Giving to the rich brings a curse.

RandyPNW

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All politics lead us astray into ungodliness and unfaithful spiritual adultery.
You don't consider any kings in history "good?" What about King David? God called him "good."
 
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HopeSings

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You don't consider any kings in history "good?" What about King David? God called him "good."
God didn't want Israel to have a king but they cried for it. Jesus was the king but it was t good enough for them.. David represents Jesus symbolically in Isaiah chapter 55 and Ezekiel 34.
 
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RandyPNW

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God didn't want Israel to have a king but they cried for it. Jesus was the king but it was t good enough for them.. David represents Jesus symbolically in Isaiah chapter 55 and Ezekiel 34.
Nevertheless, I don't see any lack of good men in history who were political leaders. It is a necessary calling of God.

God wants order in the state, and would protect the cause of justice and compassion. Military protection is also a godly concern, which is also what political leaders are responsible for.

There is a bad thing when political interests displace interests in the public and in people. I would agree that self-serving politics is an evil.
 
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HopeSings

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Nevertheless, I don't see any lack of good men in history who were political leaders. It is a necessary calling of God.

God wants order in the state, and would protect the cause of justice and compassion. Military protection is also a godly concern, which is also what political leaders are responsible for.

There is a bad thing when political interests displace interests in the public and in people. I would agree that self-serving politics is an evil.
Your folks are confused. Politics are worldly fears and concerns. It's divided and contention. It's not Jesus.
 
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HopeSings

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Nevertheless, I don't see any lack of good men in history who were political leaders. It is a necessary calling of God.

God wants order in the state, and would protect the cause of justice and compassion. Military protection is also a godly concern, which is also what political leaders are responsible for.

There is a bad thing when political interests displace interests in the public and in people. I would agree that self-serving politics is an evil.
Government isn't a gift of the Spirit. God gave us pagans for leaders in Jesus time. Rome was pagan.
 
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timewerx

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Is giving to rich politicians and preachers a sin?

Priverbs 22:16 One who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and one who gives gifts to the rich—both come to poverty.

I think King Solomon is speaking of the after-life - the reward or punishment awaiting us after we die because the wisdom of Proverbs 22:16 doesn't work in this world. It's usually the evil people or those following false teachings who gets rewarded while living in this world.

"Investing on the winners" (giving to the rich, "buying" the friendship of the rich) have actually increased the wealth of many experienced investors and "street smart" people.

If you give substantial portions of your wealth to the poor "investing on the losers". Well, you'll lose substantial portions of your wealth... you might even end up poor yourself.

Even Jesus said the same thing in Luke 16:9. That verse is actually saying to use our money to gain friends among the poor (charity, humanitarian aid, inviting them to a meal, etc) - investing on the poor and the latter part of the verse says, our wealth will fail - we will get poor from investing on the poor. Though that verse doesn't say we should make friends with the poor and not the rich, if you read Luke 14:12-15 then you'll realize what kind of people Jesus wants us to have as friends.

Even Jesus knows that being extravagantly generous to the poor can make you poor.

On the other-hand oppressing the poor have made so many people filthy rich and they also died rich. They run businesses that employs the poor and doesn't compensate them fairly. Profiting from companies that oppresses the poor means you share in their evil practice.

Rich businesses who seem like they're making charitable contributions to the poor and they're still rich isn't giving as much as Jesus would have. They're just doing it for the show, just like the Pharisees. They "announce them with trumpets" and some in fact make money from these highly publicized charitable events.

This is probably why Jesus said we should help the poor.
 
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HopeSings

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I think King Solomon is speaking of the after-life - the reward or punishment awaiting us after we die because the wisdom of Proverbs 22:16 doesn't work in this world. It's usually the evil people or those following false teachings who gets rewarded while living in this world.

"Investing on the winners" (giving to the rich, "buying" the friendship of the rich) have actually increased the wealth of many experienced investors and "street smart" people.

If you give substantial portions of your wealth to the poor "investing on the losers". Well, you'll lose substantial portions of your wealth... you might even end up poor yourself.

Even Jesus said the same thing in Luke 16:9. That verse is actually saying to use our money to gain friends among the poor (charity, humanitarian aid, etc) - investing on the poor and the latter part of the verse says, our wealth will fail - we will get poor from investing on the poor.

