gnostic people

[sabin]

could you tell me about this gnostic thing, is it true they had some sort of teachings or text that were discarded or burnt year's ago? i just wondered if you were abit curious about if they were on to some sort of hidden truth. i understand the church did not like these people, im not sure why as they seem to know few thing's about jesus. would it be safe to say the gnostic people had mixed ideas and beliefs and their 'texts' did not match or resonate with the texts in the bible?

 

[Danielwright2311]

To be honest, I think its all a set up lie, I belive finding books written at the same time of the true gospels is a lie and the books they found where a fraud.

 

[sabin]

thanks, it just came up on my research, it's like the closer i get there's always something popping up for me to explore lol it's like it would take years of study to master the story. some people on here do bible verses in replies but it's like they do it like 2nd nature and remember the verses well, i still gotta get up to that level yet.

 

[jacknife]

could you tell me about this gnostic thing, is it true they had some sort of teachings or text that were discarded or burnt year's ago? i just wondered if you were abit curious about if they were on to some sort of hidden truth. i understand the church did not like these people, im not sure why as they seem to know few thing's about jesus. would it be safe to say the gnostic people had mixed ideas and beliefs and their 'texts' did not match or resonate with the texts in the bible?

Christianity and world religion subfourm might be a better place, if your interested a reddit section on gnosticism might be a good place to get some book recommendations. It's how I learned more about shintoism.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

could you tell me about this gnostic thing, is it true they had some sort of teachings or text that were discarded or burnt year's ago? i just wondered if you were abit curious about if they were on to some sort of hidden truth. i understand the church did not like these people, im not sure why as they seem to know few thing's about jesus. would it be safe to say the gnostic people had mixed ideas and beliefs and their 'texts' did not match or resonate with the texts in the bible?

The Gnostics texts date significantly, later than the received Gospels and other texts that are found in the Bible (By a good 100 years or more).

The Gnostics taught doctrine that was at odds with that of the orthodox mainstream. I'm talking about stuff like that the World was created by an inferior god, that is different than the God of the New Testament. That salvation is a matter of enlightenment, that allows you to escape the created material world (and not be reincarnated again) rather than Christian ideas about the after life (no reincarnation, but heaven and hell). The Gnostics by and large were not concerned by Sin as far as salvation goes. but saw things purely based on ignorance and enlightenment.


If you are really interested in what professing modern Gnostics have to say, there are plenty of videos on You-tube by Ecclesia Gnostica, and Gnostic Bishop Stephan Hoeller. Check out this link if you are.


As We Have Descended, So We Must Ascend: The Gnostic Perspective on Personal Ascension, with Stephan A. Hoeller (Tau Stephanus, Gnostic Bishop)

 

[Kaon]

Back centuries ago, schools of thought broke people up into Gnostics (meaning knowledge) and Agnostic (meaning without knowlwdge). The "gnostics" became threatening to religious institution in the same way the disciples and Redeemer were a threat to religious institution.

Remember the bible as we know it is a canonical text - a collections of books chosen by church authority, as it were. No matter what you are looking for, you should always ask the Most High God for guidance and wisdom.

 

[sabin]

would it be ok to say gnostic people were abit like the new age people of today and that's why they seemed 'threatening' to the church. it's just strange that the church apparently burnt loads of these texts, it almost seems as if they were trying to hide something almost like a cover up. i think back in those days people were really brutal against other it's crazy.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

could you tell me about this gnostic thing, is it true they had some sort of teachings or text that were discarded or burnt year's ago? i just wondered if you were abit curious about if they were on to some sort of hidden truth. i understand the church did not like these people, im not sure why as they seem to know few thing's about jesus. would it be safe to say the gnostic people had mixed ideas and beliefs and their 'texts' did not match or resonate with the texts in the bible?

The #1 reason that the Gnostic teaching was rejected was that it taught Jesus Christ was not physically, literally, and bodily resurrected from the Dead. They taught that His SPIRIT remained living, but that His Body remained dead and decayed into the earth. This is denying the True Gospel of God and the Testimony of all the eye witnesses and the Scriptures. Jesus physically raised the dead body of Lazuras, and the same Spirit raised the physical, literal body of Jesus Christ from the grave.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

would it be ok to say gnostic people were abit like the new age people of today and that's why they seemed 'threatening' to the church. it

Yes there are many aspects of them that are like that.

it almost seems as if they were trying to hide something almost like a cover up. i think back in those days people were really brutal against other it's crazy.

