Gift of Discernment question

[NothingIsImpossible]

Wasn't there some bishop or other named Warlock? or maybe it was spelt with an 'o': Worlock?

Yep Warlock is also a X-Men if I recall. And there happens to be a mutant named Bishop too.

 

[Left]

I'd tell a story about the time I dated a (real, actual) witch, but this isn't the place for it. Ask me in one of the Singles threads some time.

I have felt the things NothingIsImpossible has mentioned before though - even as a nonChristian.

 

[friend of]

more to the point

Discernment, Gift of

 

[faroukfarouk]

Yep Warlock is also a X-Men if I recall. And there happens to be a mutant named Bishop too.

Oh okay!

 

[Left]

Okay let's stay on the topic of my original 4 posts, or I am liable to start going off-topic myself and talking about anything.

 

[Widlast]

Hopefully this thread won't be considered too off-the-wall, but I was wondering... for Christians with the Gift of Discernment, who can actually see spirits, do they see a lot of bad spirits hanging around devout Atheists and Agnostics?

The gift of "discernment of spirits" is the God given ability to determine the nature and character of the being that you happen to be concerned with at the time. i.e. you can tell an evil man is evil and why without asking him.
Has nothing to do with "spirits" in particular.

 

[Widlast]

Wasn't there some bishop or other named Warlock? or maybe it was spelt with an 'o': Worlock?

A male witch is just a male witch. None of the pagans take the term warlock seriously. (like wizard, there are no "wizards").

 

[SkyWriting]

Hopefully this thread won't be considered too off-the-wall, but I was wondering... for Christians with the Gift of Discernment, who can actually see spirits, do they see a lot of bad spirits hanging around devout Atheists and Agnostics?

I'm never known anyone with that much vision either.
And I've known a saint or two.

 

[tadoflamb]

Hopefully this thread won't be considered too off-the-wall, but I was wondering... for Christians with the Gift of Discernment, who can actually see spirits, do they see a lot of bad spirits hanging around devout Atheists and Agnostics?

I was in a bible study with a charismatic Catholic woman who said she had seen bad spirits trying to bug Catholics at mass and then witnessing them sort of shrugging them off. It was in this same bible study that I had spirits whispering in my ear. It scared the hell out of me.

I talked to my pastor afterward about what had happened and he suggested I might have the gift to discern spirits. The thing is, if you can discern the good ones, you can also discern the bad ones and I don't like things whispering stuff in my ears, so I haven't cultivated the gift if I indeed have it.

As someone else stated 1 John tells us how to test the spirits. One time I was repeatedly being possessed by some horrible thought. I suspected it might be a bad spirit, so I asked it, "Did Jesus come in the flesh?" There was a large, wet explosion (sort of like Ghostbusters) and whatever was bugging me went away. I can't even remember what kind of thought the thing was pestering me with.

Similar to what others have described, I work on a bells and buzzers type system. Truth has a ring to it while that which comes from the other side clangs in my ears. It seems to have worked out pretty well to this point. I also recently asked a friend what he knew about the gift of discernment and he shared these videos with me. I'll share them with you. I have only listened to the first two, but I'm already found them helpful.

I may or may not start a similar thread in the Catholic forum, though I haven't yet discerned if I should.

 

[Serving Zion]

Hopefully this thread won't be considered too off-the-wall, but I was wondering... for Christians with the Gift of Discernment, who can actually see spirits, do they see a lot of bad spirits hanging around devout Atheists and Agnostics?

Spirits are not physical to be seen, per-se (for spectators' benefit, I know you and I are already on the same page). I would rather say that we recognise spirits.

Think of the meaning behind the expression: "the spirit of the season". It means in the case of Christmas, to be of good cheer, jolly, generous etc.

In Christian terms, to speak of angels/demons and Christ, these are real people who we may encounter besides the human through whom they may present. In cases where spirits are possessing a human as a vessel, it is the spirit that speaks and animates the body, while communication is the mechanism for spirits to impact people. So, whether holy or unholy spirit coming and going in that one, it is the same alphabet and vocabulary being used. The host (human) often doesn't perceive at all, when the spirit is speaking through them (though sometimes we do). Often, an intense conversation with a spirit-possessed person, they will not remember. Usually they do though.

