Give me a Reason.

My post was not related in any manner to any question here. But thank you for posting what I said again. It was in response to all of the responses, which are completely rebellious to the point they are willing to change God's Word as IF they could.

Why don't you be a little more respectful and keep your tone down, especially when you are talking to people old enough to be your mother. hmm? Don't children in general have respect for their elders anymore? Especially one claiming to wear the name Christian?

I may be forthright, and I may avoid PC terminology as much as possible, but I haven't been "nasty" to anyone here, not that there aren't several that would deserve it. If there was a humbleness of spirit from the other side, a repentant attitude, rather than blatant rebellion of God and His Word while claiming to belong to Him, I wouldn't need to be as forthright and direct either. But this place full of stiff necked rebels who are deceiving themselves and others and unfortunately require it.

Do me a favor and "chill".

TheFathersDaughter said:

Again that's dodging the question. I didn't see a single consequence in there just "well God says so". That wasn't the question. Same goes for DMagoh. I'm not asking why does the Bible say. I'm asking what consequences there are. And all I'm getting is "the Bible says/doesn't say this or that." The Bible also doesn't say anything positive about computers. So by your logic, computers are evil? I would hope not. You're typing on one.

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MercyBurst said:

It's a wasted life.

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So if you lived exactly the same life that you now live, except that you were gay, your life would be wasted? How so?

Think about how it will be defending a lifestyle that more than half the people in this world don't agree with.

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It's worse than that, actually. Gays often have to defend their very lives from some of those people who don't agree with them. That does not make the gays wrong. It makes the haters, bashers, and murderers wrong.

At social events, a gay couple is really kind of odd, socially speaking.

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Depends on the event. I've been to events where the straights are the odd ones out. And to many, many more where no one cares who is gay and who is straight.

At family gatherings, everyone else has children and grandchildren.

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Gays have families. Gays have children and grandchildren.

The physical and mental issues are greater. Life spans are typically shorter.

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People who live a single "lifestyle" have shorter life exectancies than people in loving, committed relationships, gay or straight. If you are trying to give a reason why gays must become celibate (and therefore single) this is not it.

Sex is so overated in relationships. Why would someone give up so much for just a few minutes of sexual pleasure?

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There is a lot more to a loving relationship than the sex. It is the anti-gays who can't keep their minds off it.

Besides, what is it gays are giving up?

Then when you die, what are you remembered for -- being gay?

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Remembered by whom?

By family? Gays are sons and grandsons, brothers and cousins, fathers, uncles, and grandfathers, etc. (Likewise for lesbians if you adjust the gender of the relationships.)

By the community? Gays are dedicated teachers, police officers, firefighters, pastors, mayors, etc.

By society/history? Mark Bingham is remembered as one of the heroes of Flight 93. On September 11, 2001, no one knew or cared that he was gay.

There are lists of people who made significant contributions to history, and who happened to be gay. To be honest, some of the listmakers tend to exaggerate the evidence for some of the choices being gay, but if even 10% of the ones on this list were gay, that is still quite a few.

TheFathersDaughter said:

PLEASE JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION.

I don't understand whats so hard. Don't come in here and dodge the question with the petty details. ANSWER IT. Besides, you know what I mean by "mentioned".

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I did. My answer is defined as how the Bible teaches us about marriage and how sin entered the world. In the beginning, God created Man and Women for each other (because Adam was lonely). Eve is Adam's helper. They both sinned and because of this, we as Christians are taught that Satan became the prince of this world. On these principals, we are taught that Jesus came to take this world back from Satan by defeating him through His blood to end the sin-bondage in our lives and give us a way to eternal life by going to the Father through the Son, Jesus.

One reason could explain why homosexuality isn't mentioned much within the bible is because most people were assumed to be hetrosexual.

Leviticus gives us some insight as to what is forbidden in temples and outside of temples. Chapter 18 and 20 describe practices that they shouldn't do inside and outside of temples.

Jesus, Paul, Peter insist that men are to have wives and wives to have husbands, especially if they burn with passion. God relates his people as women and himself as their Husband. Jesus refers to himself as a Husband and his followers as women (even though men were His apostles). So you see, the concept of marriage in the bible is between a man and a women. It could have been easily taught that "Israel/Christians, you are my partner and I am your husband" but it didn't.

