Girl Kissing Catholic Media Priest becomes Episcopal

[boswd]

Don't know which denom you are talking about.. For it is not what goes into the body that makes you unclean but what comes out of the mouth. For the Kingdom of God is not in food or drink..

Assemblies of God, which aren't some obscure denomination have this rule, at least the one's my Inlaws belong to. All member's have to sign a membership charter a contract if you will that they must abstain from Alcohol. even one drop.
So I ask again, if a Preacher has a glass of wine, is caught and thrown out but goes to another Christian Church that does not have the same rules, rules of men, how is this different.
You pose double standards.

 

[JacksLadder]

Why should they even be asked to do this? Why should a man make a vow?

If I remember correctly one reason was because of married priests making the church a family business which brought about corruption so one way to correct it was to make all priests take a vow of celibacy(which is always considered a good thing by all Christians).

 

[boswd]

and also to follow Paul as a role model.

 

[Korah]

I wish him well, but what does the Bible say about making a vow to God?

It says not to swear at all.
"You have heard how it was said to our ancestors, You must not break your oath, but must fulfil your oaths to the Lord. But I say this to you, do not swear at all, either by heaven [Matthew's euphemism for "God"]" or anything.
Matthew 5:34, NJB, a Catholic translation.

 

[MamaZ]

Assemblies of God, which aren't some obscure denomination have this rule, at least the one's my Inlaws belong to. All member's have to sign a membership charter a contract if you will that they must abstain from Alcohol. even one drop.
So I ask again, if a Preacher has a glass of wine, is caught and thrown out but goes to another Christian Church that does not have the same rules, rules of men, how is this different.
You pose double standards.

I am not a member of the AOG and really don't know what they teach. If this being the case then they need to stop putting mens rules over the scripture. For the kingdom of God is not in food or drink.. I do not follow after a denomination but after Christ.

 

[MamaZ]

If I remember correctly one reason was because of married priests making the church a family business which brought about corruption so one way to correct it was to make all priests take a vow of celibacy(which is always considered a good thing by all Christians).

How about doing as scripture says instead of posing man made rules for all? I am not sure about what you mean a family business actually. You will have to elaborate..

 

[MamaZ]

and also to follow Paul as a role model.

Why not follow Peter as a role model since you all believe the church was built on him? He was married.

 

[Yardstick]

How about doing as scripture says instead of posing man made rules for all? I am not sure about what you mean a family business actually. You will have to elaborate..

What he is saying about family business is that priests began to pass on church property to their children when they died. So the Church began to require celibacy to avoid this practice from happening. It also created a flexible priesthood that could be moved around based on the needs of the church.

Of course it was not unheard of for priests to take on mistresses, but because any children would be illegitimate, so the church property was still protected.


As a catholic who has become Episcopal I welcome Father Cutie into the Church. I think a vow of celibacy is great for those called to it. But to automatically link the calling of celibacy with that of the priesthood seems like an error to me.

 

[bbbbbbb]

and also to follow Paul as a role model.

Why not follow Peter as a role model? After all, he was married and suffered no consequences as a result. In fact, if I am not mistaken, a certain denomination built a great big church on top of his (alleged) corpse.

 

[bbbbbbb]

What he is saying about family business is that priests began to pass on church property to their children when they died. So the Church began to require celibacy to avoid this practice from happening. It also created a flexible priesthood that could be moved around based on the needs of the church.

Of course it was not unheard of for priests to take on mistresses, but because any children would be illegitimate, so the church property was still protected.


As a catholic who has become Episcopal I welcome Father Cutie into the Church. I think a vow of celibacy is great for those called to it. But to automatically link the calling of celibacy with that of the priesthood seems like an error to me.

The EOC and OOC, which are the same age as the RCC never had this problem of the "family business." I think this is just one of many excuses for enforced celibacy. BTW, both the EOC and OOC do allow celibacy but do not require it.

 

[MamaZ]

So it is better to sin in adultry and fornication and create children out of wedlock? Just to save material things? Where is Christ in this thinking? For nothing on this earth is ours. IT is all Gods..

