. In a world where the focus has been, for centuries, predominantly on masculine sexuality, it almost doesn't matter how female-to-male oral sex is portrayed in pornography - it will always have undertones of exploitation. It is perfectly possible for two consenting adults to engage in all sorts of activities together and not to exploit one another in the slightest, but when it moves to pornography it becomes inherently exploitative because of the history of the treatment of women and the effects, I might add, on the attitudes of the people watching.

 

[gengwall]

I always like the way you think, cantata, even if I often disagree with your conclusions. I have little to say in this thread other than the utopia you desire actually exists right now in real life. It exists in the healthy, monogamous, intermarital, heterosexual, "saved it until marriage" relationships of many, many couples. So, in one respect, I'm glad to see you are catching up to what many of us have experienced all along (or at least discovered along the way).

 

[stan1980]

It exists in the healthy, monogamous, intermarital, heterosexual, "saved it until marriage" relationships of many, many couples. So, in one respect, I'm glad to see you are catching up to what many of us have experienced all along (or at least discovered along the way).

Yeah, but that's a bit boring though isn't it?

I haven't really got much to say in this thread, mainly because I'm quite comfortable in the way I see sex, but I do look forward to reading a "proper" response to your point.

 

[PassionFruit]

I always like the way you think, cantata, even if I often disagree with your conclusions. I have little to say in this thread other than the utopia you desire actually exists right now in real life. It exists in the healthy, monogamous, intermarital, heterosexual, "saved it until marriage" relationships of many, many couples. So, in one respect, I'm glad to see you are catching up to what many of us have experienced all along (or at least discovered along the way).

I don't know if people who wait until their marriage to have sex will be guaranteed to have fulfilling sex life, maybe some couples will. When you say intermarital relationships does that include people lesbians/gays/bisexuals?

 

[gengwall]

I don't know if people who wait until their marriage to have sex will be guaranteed to have fulfilling sex life, maybe some couples will. When you say intermarital relationships does that include people lesbians/gays/bisexuals?

Of course, nothing is guaranteed.

What do I mean by intermarital? Hmmmm. In the context of this thread, intermarital would mean anybody who is married in the civil sense. I have no problem if cantata would include GLBT in the "married" group; it's her thread after all. But I was speaking specifically of monagamous, heterosexual marriages. As a subgroup, I believe, (in fact, I know), there are many such marriages which enjoy the gender equality cantata dreams of, even though they may not be as "free" to pursue sex outside of marriage as some may think necessary for sex to be liberating and exciting.

 

[PassionFruit]

Of course, nothing is guaranteed.

What do I mean by intermarital? Hmmmm. In the context of this thread, intermarital would mean anybody who is married in the civil sense. I have no problem if cantata would include GLBT in the "married" group; it's her thread after all. But I was speaking specifically of monagamous, heterosexual marriages. As a subgroup, I believe, (in fact, I know), there are many such marriages which enjoy the gender equality cantata dreams of, even though they may not be as "free" to pursue sex outside of marriage as some may think necessary for sex to be liberating and exciting.

I see now.

Yeah, but that's a bit boring though isn't it?

Does it have to be boring if it's just a monogamous relationship? What would constitute excitement in your opinion?

 

[Merlin]

Women and men are inherently different, like apples and telephones.
It is a disservice to both to try to equate them.

 

[Merlin]

Pornography is about what sells.
it's not about reality.

 

[stan1980]

Does it have to be boring if it's just a monogamous relationship? What would constitute excitement in your opinion?

Well I can certainly tell you what wouldn't be appealing for me; that would be getting married and having to sleep with the same person for the rest of my life. I couldn't see that working for me, and I could see some serious problems arising, such as boredom with sleeping with the same person, wanting to go elsewhere, resulting in divorce and big hole in my wallet.

 

[Merlin]

Orally based stimulation is an individual thing.
You generalise too broadly.

 

[stan1980]

Pornography is about what sells.
it's not about reality.

Precisely, trying to change the pornography business seems futile to me. You can either ban it completely (which with the advent of the internet would be very difficult) or let market forces dictate the product.

 

[WatersMoon110]

Well I can certainly tell you what wouldn't be appealing for me; that would be getting married and having to sleep with the same person for the rest of my life. I couldn't see that working for me, and I could see some serious problems arising, such as boredom with sleeping with the same person, wanting to go elsewhere, resulting in divorce and big hole in my wallet.

