Global warming and the end

eclipsenow · Jul 11, 2013

Biblewriter said:
Some time ago I referred to an ancient map showing[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica] Antarctica ice free.

This was met by the predictable scoffing from the of the global warming fraud. At the time, My book referring to this map was stored where I could not get to it. But I was able to recover it a few days ago. After I had the name of the map, I was able to find copies of it, as well as two others showing the same information, from the internet.

These can be seen and inspected in detail at:[/FONT]

The [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Oronteus Finaeus map of 1532

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]http://www.timstouse.com/EarthHistory/Antarctic/oronteusfinaeus.htm

[/FONT]The Mercator Map of 1538
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]
Forbidden Archeology: The Mercator Map of 1538

The Hadji Ahmed Map of 1559

Hadji Ahmed Map - Unsolved Mysteries In The World

These three maps are the physical proof that there was a time after mankind learned to draw accurate maps what the earth was so warm that Antarctica was at least largely ice free. That is, that at a previous time after mankind had learned to draw accurate maps, the earth was far warmer than at any time in the recent past or at any time even in the next 100 years as predicted by even the most pessimistic Global warming alarmists.
[/FONT]

Dude, you've really got to get out of these whacko creationist magazines or whatever you're reading. Just put them down, go outside and breathe in some fresh air. OK? Because 5 minutes on wikipedia will do you more good than a thousand hours in whatever you've been reading.

(And please don't think I'm completely antagonistic about Mercator because I used to be in Survey corps in the Australian regular army, and was a cartographer myself. I dip my hat to his achievements! I just know not to use them to try and debunk modern cartography or climate science! Talk about drawing a long bow!)

The framed map legends (or cartouches) cover a wide variety of topics: ............ accounts of fictitious geography of the north pole and the southern continent. The full Latin texts and English translations of all the legends are given below. Other minor texts are sprinkled about the map. They cover such topics as the magnetic poles, the prime meridian, navigational features, minor geographical details, the voyages of discovery and myths of giants and cannibals. These minor texts are also given below.

Mercator 1569 world map - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I mean, are you trying to quote ridiculous source documents (the obviously mythical parts of an otherwise groundbreaking map) against modern cartography and atmospheric physics and ice core studies? Really? Mate... it's time to check your meds.

Biblewriter · Jul 11, 2013

eclipsenow said:
Dude, you've really got to get out of these whacko creationist magazines or whatever you're reading. Just put them down, go outside and breathe in some fresh air. OK? Because 5 minutes on wikipedia will do you more good than a thousand hours in whatever you've been reading.

(And please don't think I'm completely antagonistic about Mercator because I used to be in Survey corps in the Australian regular army, and was a cartographer myself. I dip my hat to his achievements! I just know not to use them to try and debunk modern cartography or climate science! Talk about drawing a long bow!)

Mercator 1569 world map - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I mean, are you trying to quote ridiculous source documents (the obviously mythical parts of an otherwise groundbreaking map) against modern cartography and atmospheric physics and ice core studies? Really? Mate... it's time to check your meds.

These maps do not show even one "mythical" land. Instead, they show details that are correct, and that were unknown to modern cartographers even hundreds of years after they were drawn. They are conclusive proof that at an unknown time in ancient history someone drew a highly accurate map of the entire earth.

In the Hadji Ahmed map, for instance, you can clearly recognize both both North and South America, with Alaska, Newfoundland, Cape Hatteras, southern Florida, lower California, the Yutacan Peninsula, Cuba, and the Isthmus of Panama. It also shows the shape of Antarctica surprisingly well, even though it shows it much too large. You will also notice, if you look closely, that the areas known to cartographers of the day are far less accurate than the maps of areas they knew nothing about.

