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Global Warming & Earth’s Global Temperature Measurement

Oct 15, 2012
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..snipped usual nonsense...

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Heissonear, maybe you can answer the question that was actually asked since you seem to agree with it:
Heissonear: Please list the data that was purposely adjusted to produce a warming trend ("their conclusions").
An answer is that that statement was wrong - no data was purposely adjusted to produce a warming trend.
What really happened is that raw data from instruments that changed was adjusted to fix errors introduced by those changes.


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Oct 15, 2012
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Yeah, cause quoting denialist echo-chambers is science!

Wake me up when you stop being so cliché?
Yes - those links that andypro7 listed look like ignorant bloggers linking to the blogs of totally ignorant bloggers !

These are the widely known (especially to climate scientists) and well published techniques to get the best data possible out of the noisy weather station data and we see these climate change deniers call the science "fabricated".
 
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For people interested in the science (not you andypro7 or Heissonear ), Skeptical Science is running a good series of posts about the instrumental record:
Understanding adjustments to temperature data
Understanding Time of Observation Bias

The Berkley Earth project (started by actual climate change skeptics!) was designed to test whether the existing methods of minimizing errors in data were correct by coming up with a new methodology and automating it so that accusations of human bias would be removed.
Berkeley Earth: raw versus adjusted temperature data

Another Berkley Earth related blog entry: Just the facts, homogenization adjustments reduce global warming
And the combined effect of the adjustment is to lessen (cool) the trend!
 
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andypro7

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Yep, those right-wing looney climate office researchers publishing to their denialist Geophysical Research Letters are really, really stupid. Not as smart as you fellas, huh?

MISSOULA – In a recent study, University of Montana and Montana Climate Office researcher Jared Oyler found that while the western U.S. has warmed, recently observed warming in the mountains of the western U.S. likely is not as large as previously supposed.
His results, published Jan. 9 in the journal Geophysical Research Letters, show that sensor changes have significantly biased temperature observations from the Snowpack Telemetry (SNOTEL) station network
 
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Wow - you need to read what you quote, andypro7.
This is a researcher confirming the need to adjust weather station records to account for sensor changes to produce more accurate data ! Climate scientists have been doing this for many decades.
Artificial amplification of warming trends across the mountains of the western United States by Jared W. Oyler, Solomon Z. Dobrowski, Ashley P. Ballantyne, Anna E. Klene, Steven W. Running.

N.B. This is that higher elevations are warming faster than lower elevations in the mountainous western U.S. is largely due to sensor changes. The local area is affected but the influence on global temperatures is unknown.
 
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andypro7

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Hey man, thanks for posting this. Finally something we can agree upon.

Man, did you screw the pooch on this one:

This is a researcher confirming the need to adjust weather station records to account for sensor changes to produce more accurate data!Climate scientists have been doing this for many decades.
No, what he is saying is that the models they are using to adjust weather station records are now, and have been for decades, WAY off, and the bias is towards warming.

Here we critically evaluate this network's temperature observations and show that extreme warming observed at higher elevations is the result of systematic artifacts and not climatic condition

NOT the result of climatic condition, unlike what all the models show

With artifacts removed, the network's 1991–2012 minimum temperature trend decreases from +1.16°C decade−1 to +0.106°C decade

They OVERHYPED the warming by a FULL DEGREE in just 21 years.

Moreover, longer-term widely used gridded climate products propagate the spurious temperature trend, thereby amplifying 1981–2012 western U.S. elevation-dependent warming by +217 to +562%

Since you obviously don't understand this or you wouldn't have posted it:
Translation: climate products (models) lead to a FALSE temp trend, reading so that it shows warming 217 to 562 TIMES as much

In the context of a warming climate, this artificial amplification of mountain climate trends has likely compromised our ability to accurately attribute climate change impacts across the mountainous western U.S.

COMPROMISED the ability to ACCURATELY attribute climate change impacts

Translation: EXACTLY what I've been saying.
 
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No, what he is saying is that the models they are using to adjust weather station records are now, and have been for decades, WAY off, and the bias is towards warming.
Man, did you screw the pooch on this one, andypro7:
* there are no models that are used for adjust weather station records - there are methodologies
* the researchers say nothing about global temperatures.

Artificial amplification of warming trends across the mountains of the western United States by Jared W. Oyler, Solomon Z. Dobrowski, Ashley P. Ballantyne, Anna E. Klene, Steven W. Running.
Here we critically evaluate this network's temperature observations and show that extreme warming observed at higher elevations is the result of systematic artifacts and not climatic conditions.
That "systematic artifacts" is the change in sensors.
The warming at higher elevations is NOT the result of climatic condition, unlike what the original data without these artifacts showed.

With artifacts removed, the network's 1991–2012 minimum temperature trend decreases from +1.16°C decade−1 to +0.106°C decade−1 and is statistically indistinguishable from lower elevation trends.
They OVERESTIMATED the warming by a FULL DEGREE in just 21 years because the sensors fooled them!

Moreover, longer-term widely used gridded climate products propagate the spurious temperature trend, thereby amplifying 1981–2012 western U.S. elevation-dependent warming by +217 to +562%.
Obviously ignorance about climate science is continuing at a pace:
* no models!
* no evaluation of the impact of the systematic artifacts on global temperatures in the paper
* western U.S. elevation-dependent warming

In the context of a warming climate, this artificial amplification of mountain climate trends has likely compromised our ability to accurately attribute climate change impacts across the mountainous western U.S.
And here we get to the only mention of global warming in the abstract.
They say that the climate is warming. There will be a local effect of this in the mountainous western U.S. It will be hard to separate the effects of climate change out from the other effects.

andypro7: What have you said about the mountainous western U.S? Wait I know - nothing

P.S. SIx outstanding questions (from 3 March 2015) for and 5 points of ignorance from andypro7
 
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andypro7

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I think I finally get it. You believe in global warming (and presumably Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny as well) because you read these blogs, and articles, and papers and when you're done you THINK they tell you about global warming.