-All sexual, marital, stories, and references to marriage are made in relations to a relationship between a man and a women.

Adultery? A breaking of the relationship between a man and a women.
Uniting and Becoming one Flesh? Goes back to Adam and Eve and also the story of how sin entered the world. Has to do with a male-female relationship. We are not taught this concept between people of the same gender, especially two men becoming "one flesh"

Lusting? Originally this applied to men but we all know that lust in general is a sin, so this applies to everyone. The bible uses women as a reference for a man to commit it within their hearts.

Marital respects? Taught that men and women should love each other in a relationship.

Polygamy? Yes, many important people within the bible had many wives, if not just one. Abraham had a wive, Joseph, Jacob, Pharoh, David. But even Paul taught that men should have only one wife.

The story of Ruth centers around a man and the relationship between him and her.

Peter had a wife and so did many of followers of Jesus

Men exchanged natural relations with wives (marriage) to lust for people of the same sex in temples.

Fornication is defined as sexuality before marriage. Since no same-sex marriages existed back in Jesus day and in the times in Israel before Jesus, fornication included homosexuality, because it was an act of sexuality outside of marriage. By my definition of homosexuality, I am referring to a minimum of sex between people of the same gender or acts involving something similar along those lines.

From this website arguing in favour of Same-sex marriage, I find this point deceiving:
"Because modern Christians realize that marriage has nothing to do with procreation".
This is not true, because Christians are taught that in order to procreate, they must marry before having children. Again, this idea goes back to Genesis and many references in the Bible that if we are to burn with passion or have sexual relations, it would be good for a husband to have a wife and a wife to have a husband.

I have provided many reflections and references that I believe the bible teaches and paints a picture about concerning sexual relations and marriage. But if you choose to not believe in what I believe, then fine.

Once again:

"But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough." (2 Corinthians 11:3-4)

"I fear that there may be quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, factions, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder. I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged."
(2 Corinthians 12:20-21)

I believe Scripture teaches that marriage and relationships are a certain way; I will believe that.
Ever since churches began to bless same-sex marriage and Canada legalized it, there has been an explosion of controversy surrounding the subject of Scripture whether it means this or that (concerning same-sex relations), but I hold fast to what we all originally believed it to be. This is my faith, my belief.

MercyBurst said:

It's a wasted life.

Think about how it will be defending a lifestyle that more than half the people in this world don't agree with.

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Do you mean the Jewish lifestyle?



Just because some people choose to hate those who are different, does not mean something is wrong with those who are hated.

At social events, a gay couple is really kind of odd, socially speaking.

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Just because some people choose to hate those who are different, does not mean something is wrong with those who are hated.

At family gatherings, everyone else has children and grandchildren.

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Previously you attempted to justify personal prejudice against gays and lesbians by talking about how many have children…now you are trying to justify personal prejudice against gays and lesbians by pretending they don’t have children.

The physical and mental issues are greater. Life spans are typically shorter.

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A lie told often enough does not become the truth. The lie that somehow gays and lesbians have lessened life expectancies was made up by Paul Cameron of the Family Research Council. This was after he was expelled form the APA for ethics violation, seems he made up data and presented it as facts and then went around misrepresenting the legitimate wrok of other researchers.


The greater question is (I’ll ask once again, but I doubt there will be a real answer) why do Christians feel that it is all right to lie about homosexuals?

Sex is so overated in relationships. Why would someone give up so much for just a few minutes of sexual pleasure?

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Give up what exactly?


Or are you suggesting that it is better for gays and lesbians to lie and pretend to be heterosexuals?
Gee years of false witness and hurting others just because some people have chosen to hate….doesn’t sound like a good trade off to me.

Then when you die, what are you remembered for -- being gay?

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So is it better to die and being remembered as one who justified prejudice?

WHAT CONSEQUENCES ARE THERE?

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Hell.

I appreciate this response from you. Thank you.
You may not realize it, but many of your posts come out that way. I am glad you are making an effort though, as this post indicates, so again thank you.

As far as admittance, first of all, since we all claim to be Christians (excluding the johnny come latelys), there should be absolutely no need to speculate outside of what God said, because He did say it throughout His Word, AS IF people need to know His Word, to know it is wrong. Why do you think so many homosexuals want to kill themselves? Or why many do? Because they KNOW it is wrong. But many don't know that they can be set free.
He whom the Son sets free is free indeed.

