Giant Skeletons

[Strathos]

I saw this mentioned recently and I have definitely heard of this idea before, so I figured I might as well make a thread on it.

The way the story goes is that scientists (presumably paleontologists) have discovered many examples of fossil remains of giant humanoids, which are presumably the Nephilim as mentioned in the Old Testament (Genesis 6:4 et al.) These discoveries were never disclosed and they all sit stored in a warehouse somewhere like in the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark, due to some kind of worldwide deception.

Obviously such a large, implausible, and nonsensical conspiracy theory immediately triggers my skepticism. There is no evidence for these supposed skeletons apart from obviously photoshopped pictures. But many people still believe this, so let's examine it further.

What are Nephilim?

The Bible isn't exactly clear on this. Many translations call them giants, but the etymology of the original Hebrew term is unknown. It is suggested that the word comes from the Hebrew term meaning 'to fall', hence fallen angels. Personally I don't see why fallen angels would appear as physically larger versions of flesh and blood humans. There are ideas that they are actually angel-human hybrids, but again, I don't see why such a being would have the appearance of a giant human.

Would there be skeletons?

Let's assume for a moment that Nephilim were physical creatures that left skeletons, and those skeletons would look like gigantic human skeletons.

These giants are said to have perished in the flood of Noah. Creationists who argue for a literal global flood, however, have to address the fact that such a flood would leave a uniform layer of sediment worldwide, which does not exist. Arguments are often made saying that God 'cleaned up after Himself' or that there was a change in the very nature of existence that removed all of the physical evidence of the flood. So why wouldn't it remove these skeletons as well? Seems counterproductive. The geologic column shows clear succession of creatures separated by the eras they lived in. There aren't rabbits in the Cambrian strata, as a classic example. The vast majority of fossils also died from other causes than a flood, as such things like footprints, nests, burrows, eggs, etc. are all found in natural positions, not chaotically scrambled or wiped away like a flood would cause. If there really is some kind of supernatural explanation for this that isn't what it appears to be, then why would these giant skeletons be the exception? Wouldn't they be found and classified as an extinct species that fit somewhere into the known evolutionary timescale?

Gigantopithecus

This is the largest ape species known, which became extinct some 300,000 years ago. Paleontologists have so far only found teeth and mandibles of these creatures, never full skeletons. But reconstructions estimate that they could have been around 12 feet tall, and a full Gigantopithecus skeleton might look a lot like a 'giant'. So if such skeletons really have been discovered, why haven't paleontologists simply classified them as Gigantopithecus, or some other similar extinct ape? Instead, the conspiracy alleges that they hide all evidence of their existence (except, of course, for all of the 'totally real' photos floating around the internet.)

Creationists often make claims about hominid fossils, saying that Australopithecines are just apes that didn't walk upright, and Neanderthals are just humans with bone diseases. In other words, they claim that paleontologists are either misidentifying or deliberately lying about these fossils. If this really was the case, why wouldn't they do the same for these supposed giant skeletons? Such findings would give any scientist who discovered them great fame, prestige, and wealth. Even if you think the entire field of paleontology is all part of one big conspiracy, wouldn't it make more sense for them to display these skeletons in museums and give a 'scientific' explanation, rather than just hide them and pretend they don't exist?

I think it's safe to say that such things have never been found and are not being hidden. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean that they never existed...

 

[Ophiolite]

It is certainly a big bone of contention in anthropology!

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Creationists who argue for a literal global flood, however, have to address the fact that such a flood would leave a uniform layer of sediment worldwide, which does not exist.

No, it's been proved quite soundly that catastrophic floods produce stratification, with many layers. One flood never produces just one layer. Nor would it be uniform over the whole globe, as though sediment had time to travel the world many times over, until it reached homogeneity.

 

[Ophiolite]

No, it's been proved quite soundly that catastrophic floods produce stratification, with many layers. One flood never produces just one layer.

But they do not produce thousands and tens of thousands of layers, especially when such layers contain suites of features identifying a wide range of depositional environments, only a few of which are flood associated.
There is no evidence for a global flood. Claims to the contrary can only be due to inadequate knowledge, or deliberate deceit. I can direct you to textbooks and resources to address the former.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Simple scaling calculations would make a population of 'naturally' 12ft tall people rather unlikely, as (scaling dimensions equally) volume - and so weight - scales with the cube of height. So either they would need to be very thin and weak in bone and muscle, or have very thick bones and large muscles making them clumsy, slow, and inefficient.