Well if you are talking about Nag Hammadi, I got something to say about that since I am member of the Coptic Church and that place is/was a Coptic site. The Church burned those texts because they were teaching false doctrine. As far as the conspiracy angle trope that Gnostics and other like to use I will have to frame things in terms of embezzlement, and waste, fraud and abuse. Unlike today, it was very expensive to publish materials. Vellum and other materials were very pricey, where even buying a small scroll would be like buying some kind of luxury item that cost thousands of dollars. Anyway, while the Gnostics likely had a few rich patrons to finance their writings, texts like those founded at Nag Hammadi were almost certainly coming from Coptic Church financed Scriptorums that were paid by the Coptic Church Faithful... which adds insults to injury because Church Funds and materials should not be used to spread doctrine that the Church itself opposes!

 

[HTacianas]

could you tell me about this gnostic thing, is it true they had some sort of teachings or text that were discarded or burnt year's ago? i just wondered if you were abit curious about if they were on to some sort of hidden truth. i understand the church did not like these people, im not sure why as they seem to know few thing's about jesus. would it be safe to say the gnostic people had mixed ideas and beliefs and their 'texts' did not match or resonate with the texts in the bible?

The gnostics were a group of sects with no defined consistency of beliefs. The term "gnostic" comes from "gnosis", meaning knowledge. They generally held that their initiates were given "secret knowledge" on joining their group but there is no account of just what that knowledge was. Paul condemned the idea in his letter to Timothy:

1Ti 6:20 - O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane andidle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge—

The new testament contains any number of blunt refutations of the gnostics, even labeling them antichrist for some of their beliefs.

 

[sabin]

i find this really fascinating, i mean if you you listen to a free thinker talk about it they seem to think it's a 'what they dont want you to know' sort of a hidden truth thing, but if you hear the christian view it's a different story.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

i find this really fascinating, i mean if you you listen to a free thinker talk about it they seem to think it's a 'what they dont want you to know' sort of a hidden truth thing, but if you hear the christian view it's a different story.

The problem with the free thinkers is they may know a few things about the subject, but many haven't really studied the classical history that in depth.

Here's something you normally wouldn't hear about on Gnosticism from them, "The Deep Things of Satan" as far as the Antinominan version of it. Well if you would it would be spun in purely positive terms, rather than those folks might be doing something seriously wrong, even criminally wrong.


https://www.esolibris.com/articles/gnosticism/antinomian_antics.php

 

[zephcom]

would it be ok to say gnostic people were abit like the new age people of today and that's why they seemed 'threatening' to the church. it's just strange that the church apparently burnt loads of these texts, it almost seems as if they were trying to hide something almost like a cover up. i think back in those days people were really brutal against other it's crazy.

Christianity, as a religion, has a long history of intolerance to any spiritual teaching which conflicts with their 'orthodox' teachings. That in intolerance ranges from belittling others who believe differently to book burnings to murder and even genocide.

Wait until you get to the Cathars and their experience with Christianity.

 

[Kaon]

would it be ok to say gnostic people were abit like the new age people of today and that's why they seemed 'threatening' to the church. it's just strange that the church apparently burnt loads of these texts, it almost seems as if they were trying to hide something almost like a cover up. i think back in those days people were really brutal against other it's crazy.

I am not going to comment on the authenticity of all the text; most people think Paul is telling us we can renege on God's commandments - and many of his books are canonical. It isnt the text, it is the heart of the individual.

Why does anyone burn books, texts and records?

Now, remember also the institution of the Hebrew "religion" was already degenerate before Christ came, and according to Revelation only 1/7 contemporary churches got it right. Institution cannot teach truth, or love. The Redeemer is the Truth, and by the New Covenant, the MOST HIGH God puts the law on His people's heart so much so that we don't need to be taught about Him. That is The reality of the new covenant - not lawlessness and ambience of grace without faith in work.

 

[sabin]

noticed they way the church were abit negative back in those dark ages, it's like today they aren't so bad but maybe a few odd cases pop in the news or online.
this reminds me of a conversation i had with a pagan friend about 2006, she was fuming saying she hates christianity for the centuries of lies, murder and theft. it's like they are in defensive mode thinking of their ancestors. i often look out of the window and think if i was a christian how could i explain this for im sure ill get this rubbed in my face lol the past isn't so nice yeah.

 

[zephcom]

noticed they way the church were abit negative back in those dark ages, it's like today they aren't so bad but maybe a few odd cases pop in the news or online.
this reminds me of a conversation i had with a pagan friend about 2006, she was fuming saying she hates christianity for the centuries of lies, murder and theft. it's like they are in defensive mode thinking of their ancestors. i often look out of the window and think if i was a christian how could i explain this for im sure ill get this rubbed in my face lol the past isn't so nice yeah.