Spiritual warriors live dangerously. Evil spirits are strategic toward our destruction. They may provoke us to act questionably, and then imprint our behaviour into the memory of their vessel such that negative misrepresentation occurs. It seems likely to be part of why Jesus never permitted them to speak.

An interesting statement was made today as a couple of missionaries visited me. He said "We all have the two natures within us. We all have The Holy Spirit". This was especially interesting to me, because it really rang true with something I wrote elsewhere last night. This scripture is particularly central:

"God is love. He who stays in love stays in God, and God in him". 1 John 4:16.

So, when someone is acting to us in love, he is a reliable host for The Holy Spirit. Conversely, when someone is acting to us in sin (eg, pride, jealousy, anger etc), they are more of a vessel for the unholy spirits than The Holy Spirit. Our actions are useful to trigger this in others. If we offend that one by transgressing them, we have given legal right (according to our transgression of God's law) for them to resent us. This gives the foothold for the devil (Ephesians 4:26-27). Conversely, when we turn the other cheek, it gives legal right for The Holy Spirit to act in conviction upon them, and if we do so with ready forgiveness, they can be motivated to repent and thus become healed - becoming a vessel again suitable for The Holy Spirit.

Hurt and resentment is thus the key. Then, in this way, we are able to deliberately drive out demons simply by acting in love. They are crafty and do not respect the law of God (as the holy ones do), so do not be surprised that evil spirits appear before we have triggered that one's resentment. They are desperate to destroy us, because God is with us as we are opposing their place in the world.

.. So, as for your question of Agnostic and Atheist people goes, I say not necessarily. Underneath all of this, is fundamental law of love. Atheists and Agnostics are capable of loving (therefore forgiving, not resenting), and thus being useful vessels for The Holy Spirit (John 3:8, Romans 7:9). When you look at the criteria for salvation described by Jesus in Matthew 25, it is not our beliefs that determines our blessing or curse, but it is our love. Jesus drafts us sheep and goat upon the way we treat others (therefore, do we respect the spirit of Christ that is in them - Matthew 25:40-45). Also consider John 10:16, because a belief is only as good as the fruit it produces, and ultimately paradise requires love.

.. It's a lot to take in. It might be a bit daunting too, but don't be afraid! Remember that Jesus loves you more than you can imagine, He is on your side, and He has been raised above all the heavens to be at God's right hand. If God is for us, who can be against us?

Regarding your MD's, indeed, use wisdom. Doctors are naturally inclined toward compassion! - If you perceive some conflict, then pray about it, but remember Romans 13:1-5. God wants to set us free from such crippling conditions and have us in full vitality of health, to be a real glorious example of His salvation! Most mental conditions can be healed by counselling (ie, constructive understanding - John 14:16-17, Isaiah 9:6), or it's symptoms can often be managed (eg by medication).

 

[Itsahappyday]

Hello

I was going to respond originally with details of my experiences with discernment of Spirits but I will make a statement instead of giving personal tales.

Those in whom the Lord operates with this gift don't control it. It is as the Lord wills and as He reveals it. You can't stare at someone to try to see anything. When the Lord opens ones eyes and you "see in the spirit " , it's unexpected.

Usually a person with this gift if they are like me can sometimes sense physically, see in the eyes and even hear when a person speaks if they are yielding to the wrong spirit.

A person with this gift will at times see the glow if the Holy Spirit/glory of God superimposed on people's faces or in their eyes of those who are true believers.

The purpose of this is at times for prayer and intercession for the person and to protect me from being super naive with the wrong people. At times I've asked the Lord if He wants me to speak to the person about what is shown to me, then for Him to open the door for me to speak. Otherwise I don't go around spreading what I see for all to hear.

I believe that Lord reveals things if He knows you can be trusted to keep them private and not be a blabber mouth.

Christians can yield to the wrong spirit too but in Christ they have the freedom to choose which spirit to yield to and are not slaves to sin, whereas unbelievers are slaves to sin and have no authority over wrong ungodly spirits

So about your original question, there is something different in the countenance of a true believer compared to one who doesn't believe that I think even someone born-again who has not operated in this gift can sense or see something , but maybe i might see it more cause the Lord allows me to be strong in this gifting and also I will see it if He permits me to see it.

 

[MayMcFlurry]

Spirits are everywhere... everywhere. It's good most people are spiritually blind.