But the point I was making was that both the Oronteus Fineaus map and the Mercator map clearly show, and the Hadji Ahmed map less clearly shows, both the Ross sea,and the Weddell Sea. All three of these maps show Antarctica without the ice shelves that exist today, and two of them show mountains in the right places. These were unknown to modern cartographers until ice soundings were made by various nations during the International Geophysical year of 1958. But there they are, on ancient maps. You can choose whether to believe that the ice was not there when they made the maps, or that the ancient cartographers had equipment capable of identifying land features under thousands of feet of ice, and simply chose to not show the ice. Either one or the other of these choices absolutely has to be correct.

You can mock, and call me a doddering old fool, but you cannot get rid of the maps, for they are not mythical, but are in the Smithsonian Institute.

And here is just another in a very, very long series of attempts by "scientists" to squelch debate on what they falsely claim is "proven science."

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...my-professor-who-embraces-intelligent-design/

It is very easy to "prove" things when you forcibly silence everyone who disagrees with you. But answering them in open debate is something else altogether. We have extensive proof that this is the way both Evolution and Global Warming are "proven." I have observed this in the case of evolution for longer than you have been alive. I was even forced to sign a paper advising me that I would be fired if I voiced my beliefs. And climategate clearly demonstrated that this is exactly what is being done in the case of Global Warming. This is standard operating procedure for entities that are attacking the Word of God, the Bible.

Modern "science" is not open minded at all.

eclipsenow · Jul 11, 2013

Biblewriter said:
These maps do not show even one "mythical" land. Instead, they show details that are correct, and that were unknown to modern cartographers even hundreds of years after they were drawn. They are conclusive proof that at an unknown time in ancient history someone drew a highly accurate map of the entire earth.

You do have a passion for big, bold statements (CONCLUSIVE PROOF!) about nothing. They were hypothetical.

In the Hadji Ahmed map, for instance, you can clearly recognize both both North and South America, with Alaska, Newfoundland, Cape Hatteras, southern Florida, lower California, the Yutacan Peninsula, Cuba, and the Isthmus of Panama. It also shows the shape of Antarctica surprisingly well, even though it shows it much too large. You will also notice, if you look closely, that the areas known to cartographers of the day are far less accurate than the maps of areas they knew nothing about.

Dude, as far as I can tell the Jajji Ahmed map was created after Magellan. So I don't know what you're fussing about? Give me a date for the Hajji Ahmed map... all I can make out is this...

Hajji Ahmed appended a lengthy commentary to a 16th-century map of the world annotated in the Turkish language, known as The Ottoman Mappa Mundi of Hajji Ahmed, amongst other titles, which opens with "Whoever wishes to know the true shape of the world, their minds shall be filled with light and their breast with joy."[1]
The map is heart shaped, and the extant copy was printed from wooden blocks in Venice, Italy, in 1559. It was kept until the late 18th century in the archives of the Venetian Council of Ten.

Hajji Ahmed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But the Magellan expedition was 1519 to 1522. The map seems to be a product of their new information.

Ferdinand Magellan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But the point I was making was that both the Oronteus Fineaus map and the Mercator map clearly show, and the Hadji Ahmed map less clearly shows, both the Ross sea,and the Weddell Sea. All three of these maps show Antarctica without the ice shelves that exist today, and two of them show mountains in the right places. These were unknown to modern cartographers until ice soundings were made by various nations during the International Geophysical year of 1958. But there they are, on ancient maps. You can choose whether to believe that the ice was not there when they made the maps, or that the ancient cartographers had equipment capable of identifying land features under thousands of feet of ice, and simply chose to not show the ice. Either one or the other of these choices absolutely has to be correct.

You live in a world of 'absolutes' on pretty scant, subjective data.

You can mock, and call me a doddering old fool, but you cannot get rid of the maps, for they are not mythical, but are in the Smithsonian Institute.

I don't need to 'get rid of' them, but just to explain their context, and that parts of them were stated by the authors to be based on myth. But understanding and recognising genre's always has been difficult for Creationists and Dispensationalists.

Biblewriter · Jul 11, 2013

eclipsenow said:
You do have a passion for big, bold statements (CONCLUSIVE PROOF!) about nothing. They were hypothetical.