Even Jesus knows that being extravagantly generous to the poor can make you poor.

On the other-hand oppressing the poor have made so many people filthy rich and they also died rich. They run businesses that employs the poor and doesn't compensate them fairly. Profiting from companies that oppresses the poor means you share in their evil practice.

Rich businesses who seem like they're making charitable contributions to the poor and they're still rich isn't giving as much as Jesus would have. They're just doing it for the show, just like the Pharisees. They "announce them with trumpets" and some in fact make money from these highly publicized charitable events.

This is probably why Jesus said we should help the poor.
Sure, what you described oppresses the poor, but so is refusing to help the poor in the way I described. Not paying the poor fair wages as you said is refusing to help the poor as well. It's the same thing really. But prosperity comes from God and not politicians or employers. Prosperity is having food and clothes and being content. That's faith and wisdom and its true wealth
 
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timewerx

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Sure, what you described oppresses the poor, but so is refusing to help the poor in the way I described. Not paying the poor fair wages as you said is refusing to help the poor as well. It's the same thing really. But prosperity comes from God and not politicians or employers. Prosperity is having food and clothes and being content. That's faith and wisdom and its true wealth

The way commerce in this world works is that wealth is taken from the poor and given to the rich.

Because the world is evil. And it makes money evil. This is why Jesus said if you love money, you will hate God. If you love God, you will hate money. Jesus is describing money as if it is the devil himself.

And because this world takes wealth (money) from the poor, it is unjust. If you just make money from the world and not help the poor then you share this injustice with the world.
 
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HopeSings

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The way commerce in this world works is that wealth is taken from the poor and given to the rich.

Because the world is evil. And it makes money evil. This is why Jesus said if you love money, you will hate God. If you love God, you will hate money. Jesus is describing money as if it is the devil himself.

And because this world takes wealth (money) from the poor, it is unjust. If you just make money from the world and not help the poor then you share this injustice with the world.
I agree. Luxury and wealth isn't the faith I see in scripture. Neither is politics.
 
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HopeSings

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The way commerce in this world works is that wealth is taken from the poor and given to the rich.

Because the world is evil. And it makes money evil. This is why Jesus said if you love money, you will hate God. If you love God, you will hate money. Jesus is describing money as if it is the devil himself.

And because this world takes wealth (money) from the poor, it is unjust. If you just make money from the world and not help the poor then you share this injustice with the world.
A simple man who is content with simplicity will be prosperous. Other men will work hard and waste their life in pursuit of wealth. Those who find wealth will be poor in God if you ask me. They had their mind and heart set on money but not Jesus. They didn't build spiritual wealth
 
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timewerx

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A simple man who is content with simplicity will be prosperous. Other men will work hard and waste their life in pursuit of wealth. Those who find wealth will be poor in God if you ask me. They had their mind and heart set on money but not Jesus. They didn't build spiritual wealth

More people these days are finding wealth but climate change is getting worse. I think it's connected because it's those who has money who consumes the most energy they buy a lot, drive and fly a lot, and planes are one of the biggest contributor of greenhouse gases and air pollution.

Reminds me of Revelation 11:18
 
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HopeSings

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More people these days are finding wealth but climate change is getting worse. I think it's connected because it's those who has money who consumes the most energy they buy a lot, drive and fly a lot, and planes are one of the biggest contributor of greenhouse gases and air pollution.

Reminds me of Revelation 11:18
I don't concern myself with such things.
 
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timewerx

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I don't concern myself with such things.

I didn't used to and then I read Rev 11:18, I was like:swoon:

I also realized that climate change is oppressing the poor. The poor don't usually have or can't afford A/C or adequate heating/shelter or adequate clothing to deal with extremes of temperature. They don't have the money to move elsewhere and immigration offices around the world discriminates the poor from gaining entry to their countries. They only allow the rich or highly skilled (in other words, they only allow either the rich and strong to enter but prevent the weak from getting in).

If you're not minimizing activities that contribute to climate change then you contribute to the oppression of the poor.

Ironically, spending less money is a good start, and then recycling things, etc.

