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The only thing I have rejected is opinions from sources (blogs & media) who have no background in science, especially climate science. Also, I asked for two things. (1) Cite one of the 97% consensus papers and show where the science is wrong in it. (2) Show what science is being ignored by the 97%.
First, that was a GAO review providing suggestions for improving weather station data. It changes nothing.I've already done your second request which also fulfills your first request. One more time:
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11800.pdf
First, that was a GAO review providing suggestions for improving weather station data. It changes nothing.
Remember the article in the Daily Mail that made a number of erroneous claims concerning NOAA, especially those concerning throwing out data? Well, that's the type of data they excluded, the heat island effect, and stations that reported temps at varying daily times. If you wish to discuss problems concerning global temperature acquisitions and reporting, satellite data is at the top of the list.That made no sense at all. If a statoin is positioned next to a source of artificial heat such as a burn barrel, or next to an air conditioner that blows hot air towards it from the outside, or at an airport where jet exhaust can hit it, then it's not accurately measuring the earth's temperature. Also, putting it on blacktop where the sun's heat is more absorbed and is radiated into the temperature monitoring station doesn't accurately measure the earth's temperature.
The problem some HAVE shown the science to be wrong or at least non settled. What do you often hear about these folks? They are called climate deniers or not real scientists or whatever and are summarily dismissed. A few have even lost positions they held because of it. So yeah, it's toe the line or shut up or be called names and or have your name drug through the mud. Seems like a good way to get good data and information to me.Once again, look at the science published in peer review literature, and show where that science is wrong. I am not interested in opinions from blogs and the media, especially when they don't even come from actual scientists, much less climate scientists.
Actually that is completely false. Data is data. How you collect the data can make a difference.How you interpret the data is something else entirely. Often the interpretation is where it's faulty because it's based upon preconceived ideas.No. Science is empirical. Either the data support the claim or it doesn't.
There aren't a handful regardless of what you believe. See? If you believe your own statement, I wonder how you can actually believe in something like AGW.No they aren't. There are a handful of earth scientists who are deniers or contrarians, but the vast majority of them are not even scientists.
The law is empirical, as well. Either something is wrong or it's right. No two ways about it. Yet lawyers all the time try to get their guilty clients off on some interpretation of the law. Same with scientists.No. Science is empirical. Either the data support the claim or it doesn't.
I won't say nobody, but I'm not disputing the measurements that have been taken, even a little bit. What I dispute is the conclusions drawn from them, especially that Mankind caused it, and that it will lead to global catastrophe.With all due respect, that does not address what was quoted. Once again:
"Look at the science published in peer review literature, and show where that science is wrong. I am not interested in opinions from blogs and the media, especially when they don't even come from actual scientists, much less climate scientists."
I agree with you. I'm not interested in opinions and conclusions, even from those 'climatologists'. In fact, I don't even see where you can say when climatology became a science. But you know what? Even if it is, so is meteorology a science in which practitioners of said science look at data and try to give a forecast, and much of the time are wrong about said forecast. So it is possible for scientists to take data, interpret data, and be completely wrong.No, what I am not interested in is opinions from non professional sources, nor professionals whose profession is not climatology. My opinions are based on what actual practicing climatologists have published from their research, in the appropriate professional literature. It is also based on my academic background and professional experience which allows me to review that literature from a professional point of view and understanding.
What has that got to do with global warming?Here's the bottom line, at least for me:
Either you believe God is all-powerful, or you don't.
If you believe God is all-powerful, then you must believe that there is nothing mankind can do to subvert the will of God.
Also, if God is omniscient, you know that he fore-knew what the universe looked like when he created it, he fore-knew what man would do, and like a child, he led Man to where we are today. And, we don't have the kind of power, even as a race of 7 billion strong, to do anything to destroy God's will.
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The conclusions are straight forward. There is a difference in the ratio of 13C/12C between produced by the natural carbon cycle and that of the consumption of fossil fuels. That ratio reflects measurements showing an increase beginning with the industrial revolution to present to account for the atmospheric content increase of CO2. It is straight forward chemistry.I won't say nobody, but I'm not disputing the measurements that have been taken, even a little bit. What I dispute is the conclusions drawn from them, especially that Mankind caused it, and that it will lead to global catastrophe.