And people can try to blame it on society and on Christians, and everyone who stands their ground against it, but we are NOT the problem any more than we are a problem to someone who drinks and drives.

They know it is wrong from the moment they acknowledge that they are attracted to the same sex and they don't need feedback from society to feel like killing themselves. It is a battle within themselves. One that is aided by the enemy of our souls. Satan is real whether people want to scoff at his existence or not. He tempted Jesus on the mount of temptation. Don't think he won't tempt you. (in general..me, you, us)

Just as one person recently wrote about their friend. He never even reached out for help. But he was a tortured young man within, so much so that he took his own life...God have mercy.

There are two ways a person can go once they are tortured by something they know is sin in their lives that they feel they have no control over. They can come to Jesus and receive deliverance and healing OR they can rebel.

Some people try to do both, but that plan doesn't work for the rest of us, and it isn't going to work for them either. Jesus said, we cannot serve two masters, or we will love the one and hate the other.

It is apparent who hates what in this forum even though all claim to love Jesus.

TheFathersDaughter said:

I apologize if you think I have a tone. But I don't. I am somewhat irriatated that no one is staying on topic or answering the question, just giving roundabout responses to try to avoid admittance.

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Why do you think so many homosexuals want to kill themselves? Or why many do? Because they KNOW it is wrong. But many don't know that they can be set free.

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Or because they're told, over and over again, that they're evil and there's no hope for them to reach heaven unless they become genuinely straight, because they're abominations that God doesn't approve of, because part of His creation suddenly isn't good any more, and they must become exactly like we are, or go to hell...

Maybe a lot of them are told they're worthless subhuman things all their life and they see no way to escape the hatred of humanity except for suicide, in the faint hopes that, if they can't be loved here, and if God can't accept them as gay, then maybe they can just cease to be.

It's not the people who simply stand their ground that are the problem. It's the people who have a Fred-Phelps like attitude that are, and unfortunately, many of them develop that attitude when it turns out their child is gay, despite praying daily for 20+ years to become straight (According to an anecdote from one of my closest friends, who happens to be a celibate homosexual and is less likely to commit suicide since she met someone who doesn't beat her over the head all the time about how "evil" and "subhuman" she is).

Thank you for proving my point. (actually a couple of my points)


As I said......

People can try to blame it on society and on Christians, and everyone who stands their ground against it, but we are NOT the problem any more than we are a problem to someone who drinks and drives.

They know it is wrong from the moment they acknowledge that they are attracted to the same sex and they don't need feedback from society to feel like killing themselves. It is a battle within themselves. One that is aided by the enemy of our souls. Satan is real whether people want to scoff at his existence or not. He tempted Jesus on the mount of temptation. Don't think he won't tempt you. (in general..me, you, us)

Just as one person recently wrote about their friend. He never even reached out for help. But he was a tortured young man within, so much so that he took his own life...God have mercy.

There are two ways a person can go once they are tortured by something they know is sin in their lives that they feel they have no control over. They can come to Jesus and receive deliverance and healing OR they can rebel.

Some people try to do both, but that plan doesn't work for the rest of us, and it isn't going to work for them either. Jesus said, we cannot serve two masters, or we will love the one and hate the other.

It is apparent who hates what in this forum even though all claim to love Jesus.

AngelusSax said:

Or because they're told, over and over again, that they're evil and there's no hope for them to reach heaven unless they become genuinely straight, because they're abominations that God doesn't approve of, because part of His creation suddenly isn't good any more, and they must become exactly like we are, or go to hell...

Maybe a lot of them are told they're worthless subhuman things all their life and they see no way to escape the hatred of humanity except for suicide, in the faint hopes that, if they can't be loved here, and if God can't accept them as gay, then maybe they can just cease to be.

It's not the people who simply stand their ground that are the problem. It's the people who have a Fred-Phelps like attitude that are, and unfortunately, many of them develop that attitude when it turns out their child is gay, despite praying daily for 20+ years to become straight (According to an anecdote from one of my closest friends, who happens to be a celibate homosexual and is less likely to commit suicide since she met someone who doesn't beat her over the head all the time about how "evil" and "subhuman" she is).

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