It would be ridiculous for someone to say they drive an electric car but also owns several of those and upgrade to the latest model every year. It takes lots of energy, generate lots of waste and pollution to manufacture a car so they're still very much a part of the problem. Or they use solar energy to save money so they can use that money save to buy more stuff. I takes energy to make anything and manufacturing will always generate waste and pollution. It's crazy so really, the best way to minimizing your contribution to climate change is spend less money.
 
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HopeSings

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I didn't used to and then I read Rev 11:18, I was like:swoon:

I also realized that climate change is oppressing the poor. The poor don't usually have or can't afford A/C or adequate heating/shelter or adequate clothing to deal with extremes of temperature. They don't have the money to move elsewhere and immigration offices around the world discriminates the poor from gaining entry to their countries. They only allow the rich or highly skilled (in other words, they only allow either the rich and strong to enter but prevent the weak from getting in).

If you're not minimizing activities that contribute to climate change then you contribute to the oppression of the poor.

Ironically, spending less money is a good start, and then recycling things, etc.

It would be ridiculous for someone to say they drive an electric car but also owns several of those and upgrade to the latest model every year. It takes lots of energy, generate lots of waste and pollution to manufacture a car so they're still very much a part of the problem. Or they use solar energy to save money so they can use that money save to buy more stuff. I takes energy to make anything and manufacturing will always generate waste and pollution. It's crazy so really, the best way to minimizing your contribution to climate change is spend less money.
God will destroy the world and make a new one. We are a nation.

Isaiah 60:22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time.
 
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HopeSings

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I didn't used to and then I read Rev 11:18, I was like:swoon:

I also realized that climate change is oppressing the poor. The poor don't usually have or can't afford A/C or adequate heating/shelter or adequate clothing to deal with extremes of temperature. They don't have the money to move elsewhere and immigration offices around the world discriminates the poor from gaining entry to their countries. They only allow the rich or highly skilled (in other words, they only allow either the rich and strong to enter but prevent the weak from getting in).

If you're not minimizing activities that contribute to climate change then you contribute to the oppression of the poor.

Ironically, spending less money is a good start, and then recycling things, etc.

It would be ridiculous for someone to say they drive an electric car but also owns several of those and upgrade to the latest model every year. It takes lots of energy, generate lots of waste and pollution to manufacture a car so they're still very much a part of the problem. Or they use solar energy to save money so they can use that money save to buy more stuff. I takes energy to make anything and manufacturing will always generate waste and pollution. It's crazy so really, the best way to minimizing your contribution to climate change is spend less money.
You forget that God said not to love the world in John's letter. Sure we can enjoy nature but it's temporary and not to be worshiped. See Colossians 3. Look to heaven.
 
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timewerx

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You forget that God said not to love the world in John's letter. Sure we can enjoy nature but it's temporary and not to be worshiped. See Colossians 3. Look to heaven.

It is my understanding that the "world" in 1 John 2:15-17 is about is about the corrupt system built by man.

"The lust of the flesh" food, sex, pleasure. "Lust of the Eyes" Things people love to acquire, to possess. To most people, it's not trees, it's money, and things you can buy with money (again, not trees, but expensive cars, expensive clothing, nice house). Finally, the "pride of life" - worldly achievements.

While I agree, we shouldn't love nature as well, it doesn't mean we are free to destroy it. We should be treating nature as God would have Adam treated the Garden of Eden.
 
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HopeSings

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It is my understanding that the "world" in 1 John 2:15-17 is about is about the corrupt system built by man.

"The lust of the flesh" food, sex, pleasure. "Lust of the Eyes" Things people love to acquire, to possess. To most people, it's not trees, it's money, and things you can buy with money (again, not trees, but expensive cars, expensive clothing, nice house). Finally, the "pride of life" - worldly achievements.

While I agree, we shouldn't love nature as well, it doesn't mean we are free to destroy it. We should be treating nature as God would have Adam treated the Garden of Eden.
I don't hate trees but they will be destroyed.
 
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timewerx

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I don't hate trees but they will be destroyed.
They will be collateral damage when God judges the world because of ours sins.

The circumstances of their destruction is the sinfulness of mankind. Otherwise, they don't need to be destroyed.
 
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