Meteorology and climatology are two completely different sciences. Meteorology deals with short term day to day weather, where climatology is long term climate conditions based on trends 30 years and longer. I have been stressing the scientific literature rather than blogs and media because the majority of my professional background and experience is in science. I have an M.S. in Earth Science from the Univ. of Memphis (1977), which encompasses Geology, Oceanography, and Climatology. My concentration and major research area was in Paleoclimatology. I spent nearly 30 years as a research chemist, in which part of my work involved the effect on polymers due to Solar Irradiation on a long term basis.I agree with you. I'm not interested in opinions and conclusions, even from those 'climatologists'. In fact, I don't even see where you can say when climatology became a science. But you know what? Even if it is, so is meteorology a science in which practitioners of said science look at data and try to give a forecast, and much of the time are wrong about said forecast.
I guess you didn't read the original post...but we've gone way off the rails by now.What has that got to do with global warming?
Maybe so, but that doesn't explain how it affects the planet. That's the conclusions I'm talking about.The conclusions are straight forward. There is a difference in the ratio of 13C/12C between produced by the natural carbon cycle and that of the consumption of fossil fuels. That ratio reflects measurements showing an increase beginning with the industrial revolution to present to account for the atmospheric content increase of CO2. It is straight forward chemistry.
Yes, MEteorology and Climatology are two completely different scientists, but they are conflated quite a bit. They say that the number of hurricanes, a meteorological event, is caused by AGW, that the Polar Vortex, a meteorological event, is caused by AGW, and so on. Can you tell me when Climatology became a science? I can't seem to find that it is, even, a real science.Meteorology and climatology are two completely different sciences. Meteorology deals with short term day to day weather, where climatology is long term climate conditions based on trends 30 years and longer. I have been stressing the scientific literature rather than blogs and media because the majority of my professional background and experience is in science. I have an M.S. in Earth Science from the Univ. of Memphis (1977), which encompasses Geology, Oceanography, and Climatology. My concentration and major research area was in Paleoclimatology. I spent nearly 30 years as a research chemist, in which part of my work involved the effect on polymers due to Solar Irradiation on a long term basis.
So, are you suggesting that CO2 is not what is causing the warming? If so, may I ask what the current warming should be attributed to?Maybe so, but that doesn't explain how it affects the planet. That's the conclusions I'm talking about.
Warming, whether AGW or non-on AGW, causes more frequent extreme meteorological events. What is being seen in recorded data since the beginning of the industrial revolution and paleo-data prior to that, is a rate of warming exceeding significantly any previous paleoclimate record, that is what the concern is with those events. There is quite a bit of published research demonstrating this, let me know if you would links to some of those papers for your review.Yes, MEteorology and Climatology are two completely different scientists, but they are conflated quite a bit. They say that the number of hurricanes, a meteorological event, is caused by AGW, that the Polar Vortex, a meteorological event, is caused by AGW, and so on.
As a recognized modern science I'm not sure where to pin a date on it. Svante Arrhenius, published major research in 1896 on the effects of CO2, coming up with the first climate sensitivity with respect to CO2. Climate sensitivity with respect to CO2 is what would be expected for global average temperature to increase due to the doubling of atmospheric CO2 concentration. Considering the science in general at that time his estimate was quite remarkable, 2 - 6 deg C for a doubling. Current science has that figure at 3 - 3.5 deg. C. Guy Callender in 1938, recognizing concerns for artificially produced carbon dioxide. Norman Phillips begin working with climate models in 1956, and there is much much more concerning climate change and its causes well before it became the political issue it is today. As a person who became quite familiar with the science back in the 1970s, it is quite troubling for me to see so many non-professional sources demeaning climate scientists and presenting misleading and misrepresented information, not intended for the scientific community, but the non-science public.Can you tell me when Climatology became a science? I can't seem to find that it is, even, a real science.
I don't find the notion of a widespread flood "impossible".
But I would guess that those who don't understand the Flood to have covered the whole world as we know it today interpret that story as best they can and they interpret the evidence for AGW according to their understanding.
And they're not the same thing anyway. One is described as an event that God 'directly' caused, the other is a set of expectations based on observations. Further, a rise in sea levels, no matter how catastrophic, is not the same as the entire world being 100% covered by water, if that is indeed what you mean by "a real world-wide flood event".
I've never heard this before. How did you know this about the depths?also the world has changed since the flood. To subside the waters, God made the oceans deeper for the waters to recede into. There isn't enough water to cover the Earth like in the movie WaterWorld
I've never heard this before. How did you know this about the depths?
What do you mean?I've never heard this before. How did you know this about the depths?
It is called "constructive guesswork".
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