Of course, if they were magical or supernatural, they could be as big as you like without any scaling issues.

 

[Rachel20]

These giants are said to have perished in the flood of Noah.

They reappeared after the flood as well. There was Og, Goliath, etc...

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4

And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight. Numbers 13:33

 

[essentialsaltes]

I predict this will be as valuable a contribution to this thread as any provided by supporters of the idea that there is a conspiracy to hide giant skeletons.

 

[Shemjaza]

They reappeared after the flood as well. There was Og, Goliath, etc...

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4

And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight. Numbers 13:33

I believe our own AV1611VET subscribes to the idea that at least some of Noah and co's wives had Nephilim blood so the giant trait could come back after the flood.

Some conspiracy theory naratives have added in that Nimrod of Babylon had black magic/genetic engineering that let him re activate the giant trait. (One of the explanations for heathen demigods like Gilgamesh and Hercules).

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

I believe our own AV1611VET subscribes to the idea that at least some of Noah and co's wives had Nephilim blood so the giant trait could come back after the flood.

About as sensible as saying Noah had magical fertility drugs on Ark to keep the population count up and someone accidentally mixed it with breakfast porridge and got rowdy with nearest T- Rex with predictable consequences.

 

[Shemjaza]

About as sensible as saying Noah had magical fertility drugs on Ark to keep the population count up and someone accidentally mixed it with breakfast porridge and got rowdy with nearest T- Rex with predictable consequences.

Biblical fan fiction favoured by limited sects or cults is older then Christianity itself.

 

[Rachel20]

I believe our own AV1611VET subscribes to the idea that at least some of Noah and co's wives had Nephilim blood so the giant trait could come back after the flood.

Some conspiracy theory naratives have added in that Nimrod of Babylon had black magic/genetic engineering that let him re activate the giant trait. (One of the explanations for heathen demigods like Gilgamesh and Hercules).

Yes, I've heard similar commentaries. I've thought myself at times they were the basis for the demigods of ancient religions.

 

[loveofourlord]

No, it's been proved quite soundly that catastrophic floods produce stratification, with many layers. One flood never produces just one layer. Nor would it be uniform over the whole globe, as though sediment had time to travel the world many times over, until it reached homogeneity.

what at best happens is you get hyrdological sorting with heavy on bottom light on top, and it's not layers it's a gradient there is a huge difference. What you don't get is hoodoo that are impossible in a flood.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Plutarch tells us that Sertorius dug up the burial mound of Antaeus, a supposed giant, in Tingis in 81 BC. He did this because he did not believe their story, but to the Romans' great surprise, they found a giant skull and longbones which they reburied with honours.

Likewise other Greek historians tell of the discovery now and then, of the bones of giants and cyclops - often ascribed to ancient heroes or figures of myth, and reburied in graves or monuments. Archaeologists actually found the long bone of a Woolly Rhinoceros so interred on the acropolis of Nichoria.

The ancients found the bones of giants, perhaps leading to or supporting tales of them. It has been suggested the cyclops gets its one big eye from the central hole of a mammoth skull. Today we consider these likely the remains of ice age megafauna, but I can see how people can interpret such accounts at face value.

 

[Childofgodharrison]

I saw this mentioned recently and I have definitely heard of this idea before, so I figured I might as well make a thread on it.

The way the story goes is that scientists (presumably paleontologists) have discovered many examples of fossil remains of giant humanoids, which are presumably the Nephilim as mentioned in the Old Testament (Genesis 6:4 et al.) These discoveries were never disclosed and they all sit stored in a warehouse somewhere like in the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark, due to some kind of worldwide deception.

Obviously such a large, implausible, and nonsensical conspiracy theory immediately triggers my skepticism. There is no evidence for these supposed skeletons apart from obviously photoshopped pictures. But many people still believe this, so let's examine it further.

What are Nephilim?

The Bible isn't exactly clear on this. Many translations call them giants, but the etymology of the original Hebrew term is unknown. It is suggested that the word comes from the Hebrew term meaning 'to fall', hence fallen angels. Personally I don't see why fallen angels would appear as physically larger versions of flesh and blood humans. There are ideas that they are actually angel-human hybrids, but again, I don't see why such a being would have the appearance of a giant human.

Would there be skeletons?