There is nothing hypothetical about the maps. They are very real.

Dude, as far as I can tell the Jajji Ahmed map was created after Magellan. So I don't know what you're fussing about? Give me a date for the Hajji Ahmed map... all I can make out is this...

Hajji Ahmed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But the Magellan expedition was 1519 to 1522. The map seems to be a product of their new information.

Ferdinand Magellan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When the map was drawn is not significant. The fact that is shows accurate detail about North America is the conclusive, yes, CONCLUSIVE proof that it came from a very accurate ancient source. Magellan never even sailed near North America, so he could not have been the source of the information.

I don't need to 'get rid of' them, but just to explain their context, and that parts of them were stated by the authors to be based on myth. But understanding and recognising genre's always has been difficult for Creationists and Dispensationalists.[/quote]

Where did you get the notion that any of them ever said that any of their data came from "myth." None of your links contains any such statement. But even if that was true, the "myths" were not myths at all, for the data was accurate. You can mock it, but you cannot escape it.

eclipsenow · Jul 13, 2013

Biblewriter said:
The [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Oronteus Finaeus map of 1532

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]http://www.timstouse.com/EarthHistory/Antarctic/oronteusfinaeus.htm

[/FONT]The Mercator Map of 1538
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]
Forbidden Archeology: The Mercator Map of 1538

The Hadji Ahmed Map of 1559

Hadji Ahmed Map - Unsolved Mysteries In The World

Dude, they had a rough idea of North & South America from the explorers that went out before these maps were created. I'm still at a loss as to what you think is so miraculous or mysterious or contradictory about these maps?

For more details see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Discovery

Caboto, Da Verrazano, Colon, and Magellan all discovered North and South America before these maps were drafted. Oh, and as far as I can tell, Antarctica was drafted as the 'hypothetical' great southern continent and, no, it didn't have ice on it because they were guessing what was there! From history I remember Australia & Antarctica both falling into the 'Great Southern Land' theory that (according to the geology of the time) there just had to be a large supercontinent down below to 'balance' the Earth. (Yeah, their continental plate theory was still developing. )

So yes, there are 'hypothetical' areas on the map... the southern continent was guesswork!

Biblewriter · Jul 13, 2013

eclipsenow said:
Biblewriter said:

The [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Oronteus Finaeus map of 1532

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]http://www.timstouse.com/EarthHistory/Antarctic/oronteusfinaeus.htm

[/FONT]The Mercator Map of 1538
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]
Forbidden Archeology: The Mercator Map of 1538

The Hadji Ahmed Map of 1559

Hadji Ahmed Map - Unsolved Mysteries In The World

Dude, they had a rough idea of North & South America from the explorers that went out before these maps were created. I'm still at a loss as to what you think is so miraculous or mysterious or contradictory about these maps?

For more details see
Age of Discovery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Caboto, Da Verrazano, Colon, and Magellan all discovered North and South America before these maps were drafted. Oh, and as far as I can tell, Antarctica was drafted as the 'hypothetical' great southern continent and, no, it didn't have ice on it because they were guessing what was there! From history I remember Australia & Antarctica both falling into the 'Great Southern Land' theory that (according to the geology of the time) there just had to be a large supercontinent down below to 'balance' the Earth. (Yeah, their continental plate theory was still developing. )

So yes, there are 'hypothetical' areas on the map... the southern continent was guesswork!

Click to expand...

You are grasping at straws in your attempts to discredit these maps. But the only thing you are proving is that your knowledge of history is just as poor as your knowledge of science.

Your own map shows absolutely no explorer even approaching the western shore of North America, and no explorer visiting the western side of southern Florida or the Yutacan Peninsula, or even circumnavigating Cuba. Yet the map clearly shows all these details.

The Hadji Ahmed map shows many, yes, many, correct details about areas that not even one of these explorers visited.