I think the issue can not be dismissed by simply noting that was in the past. Unless one can point to a fundamental change within the Church itself which changed the internal understanding of the religion and its tendency to use any means available to achieve superiority, one can't just pass off its history as not being germane today.

I suggest that secular law is what keeps the religion in check today and not any change within itself which provides for a measure of self-control. We see evidence of that lack of self-control throughout the religion regularly in our current events. I don't see any reason to think that the modern religion would be any less violent than the historical religion if modern secular law ceased to exist.

That is troublesome to me.

 

[Kaon]

noticed they way the church were abit negative back in those dark ages, it's like today they aren't so bad but maybe a few odd cases pop in the news or online.
this reminds me of a conversation i had with a pagan friend about 2006, she was fuming saying she hates christianity for the centuries of lies, murder and theft. it's like they are in defensive mode thinking of their ancestors. i often look out of the window and think if i was a christian how could i explain this for im sure ill get this rubbed in my face lol the past isn't so nice yeah.

Nothing has changed; cases are just swept under the rug, and since most humans believe ignorance is logic, and logic is paramount to a thinking mind (when it is really a handicap), they will always be swindled by those entities that created the very paradigm they hold on to.

The relationship with the Most High God is a unique one void of worldly matters. So many people claim His name without even trying to reflect His principles and statutes. The Most High God never wanted religion, and He certainly didn't want hundreds of different divisions of the same "truth". The main (and arguably most influentially detrimental) thing the Church strays away from is that

No man is greater than the Word of God Himself - The Living Entitiy that redeemed the people of the Most High God. So, you must always test things against what He said.

Lots of people trust dogma that is enticing, but when compared to the Word of God Himself, the dogma fails. But, people still hold on to it because of who they chose as their leader, and what they consider the word of god. You should be able to reject anything any prophet or disciple says if it contradicts the Word of God Himself. But, that requires being honest about the Word of God Himself.


The entire "religious" thing is a predatory relationship between false god's and their loyalists, loyalists and the laity they control. A real spiritual relationship with the Father is abundance, so there is no need to "get money" and maintain power: the priority is love, not competition and dominance. The triviality of this world has always snared men - great and small.

 

[FireDragon76]

The Gnostics texts date significantly, later than the received Gospels and other texts that are found in the Bible (By a good 100 years or more).

The Gnostics taught doctrine that was at odds with that of the orthodox mainstream. I'm talking about stuff like that the World was created by an inferior god, that is different than the God of the New Testament. That salvation is a matter of enlightenment, that allows you to escape the created material world (and not be reincarnated again) rather than Christian ideas about the after life (no reincarnation, but heaven and hell). The Gnostics by and large were not concerned by Sin as far as salvation goes. but saw things purely based on ignorance and enlightenment.


If you are really interested in what professing modern Gnostics have to say, there are plenty of videos on You-tube by Ecclesia Gnostica, and Gnostic Bishop Stephan Hoeller. Check out this link if you are.


As We Have Descended, So We Must Ascend: The Gnostic Perspective on Personal Ascension, with Stephan A. Hoeller (Tau Stephanus, Gnostic Bishop)

From what I read, gnosticism was really a pre-Christian religion that adopted elements of Christianity. It was really a counterpoint or perversion of "orthodox" Neo-Platonism combined with mystery religions.

 

[FireDragon76]

The gnostics were a group of sects with no defined consistency of beliefs. The term "gnostic" comes from "gnosis", meaning knowledge. They generally held that their initiates were given "secret knowledge" on joining their group but there is no account of just what that knowledge was. Paul condemned the idea in his letter to Timothy:

1Ti 6:20 - O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane andidle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge—

The new testament contains any number of blunt refutations of the gnostics, even labeling them antichrist for some of their beliefs.

Christianity was considered a new cult by most of society at the time, we shouldn't forget that. That means in alot of peoples minds back then, it mingled easily with the prevailing eastern cults and new religions, so it's not surprising that Gnosticism was a thing the early Church had to deal with. It's sort of like how today among New Agers there's a great deal of intermingling of beliefs from very different sources.

 

[sabin]

i have friends who are active in the new age, i still feel they are abit lost or isolated and searching for something but not found it. it does seem the enlightening ascension process thing is harder than you think, i saw one of my friend's mention about increased anxiety and she felt alienated in the world, im not sure this is of the light lol seems like it's destroying people in the long run. at times i wonder if they changed the focus, by using the connection to connect with god, surely that's not a sin? technically speaking it's like meditation to connect to jesus, i think that would be more positive than just meditation to connect to any alien races or spirits for hidden truth's.