Let's assume for a moment that Nephilim were physical creatures that left skeletons, and those skeletons would look like gigantic human skeletons.

These giants are said to have perished in the flood of Noah. Creationists who argue for a literal global flood, however, have to address the fact that such a flood would leave a uniform layer of sediment worldwide, which does not exist. Arguments are often made saying that God 'cleaned up after Himself' or that there was a change in the very nature of existence that removed all of the physical evidence of the flood. So why wouldn't it remove these skeletons as well? Seems counterproductive. The geologic column shows clear succession of creatures separated by the eras they lived in. There aren't rabbits in the Cambrian strata, as a classic example. The vast majority of fossils also died from other causes than a flood, as such things like footprints, nests, burrows, eggs, etc. are all found in natural positions, not chaotically scrambled or wiped away like a flood would cause. If there really is some kind of supernatural explanation for this that isn't what it appears to be, then why would these giant skeletons be the exception? Wouldn't they be found and classified as an extinct species that fit somewhere into the known evolutionary timescale?

Gigantopithecus

This is the largest ape species known, which became extinct some 300,000 years ago. Paleontologists have so far only found teeth and mandibles of these creatures, never full skeletons. But reconstructions estimate that they could have been around 12 feet tall, and a full Gigantopithecus skeleton might look a lot like a 'giant'. So if such skeletons really have been discovered, why haven't paleontologists simply classified them as Gigantopithecus, or some other similar extinct ape? Instead, the conspiracy alleges that they hide all evidence of their existence (except, of course, for all of the 'totally real' photos floating around the internet.)

Creationists often make claims about hominid fossils, saying that Australopithecines are just apes that didn't walk upright, and Neanderthals are just humans with bone diseases. In other words, they claim that paleontologists are either misidentifying or deliberately lying about these fossils. If this really was the case, why wouldn't they do the same for these supposed giant skeletons? Such findings would give any scientist who discovered them great fame, prestige, and wealth. Even if you think the entire field of paleontology is all part of one big conspiracy, wouldn't it make more sense for them to display these skeletons in museums and give a 'scientific' explanation, rather than just hide them and pretend they don't exist?

I think it's safe to say that such things have never been found and are not being hidden. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean that they never existed...

There were very big people in the time of Noah. There were big animals. The so called dinosaurs. That's the reason that Noah was told to take two of each and animals onto the ark. The dna of the animals and people had been compromised and changed. They had to be destroyed. The angels who left there domain in heaven came and mated with human women and brought forth giants. They also interfered with the animals dna.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

There were very big people in the time of Noah. There were big animals. The so called dinosaurs.

If they were only "so called dinosaurs", what were they in reality?

That's the reason that Noah was told to take two of each and animals onto the ark. The dna of the animals and people had been compromised and changed. They had to be destroyed. The angels who left there domain in heaven came and mated with human women and brought forth giants. They also interfered with the animals dna.

If Noah took animals with "compromised" dna and allow them to breed, wouldn't they still have "compromised" dna? If not, how did they "uncompromise" their dna? If they continued to have "compromised" dna what was the point of saving them?

 

[Childofgodharrison]

If they were only "so called dinosaurs", what were they in reality?

If Noah took animals with "compromised" dna and allow them to breed, wouldn't they still have "compromised" dna? If not, how did they "uncompromise" their dna? If they continued to have "compromised" dna what was the point of saving them?

They called some of them dinosaurs, they were hybrid animals crossed with lizards, birds and other animals. The animals Noah took were not compromised. They were the original animals that God created. God started over with the originals.

 

[Ophiolite]

They called some of them dinosaurs, they were hybrid animals crossed with lizards, birds and other animals. The animals Noah took were not compromised. They were the original animals that God created. God started over with the originals.

Would you direct me to the relevant Scripture where this is explained?

 

[Lost4words]

The only giant human skeletons found have been on youtube with the help of photoshop!

 

[loveofourlord]

The only giant human skeletons found have been on youtube with the help of photoshop!

To be fair another type of giant skeleton was a form of leaving the skeleton laid out with the ligimants and such removed so the skeleton looks bigger then it would have been. Heard some cultures practiced this in the past.

 

[Childofgodharrison]

Ask yourself why would God destroy the whole world, Something bad had to have happened for him to do that.

Would you direct me to the relevant Scripture where this is explained?

Deut. 2:20 20 (That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims;
4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.