And the details of Antarctica in the [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Oronteus Finaeus map of 1532 and to a lessor degree the[/FONT]The Mercator Map of 1538 are are far too accurate to have been just "guesses" about an unknown southern land. They correctly locate both the Ross Sea and the Weddell Sea, and they show both the continent as a whole and these two seas at approximately the right size and shape, as well as showing mountains in the right places. Many of these details were unknown to modern cartographers until 1958!

Zanting · Jul 13, 2013

Hey Eclipse...how is pushing for "greening the outback" going? Is there an organization working growing stuff? Are you involved in any projects? How costly is it? What's involved in starting irrigation and enhancing soil conditions? Would you start with relatively arid resistant plants to help build nutrients in the soil as well as generate cash flow to expand? I'm just curious about what is involved in putting it all together and if or how you contribute to a cause that you are so passionate about? How can others help (labor, or funding)?

Often seeking others who are willing to offer support on a variety of levels for these kinds of efforts is really productive and beneficial.

IMO...Climate change has many man contributed causes including Co2 so anything people do to reduce causes of climate change is helpful.

eclipsenow · Jul 14, 2013

Zanting said:
Hey Eclipse...how is pushing for "greening the outback" going? Is there an organization working growing stuff? Are you involved in any projects? How costly is it? What's involved in starting irrigation and enhancing soil conditions? Would you start with relatively arid resistant plants to help build nutrients in the soil as well as generate cash flow to expand? I'm just curious about what is involved in putting it all together and if or how you contribute to a cause that you are so passionate about? How can others help (labor, or funding)?

Often seeking others who are willing to offer support on a variety of levels for these kinds of efforts is really productive and beneficial.

IMO...Climate change has many man contributed causes including Co2 so anything people do to reduce causes of climate change is helpful.

I'm not involved in it in any way, and am just a 'lay reader' passionate about exploring different options. One peer-reviewed paper I read on it seemed reluctant to actually put an explicit dollar figure on it, but once the rates of data were extrapolated out, it looked like it would cost a few TRILLION dollars a year. But now that companies are already making money growing food from seawater pumped & solar desalinated in the desert, the skies the limits.

As I say on my blog,

Who pays?

Considering that the global agricultural output is worth 6.2% of world GDP, or $4.2 trillion a year, and this can only grow as our worlds population grows and demands more food, fuel, and fibre, we can see a potentially huge marketplace for desert grown food (and forests for fibre and fuel). Not only this, but sadly many of our best farmlands are deteriorating under poor management, and Im all for bringing them back and storing more carbon in their soils. (See Replenish the soil). But this may not be enough! An extra 2 billion people will want food to eat, timber to build and fibre to clothe themselves. This is going to have to come from new farmlands, but generally speaking there isnt any good new farmland available. Weve used all the good arable land, and what remains should be protected as National Parks and vulnerable ecosystems. So whats the answer? We may just see that in Western Australia.
Sundrop Farms have developed a seawater greenhouse that desalinates enough seawater to grow their foods, provide some fertiliser, and gradually reclaim some of the land around the desert for other purposes like growing algae and fish. Not only this, but theyre making money! As The Guardian reports (November 2012)

Green Deserts | Eclipse Now

eclipsenow · Jul 14, 2013

Biblewriter said:
eclipsenow said:

You are grasping at straws in your attempts to discredit these maps. But the only thing you are proving is that your knowledge of history is just as poor as your knowledge of science.

Your own map shows absolutely no explorer even approaching the western shore of North America, and no explorer visiting the western side of southern Florida or the Yutacan Peninsula, or even circumnavigating Cuba. Yet the map clearly shows all these details.

The Hadji Ahmed map shows many, yes, many, correct details about areas that not even one of these explorers visited.

And the details of Antarctica in the [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Oronteus Finaeus map of 1532 and to a lessor degree the[/FONT]The Mercator Map of 1538 are are far too accurate to have been just "guesses" about an unknown southern land. They correctly locate both the Ross Sea and the Weddell Sea, and they show both the continent as a whole and these two seas at approximately the right size and shape, as well as showing mountains in the right places. Many of these details were unknown to modern cartographers until 1958!