There are more options than just divorce, if one is bored with one's monogamous sex life. Swinging, if both partners are into it; role playing (not D&D type); toys...there are many ways to "spice up" a boring sex life. (Though I still say that is one finds sex with only one person "boring" one isn't doing it right. *wink*)

Personally, I would try all of those if my husband was "bored" with sleeping with only me after many years of marriage. Though, I certainly hope that doesn't happen!

 

[Maxwell511]

It isn't. (In general? Are you sure? I'm afraid plenty of men express disgust at the idea of performing oral sex on a woman.)

Some do express disgust. Most don't. At least this is what I get from my discussions with my mates on the subject.

Also stuff like this:

Men's preference for performing oral sex on women is growing. About 80% of men engage in the practice, and only 3% of those find it "boring or unpleasant." In answer to "What would you like to do more often?" the top two male choices were different sexual positions, and oral sex. which the authors call "the most rapidly growing turn-on in America."

I am pretty sure 80% can be considered in general.

It isn't. Of course they can. However, there are a few things to be said about this.

Firstly, what is degrading is the assumption that performing oral sex is the absolute peak of sexual fulfilment for 100% of women - which is how it is portrayed in a lot of pornography. While it's absolutely true that giving pleasure can be just as arousing as receiving it, the implication is that female pleasure depends on male pleasure, and that male pleasure can only be derived from direct physical stimulation - not from pleasing his partner. You will also notice that the pleasure the women are supposedly receiving from performing oral sex is usually apparently from the bare physical act of it, not because their partner is especially aroused by it. And meanwhile, oral sex performed on women receives, at best, a perfunctory nod in most mainstream pornography; men are not portrayed as being particularly excited by doing it; and I can tell you with a reasonable amount of certainty that the guys usually aren't doing it very well.

Pornography is at its core entertainment you cannot take it as a true reflection of reality. Like all entertainment it uses gross caricatures to create a certain response from the audience.

To say that such caricatures are degrading is to me implying that men are slightly stupid and unable to tell fiction from truth. I am pretty sure that we can get that.

Secondly, I didn't want to go into too much detail above, but safe to say, the oral sex you will find in most mainstream heterosexual pornography is highly degrading - the woman is nearly always kneeling, and at the risk of being explicit, I shall say that the movements of the man make it extremely clear that the woman is being used as little more than a tool for masturbation. That of course may bear no resemblance to many people's experience of oral sex, but I'm trying to talk about the role and portrayal of oral sex in pornography rather than the act in general. And I believe that the way it is portrayed is exploitative and gives a very false impression of the actual enjoyment that most women can experience when performing oral sex on a man.

Of course it gives a "false" impression, it is not real.

Thirdly, you must remember that we live in a fundamentally gender biased world. In a world where the focus has been, for centuries, predominantly on masculine sexuality, it almost doesn't matter how female-to-male oral sex is portrayed in pornography - it will always have undertones of exploitation. It is perfectly possible for two consenting adults to engage in all sorts of activities together and not to exploit one another in the slightest, but when it moves to pornography it becomes inherently exploitative because of the history of the treatment of women and the effects, I might add, on the attitudes of the people watching.

So you do think that it is degrading for a women to perform an action on a man, no matter how it is portrayed, but not when a man performs a similar action on a women, at least in a sort of public arena. How is that equality?

You are, at least it seems to me, saying that some actions are okay for one sex but not the other. Does this extend beyond sexual acts or is it just with sex?

 

[stan1980]

There are more options than just divorce, if one is bored with one's monogamous sex life. Swinging, if both partners are into it; role playing (not D&D type); toys...there are many ways to "spice up" a boring sex life. (Though I still say that is one finds sex with only one person "boring" one isn't doing it right. *wink*)

Personally, I would try all of those if my husband was "bored" with sleeping with only me after many years of marriage. Though, I certainly hope that doesn't happen!

Yeah, sure, but if your sex life has already started really hot (which, of course, is inevitable when I'm involved), then a few years down the line there aren't going to be too many ways to spice things up, are there?

 

[Merlin]

Yeah, sure, but if your sex life has already started really hot (which, of course, is inevitable when I'm involved), then a few years down the line there aren't going to be too many ways to spice things up, are there?

Just as another person may spice things up, the original person can spice things up.