But after reading your last post, I'm convinced you don't know how to read these things at all, and that is the source of your ignorance on the subject. It took me a long time to explain the last one, so I certainly don't have time to teach you how to understand the stuff you read.

Sorry.
 
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Oct 15, 2012
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I think I finally get it. You believe in global warming...
I know I finally get it. You are a global warning denier, andypro7 - someone who is in so much ignorance or denial of the temperature record that they think that world has not warmed

Give the evidence for global warming that is actual belief in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and maybe fairies at the bottom of the garden . Even dedicated climate change skeptics have abandoned that.
So which of the non-warming climate myths are you into, andypro7?
Global cooling - Is global warming still happening?
The 97% consensus on global warming
Are surface temperature records reliable?

P.S. SIx outstanding questions (from 3 March 2015) for and 5 points of ignorance from andypro7
 
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Oh, by the way, as I said, there are THOUSANDS of these from all over the globe
Oh let me count the ways you are wrong, andypro7, oh yes - it is those "THOUSANDS of these from all over the globe" !
I hope that this is not the idiocy that was expressed in those blogs you linked to where the authors were so ignorant that they did not know about the need for adjusting weather station readings?

ETA: I had better check this out given what seems to be an amazing ignorance about climate in the last post (global warming is an observation!).
11th March 2015 andypro7: Do you understand that weather stations change, this affects their readings and thus has to be adjusted for?

P.S. Six outstanding questions (from 3 March 2015) for and 5 points of ignorance from andypro7
 
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andypro7

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I hope that this is not the idiocy that was expressed in those blogs you linked to where the authors were so ignorance that they did not know about the need for adjusting weather station readings?

This guy, CLIMATE RESEARCHER and Global Warming Believer, PUBLISHED in Geophysical Research Letters, knew all about the need for adjusting, so much so that he examined it and found that:

IT SHOWED A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF WARMING THAT DID NOT EXIST!!

But who am I kidding, you already have proven that you're not able to comprehend what he wrote. Oh well.
 
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This guy, ..lots of irrelevant yelling....
Oh dear, andypro7: was that the ignorance of thinking that that mountainous western U.S. is the entire world?

11th March 2015 andypro7: Can you understand that the Oyler et al paper is not about global warming?
The paper is about mountains of the western United States. Artificial amplification of warming trends across the mountains of the western United States by Jared W. Oyler, Solomon Z. Dobrowski, Ashley P. Ballantyne, Anna E. Klene, Steven W. Running.
 
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sculleywr

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conspiracy theorist much? Need a tin foil hat?

How about you please do a little something, prove the conspiracy. Because NINETY FIVE OUT OF A HUNDRED CLIMATE SCIENTISTS AGREE THAT THE "HOCKEY STICK" IS ACCURATE. You don't have that kind of consensus on any publicly controversial topics outside of climate change. It doesn't matter what civilized country you go to. Even Russia agreed with it.

The burden of proof is on you. I showed you the graphs. The hockey stick is there BEFORE the adjustments AND after. NDCC and NASA and Berkeley all show it.

You're the minority and you're the one saying the evidence was tampered with worse than what the data shows. How are we to know that your graphs weren't tampered with since it doesn't even follow the same format as the graphs used by the place they supposedly came from.

I posit that since your graph doesn't share formatting or style with its source, it's a false graph.

Occam's Razor: the explanation that both answers all the questions AND uses the least assumptions is most likely to be true.

Yours assumes an elaborate, unprofitable conspiracy scheme is pushing global warming. Because nobody who supports it is making money like big oil is by pushing your side of things. Climate scientists lose money.

Your source(s) must meet the following criteria:
They must be objective. They cannot be funded by companies that profit off of either side of the debate.

They must be peer reviewed scholarly articles that show the methodology in detail.

If this is science you're claiming to use, this should be easy. I'll start in my next post
 
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andypro7

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NINETY FIVE OUT OF A HUNDRED CLIMATE SCIENTISTS AGREE THAT THE "HOCKEY STICK" IS ACCURATE.

I don't think you understand this issue, allow me to explain.

A few weeks before the 2004 election, Dan Rather and CBS came out with a fraudulent report about Bush and Vietnam. It was soon exposed as fraud. Rather's explanation was that even though THAT PARTICULAR REPORT was proven to be false, Rather still believed the SUBSTANCE of it.

It's the same thing with the hockey stick. If 95% of climate scientists believed that Michael Mann's hockey stick is accurate, then they cease to be scientists.

What you mean to say, like Dan Rather, is that they still believe the substance of what the fake, fraudulent hockey stick represents.

Additionally climate scientists would not be in any position to determine whether the original hockey stick was accurate, since the issue WAS NOT the climate, but rather the phony, fake, fraudulent, lying STATISTICAL METHOD that was used to present the graph.

McIntyre proved, after attempting to replicate Mann's fraud, that virtually ANY numbers you put into Mann's graph produced a hockey stick shape. That's ANY random numbers at all.

Now, if you call that science, or if climate scientists call that science, then they and you have disqualified themselves to discuss science.
 
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