Click to expand...

Let's take these one at a time. The Hadji Ahmed map shows what, exactly, that is pertinent to your assertions? Yeah, it's so accurate with Antarctica (the only part relevant to this discussion) that one enormous peninsula thrusts up the Pacific parallel to South America!

And where's Australia?

Yeah, this map sure does bring modern climate science into doubt, and casts questions on million-year thick ice core samples!
(If one squints really hard you might even turn the bit sticking up through the Pacific into Australia, if you forget that it's in the wrong place and the wrong shape and over next to South America and attached to the rest of the 'Great Southern Land').

Nope, nothing in the Hadji Ahmed challenges climate science.

eclipsenow · Jul 14, 2013

Now let us consider Oronteus Finaeus. Dude, I'm simply correct. That map is a hodge-podge of myth and maybe, just maybe some discoveries of Australia. It hardly represents Antarctica at all! Where is the Antarctic peninsula? Why is it so close to South America? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence... and this is just so much mumbo jumbo. Only a creationist would take Oroteus Finaeus's map as evidence against the ice core samples.
Hapgood’s Theory of Earth Crust Displacement

Quantum Paradise · Jul 14, 2013

eclipsenow said:
Many Christians who bother to read about the actual science of climate change (and don't just get their science from politically distorted opinions on Fox News) sometimes wonder how it all fits into the 'End times' or Last Days? I have a theologian friend who is doing this very subject as their Phd. He concludes that there is a place for mourning the wholesale destruction of God's world that God made and cares about. He thinks that the church has a large role to play in leading a movement towards caring about and solving climate change. Sure a lot of this could just be selfish self-preservation. I don't want to live in a world striving through fresh water wars and climate disrupted famines. I don't want to see more species going extinct, as I like animals. But I should probably care more than I do just from selfish reasons. I should care because God, my Father in Heaven, made this world. He fashioned it out of billions of years of evolution, and then had the early Hebrews write a poem about how orderly it all is. He woke up the first humans and gave them sentience. He gave us some means of living forever, but then we turned our back on him and we died. He gave us a nice climate to have civilisation evolve in, but then we trashed that too. As Christians, we should care about this stuff, and try to honour God in these Last Days with our lives, our money, our relationships, and our energy sources... and the letters we write to government about cleaning those energy sources up.

And we should be careful we're not conned by the greed of fossil fuel corporations.

A million here, a million there, and pretty soon you're talking about real money!

Actually, the accurate term would be climate change, not global warming.

The big problem, however, is how we know past and present arguments concerning ''global warming'' are based on research that is either non-conclusive or largely fraudulent, to the point where the careers of scientists are sacrificed in order to prop up these claims being made. When you realize how this thing is being carried on the winds of dishonesty and deception, it becomes very clear that the climate change mumbo-jumbo you hear about in the mainstream belongs to an agenda, especially the idea that humans are the ones responsible for it.

In terms of what this agenda is and who are the ones behind it, well that's something else entirely.

Biblewriter · Jul 14, 2013

eclipsenow said:
Biblewriter said:

Let's take these one at a time. The Hadji Ahmed map shows what, exactly, that is pertinent to your assertions? Yeah, it's so accurate with Antarctica (the only part relevant to this discussion) that one enormous peninsula thrusts up the Pacific parallel to South America!

And where's Australia?

(Your map deleted.)

Yeah, this map sure does bring modern climate science into doubt, and casts questions on million-year thick ice core samples!
(If one squints really hard you might even turn the bit sticking up through the Pacific into Australia, if you forget that it's in the wrong place and the wrong shape and over next to South America and attached to the rest of the 'Great Southern Land').

Nope, nothing in the Hadji Ahmed challenges climate science.

Click to expand...

It would help if you bothered to actually check what map you are discussing.