 

[namericanboy]

and also to follow Paul as a role model.

Kinda ironic with their main man Peter being married..

 

[namericanboy]

Amen...

 

[E.C.]

Well, then you would have to explain why we also have a shortage of Deacons (who are not called to celibacy).

That is because in the Roman Church a deacon is not all that, well, "important" when it comes to worship because they do not do much in the Roman Church's mass.

In the Orthodox Church if there is no deacon than one of the litanies are removed and the Gospel is read in front of the iconostasis instead of in the center of the nave. A few other small things like that as well, but that is not pertinent to the thread.

The shortage of priests has far more to do with the secularization of Western culture than it does with the discipline of priestly celibacy. Sure, there might be an increase in those applying for the priesthood if the Church relaxed that requirement, but the real problem behind the shortage lies much deeper, imo.

Think of it this way...back a century ago there was no shortage of priests. Right? But back then the Church still required celibacy (in the Roman Rite) - just like now. So what has changed? Well...our CULTURE has changed. It is now more secular. And what does a more secular culture bring with it? A whole host of problems and ills. The problem is not a celibate priesthood - rather - the problem is a culture that is seduced by sex (sex is a good thing and a gift given to us by God) to the degree where it no longer values the benefit of putting it aside for another good (celibacy and self-sacrifice).

The solution isn't putting a band-aid on the problem (i.e., relaxing the celibacy discipline), but rather finding a real solution (i.e., combating against secularization of our culture).

God's Peace,

NewMan

I would say Vatican II opened the door for secularization in that regard more than anything.

Assemblies of God, which aren't some obscure denomination have this rule, at least the one's my Inlaws belong to. All member's have to sign a membership charter a contract if you will that they must abstain from Alcohol. even one drop.
So I ask again, if a Preacher has a glass of wine, is caught and thrown out but goes to another Christian Church that does not have the same rules, rules of men, how is this different.
You pose double standards.

What? You have to sign a contract to be a member of a congregation?

What kind of heretics would think of such a thing? Christ Himself made alcohol for crying out loud!

The EOC and OOC, which are the same age as the RCC never had this problem of the "family business." I think this is just one of many excuses for enforced celibacy. BTW, both the EOC and OOC do allow celibacy but do not require it.

That is because we have not had priests trying to send church property to their sons instead of leaving it for the next priest

The problem that the West had was that the local parish church would have a house for their priest and his family. Many priests tried to leave that house (which was legally regarded as church property) to their heirs in their wills. Well, you can't really bequeath something you don't own, can you? The Roman Church found the solution by requiring clerical celibacy.

No family = no problems.


Most Orthodox priests are married and have families. I have only met three Orthodox priests in my life that were not married. Two were widowers and the third is an abbot of a small monastery in the Puget Sound.

 

[boswd]

That is because in the Roman Church a deacon is not all that, well, "important" when it comes to worship because they do not do much in the Roman Church's mass.

In the Orthodox Church if there is no deacon than one of the litanies are removed and the Gospel is read in front of the iconostasis instead of in the center of the nave. A few other small things like that as well, but that is not pertinent to the thread.


I would say Vatican II opened the door for secularization in that regard more than anything.




What? You have to sign a contract to be a member of a congregation?

What kind of heretics would think of such a thing? Christ Himself made alcohol for crying out loud!

Yeah it's part of their Position Papers or doctrines. According to them Alcohol is from Satan!

http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Position_Papers/pp_downloads/pp_4187_abstinence.pdf


That is because we have not had priests trying to send church property to their sons instead of leaving it for the next priest

The problem that the West had was that the local parish church would have a house for their priest and his family. Many priests tried to leave that house (which was legally regarded as church property) to their heirs in their wills. Well, you can't really bequeath something you don't own, can you? The Roman Church found the solution by requiring clerical celibacy.

No family = no problems.


Most Orthodox priests are married and have families. I have only met three Orthodox priests in my life that were not married. Two were widowers and the third is an abbot of a small monastery in the Puget Sound.

.