 

[AlexDTX]

more to the point

Discernment, Gift of

I put no stock in LDS literature.

 

[AlexDTX]

This has been one of the best threads I have read. Thank you everyone for contributing your insights. There is much food for thought written here.

 

[visionary]

Yes, the gift of discernment can mean that you see the spirit world. Not always, but it is one of the gifts. Just because someone labels themselves as atheist or otherwise doesn't mean that they are hounded by evil spirits. There are many spirits, from the smoking habit, to food cravings, to the more notable ones that get the headlines.

 

[Victor E.]

Short answer: Yes. I believe it's entirely possible. Usually, I would think it's more with all the senses EXCEPT with your physical eyes (unless you count demonic possession/oppression as seeing the demon itself, which I can't say is wrong, per se) but I do personally know some who have made this claim, having seen into the spiritual realm myself, I would not quickly call them a liar. There is a provision within Scripture for such a thing to be so (physically seeing and interacting with angels/seeing demons)

The gift of discernment is to be exercised more so within the Church body than outside the body. When ministering to 'atheists' or 'agnostics' there is little to no need to exercise it (most are pretty down to earth, morally upright, and honest).

There is a difference between discernment and spiritual discernment. One is knowledge of what's 'right' and what's 'wrong' by the moral compass that everyone has intuitively (our conscience). The gift of spiritual discernment is for edification for within the Church body to have knowledge of what's 'right' from what's 'almost right' because Satan and his servants have a way of infiltrating pious individuals who can play the part (perhaps even with pure intentions) but are either fake or very misguided to the core of their heart and mind. There are some Charlatans/False prophets/False teachers who really only care about their own wealth/status/attention/number of followers/public image and various other sensual passions they are enslaved by, although they will deny it in the name of 'grace' 'love' and 'forgiveness'.

Spiritual manifestation has very little relevance to spiritual maturity, it does not necessarily mean that God approves of their methods or their conduct, in fact, it is a dangerous place to be when it's used as a measuring stick for whether or not their heart is right before Him.

"The heart is more deceitful than all else
And is desperately sick;
Who can understand it?

“I, the LORD, search the heart,
I test the mind,
Even to give to each man according to his ways,
According to the results of his deeds." Jeremiah 17:9-10

The gift of spiritual discernment is usually accompanied by an overload of information based on the disciple's surroundings/company and it is off of that that we listen to God's voice of counsel and take the appropriate action. It is entirely guided by wisdom that comes from the obedience to Christ's commandments via field experience and devout and independent study of the Word in the Spirit. It is not something you learn from seminary or theology school, contrary to popular belief. This is why no one who has been trying to make any kind of money off of the gospel has been given it. That weeds out quite a lot of people, eh? There is Logos (the Word) and there is Rhema (the living Word). This gift is becoming more and more important as we approach deeper into the end times. The charismatic radical left-wing is doing some very 'spiritual' 'radical' and...unscriptural things due to an insatiable appetite of spiritual lust. Very unhealthy, would not recommend. That is not spiritual, it is carnal to seek something for the sake of the 'sign' in my humble opinion although signs do FOLLOW for those who believe. I hope this has helped.

 

[Jim Langston]

Someone in these forums said he could levitate by meditating. I wouldn't believe everything you read here.

Of course you don't. Then you would have to believe Jesus was telling the truth when He said if you have but the faith of a mustard seed you can move mountains.

I was watching a documentary from an atheist trying to disprove Christianity and all religions. At the end he made the statement "no one can do anything with their mind that I can't do with mine". You two seem to be in the same camp.

If the reader could not tell, I am the one who learned to levitate using faith.

 

[Left]

This thread just got all sorts of interesting.

(I'm staying neutral on the whole levitation thing and not endorsing it or dismissing it.)

 

[Jim Langston]

I actually believe that is possible... but not of God.

Why does everyone play with blasphamy of the holy spirit, that is, claiming something from the Holy Spirit is from the devil?

What part of Matthew 17:20 do you disbelieve? "He replied, "Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.""

So, what parts of the bible do you choose to believe and which parts don't you? Since you do not believe this, you can not do it, so you claim others can't either because, why? No one can do with their minds what you can't do with yours?

Oh ye of little faith.

 

[MayMcFlurry]

Isn't levitation usually demonic? Like when the demons are throwing the person's body to the ceiling and stuff???