The map you posted here is not the Hadji Ahmed map, but a different map altogether, not even one I mentioned, although it was drawn by one of the cartographers I mentioned.

Here is the Hadji Ahmed map of 1559. You should notice that it clearly shows all the features I mentioned, including both both North and South America, with Alaska, Newfoundland, Cape Hatteras, southern Florida, lower California, the Yutacan Peninsula, Cuba, and the Isthmus of Panama. These features were for the most part wholly unknown to the cartographers of the day, and are conclusive proof that they were drawn from an unknown ancient source.

Biblewriter · Jul 14, 2013

eclipsenow said:
Now let us consider Oronteus Finaeus. Dude, I'm simply correct. That map is a hodge-podge of myth and maybe, just maybe some discoveries of Australia. It hardly represents Antarctica at all! Where is the Antarctic peninsula? Why is it so close to South America? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence... and this is just so much mumbo jumbo. Only a creationist would take Oroteus Finaeus's map as evidence against the ice core samples.
Hapgood’s Theory of Earth Crust Displacement

Again, it would be difficult for you to be more wrong.

Here is the Orenteus Finaeus Map of 1532.

And here is Antartica from that map, redrawn according to the rules of cartography on a modern projection and sperimposed on a modern map of Antarctica.

eclipsenow · Jul 14, 2013

Biblewriter said:
Again, it would be difficult for you to be more wrong.

Here is the Orenteus Finaeus Map of 1532.

And here is Antartica from that map, redrawn according to the rules of cartography on a modern projection and sperimposed on a modern map of Antarctica.

Yep, you said it.

REDRAWN!!!!

A little bit... for your position, isn't it? That you have to admit this out loud like this?
Anyway, this is totally off topic and a bit boring and sad. I'm not going to indulge your fantasies any longer.

Biblewriter · Jul 14, 2013

eclipsenow said:
Yep, you said it.

REDRAWN!!!!
A little bit... for your position, isn't it? That you have to admit this out loud like this?

It is really different to debate with someone so grossly ignorant of the subjects he is trying to debate. What I said was most absolutely NOT an admission. What I said was "redrawn according to the rules of cartography"

It is physically impossible to draw a true map of the surface of the earth (a sphere) on a flat piece of paper. So the true shape has to be distorted to fit a flat sheet. These distortions are called projections. Any map drawn in one projection can be accurately redrawn in a different projection, but only if the rules of cartography are strictly applied.

The rules are that a point at a given coordinate location on one projection has to be located at exactly the same coordinate in the new projection.

The Orenteus Fineaus Map was drawn in a projection that is not commonly used today. We do not even have a name for his projection. But he carefully drew and labelled his latitude and longitude lines, so it is actually very easy to convert his details into a common modern projection.

The person who did this for the Christian Science Monitor redrew it on a projection identical to a common modern projection, and overlaid it on a modern map of Antarctica. This starkly demonstrated the accuracy of the Orenteus Fineaus Map.

But he did not redraw all the rivers and mountains shown by Orenteus Finreaus, nor did he redraw the mountains he indicated. These mountains were unknown to modern cartographers until 1958, but there they are, on a map obviously drawn fron an unknown ancient source.

But now I must address another stark error in your claims. You claim that these maps are contradictory to core evidence. But cores taken offshore in Antarctica agree completely with these maps. They show alternate layers of River delta type sediment and glacial sediment. These are physical proof that Antarctica has experienced a long series of alternate warm and cold periods which humans could not have affected in any way.

eclipsenow · Jul 14, 2013

Quantum Paradise said:
Actually, the accurate term would be climate change, not global warming.

The big problem, however, is how we know past and present arguments concerning ''global warming'' are based on research that is either non-conclusive or largely fraudulent, to the point where the careers of scientists are sacrificed in order to prop up these claims being made. When you realize how this thing is being carried on the winds of dishonesty and deception, it becomes very clear that the climate change mumbo-jumbo you hear about in the mainstream belongs to an agenda, especially the idea that humans are the ones responsible for it.

In terms of what this agenda is and who are the ones behind it, well that's something else entirely.

Well, in popular literature we call it global warming. The PR adviser to the Bush regime decided 'climate change' was less threatening, so it was rebranded as that. (Even though the science was originally climate science).

However, I think you got the next paragraph upside down. Here, I'll fix it for you.

The big problem, however, is how we know past and present arguments concerning ''global warming'' are based on research that is either absolutely correct and scientifically verified, and that this frightens many people into a Republican Denialist mindset where they no longer want to trust science.

This fits right in with the multi-trillion dollar investments of fossil fuel companies who can afford to make the careers of scientists whose consciences are sacrificed in order to prop up these Deniast claims being made. When you realize how this thing is being carried on the winds of dishonesty and deception by the Koch Brothers and Exxon, it becomes very clear that the Denialist mumbo-jumbo you hear about in the mainstream belongs to an agenda, especially the idea that weaning off fossil fuels is an attack on the free market. If anything, it ensures the survival of the free market as multiple energy sources are discovered, not just a few, and as it prepares the marketplace for the inevitable fact that we will ultimately run out of fossil fuels one day anyway!

eclipsenow · Jul 14, 2013

Biblewriter said:
The Orenteus Fineaus Map was drawn in a projection that is not commonly used today. We do not even have a name for his projection. But he carefully drew and labelled his latitude and longitude lines, so it is actually very easy to convert his details into a common modern projection.
.

Dude, the original map was completely out of scale, wrong, and other than being something at the bottom of the world and having some mountains somewhere, was completely different. Get it?

Terra Australis (meaning "South Land") is one of the names given to a hypothetical continent which appeared on European maps between the 15th and 18th centuries. Although the landmass was drawn onto maps, Terra Australis was not based on any actual surveying of such a landmass but rather based on the hypothesis that continents in the Northern Hemisphere should be balanced by land in the south.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_Australis

This was an OLD concept, as old as the Greeks. Any attempt to 'redraw' them only comes from a distorted creationist mindset afraid of peer-reviewed science.

Biblewriter · Jul 14, 2013

eclipsenow said:
Dude, the original map was completely out of scale, wrong, and other than being something at the bottom of the world and having some mountains somewhere, was completely different. Get it?

Terra Australis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You are simply refusing to admit what I demonstrated beyond the possibility of rational debate. The map indeed was seriously flawed. for most of it was based on the current bad information circulation among the cartographers of his day. But, altough he had Antarctica slightly mislocated, he indeed accurately represented its true landform, even though cartographers of his day knew nothing about it.

The fact that he accurately represented the general shape of the continent, and accurately drew the coastlines of both the Ross Sea and the Weddell Sea, proves that he had access to some kind of an ancient map that was drawn when these coastlands were not covered with ice.

The errors in the other parts of this map only highlight the fact that somewhere, he had stumbled upon an accurate map of Antartica, which he chose to call Terra Australis. This ancient source map was not based on legend. It was based on actual measurements that someone had taken at a time when the coastland of Australia was not covered with ice.

You can mock at it, and you can mock me, but you cannot explain away this map. For it is real and well known.

eclipsenow · Jul 14, 2013

Biblewriter said:
You are simply refusing to admit what I demonstrated beyond the possibility of rational debate.

"Oh the humanity..."
Is this like the 'beyond possibility of rational debate' of your reading of Irenaeus's grammar?

Biblewriter · Jul 15, 2013

Final proof is a comparison of the locations of mountains on the Orenteus Finaeus Map of 1532 with the actual locations of Antarctic mountains as found by modern under ice research.

Ancient map.

Antarctica portion rotated to align with modern map below.

Actual locations of Antarctic mountains.

Notice that the ancient map shows moutains everywhere they were found except under the central ice cap and on the penensula, which for some reason was missing from the ancient map. Notice also that modern research has actually found mountains under the ice in most of the places the ancient map shows them.

Global warming and the end

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