Ghosts

brian57 · Apr 7, 2018

akaDaScribe said:
Do you know people who have had positive experiences? People who saw ghosts of the recently dead who are saying goodbye?

Obviously my post above states that I do not. Except for a friend who stayed at my place for a while after his marriage separation. From his bed room I had heard him yelling help , when I opened his door I saw him upside down and smashing into the wall , Something had picked him up and thrown him. When I asked him what he thought was happening he said it must be uncle jack because he passed away last year and he always hated me. Now we need to remember that that was only his opinion but he really didn't know , that's just all he come up with.

ronandcarol · Apr 7, 2018

akaDaScribe said:
Are there ghosts?

I know that it says once to die then to Judgement, but judgement day is after the 1000 year reign. So what does that really mean?
I'm curious if anyone has done in depth Biblical research on this. I've known too many people who are not telling stories for gain, just people I've met along the way, who have had varying degrees of encounters. I think we all have.
Do you think every single one was a demon?
I haven't thoroughly researched it and was wondering if anyone else has.

The Bible clearly states that the world we live in is the playground of satan. He is the prince of this world, (although Jesus is the righteous King of Kings and Lord of Lords), satan is in charge of this earthly domain. And he has 1/3 of all the angels as his helpers to corrupt as many people as they can. So you can rightly know that there are 'demons' in this world trying to get in your head. BUT, the Bible is also clear on the armour that God provides us to deflect those fiery arrows that satan is shooting. AND, besides all of that Armour that God provides, He also will give all believers the Holy Spirit to keep and protect them. It states that He who is in us is greater than he who is in the world!
ronandcarol

Shempster · Apr 7, 2018

Dave G. said:
He could but there is nothing in scripture to support the theory.

Agreeing with akaDascribe here
Here is one:
Luke 24:39
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

He could have said that there is no such thing as a ghost, but he didn't.
Read what he said. He more or less explained that they do not have flesh and blood, thus potentially confirming they exist.

Dave G. · Apr 7, 2018

Shempster said:
Agreeing with akaDascribe here
Here is one:
Luke 24:39
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

He could have said that there is no such thing as a ghost, but he didn't.
Read what he said. He more or less explained that they do not have flesh and blood, thus potentially confirming they exist.

Yes he could have, thanks for pointing that out.

Butch5 · Apr 7, 2018

Shempster said:
Agreeing with akaDascribe here
Here is one:
Luke 24:39
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

He could have said that there is no such thing as a ghost, but he didn't.
Read what he said. He more or less explained that they do not have flesh and blood, thus potentially confirming they exist.

The word is actually spirit in that passage, not ghost.

Shempster · Apr 7, 2018

Butch5 said:
The word is actually spirit in that passage, not ghost.

What would the difference be between a ghost and a spirit?
Are they not both referring to a person/personality that has no physical body but is visible? If he was referring to a spirit that cannot be seen, why would they claim to SEE a spirit/ghost?

Butch5 · Apr 7, 2018

Shempster said:
What would the difference be between a ghost and a spirit?
Are they not both referring to a person/personality that has no body?

Not in the Bible.The word spirit is a metaphorical use of the Greek word pneuma which means breath or wind. Angels and demons are called spirits because the are like the wind. Jesus gave an example in John 3.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (Jn. 3:8 KJV)

Angels and demons are like the wind in that you cannot see them. They come and go without our knowledge. However, we can see the effects of them when they act. However, this word pneuma isn't used in Scripture for a disembodied human being.

mark kennedy · Apr 7, 2018

Well, I don't think I believe in ghosts but there is this passage that gives me pause:

“Bring up the ghost of Samuel,” he answered. When the woman saw Samuel, she screamed. Then she turned to Saul and said, “You’ve tricked me! You’re the king!” “Don’t be afraid,” Saul replied. “Just tell me what you see.” She answered, “I see a spirit rising up out of the ground.”, “What does it look like?” “It looks like an old man wearing a robe.” Saul knew it was Samuel, so he bowed down low. “Why are you bothering me by bringing me up like this?” Samuel asked. “I’m terribly worried,” Saul answered. “The Philistines are about to attack me. God has turned his back on me and won’t answer any more by prophets or by dreams. What should I do?” (1 Samuel 28: 11-15)

Butch5 · Apr 7, 2018

mark kennedy said:
Well, I don't think I believe in ghosts but there is this passage that gives me pause:

“Bring up the ghost of Samuel,” he answered. When the woman saw Samuel, she screamed. Then she turned to Saul and said, “You’ve tricked me! You’re the king!” “Don’t be afraid,” Saul replied. “Just tell me what you see.” She answered, “I see a spirit rising up out of the ground.”, “What does it look like?” “It looks like an old man wearing a robe.” Saul knew it was Samuel, so he bowed down low. “Why are you bothering me by bringing me up like this?” Samuel asked. “I’m terribly worried,” Saul answered. “The Philistines are about to attack me. God has turned his back on me and won’t answer any more by prophets or by dreams. What should I do?” (1 Samuel 28: 11-15)

Hi Mark, In that passage Saul seeks out a woman with a familiar spirit, a demon. In the passage the woman saw gods coming up out of the earth. Paul said the gods of the pagans were demons. Also, it is recorded in 1 Chronicles that Saul inquired of a familiar spirit.

13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; (1 Chr. 10:13 KJV)

mark kennedy · Apr 7, 2018

Butch5 said:
Hi Mark, In that passage Saul seeks out a woman with a familiar spirit, a demon. In the passage the woman saw gods coming up out of the earth. Paul said the gods of the pagans were demons. Also, it is recorded in 1 Chronicles that Saul inquired of a familiar spirit.

13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; (1 Chr. 10:13 KJV)

What I get from the passage is the woman was surprised that Samuel actually emerged. Of course it might have been demonic but the words of Samuel were literally fulfilled and he was a prophet after all. I think it was a unique manifestation, I don't know why God did it but I doubt seriously the occult had much to do with it, the practitioner was shocked by the whole thing.

Butch5 · Apr 7, 2018

mark kennedy said:
What I get from the passage is the woman was surprised that Samuel actually emerged. Of course it might have been demonic but the words of Samuel were literally fulfilled and he was a prophet after all. I think it was a unique manifestation, I don't know why God did it but I doubt seriously the occult had much to do with it, the practitioner was shocked by the whole thing.

I don't think God had anything to do with it. He had actually forbid Israel from practicing Necromancy and He later said in Ezekiel that if a prophet inquired on behalf of an apostate that He would induce the prophet to answer and then destroy both the apostate and the prophet. I can't see how Samuel would be involved in this. That is if it was even possible which I don't believe it is as I pointed in my other post that man is a physical being. Here's the passage from Ezekiel.

For any man of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, who shall <1> separate himself from me, and conceive his imaginations in his heart, and set before his face the punishment of his iniquity, and come to the prophet to enquire of him concerning me; I the Lord will answer him, according to the things wherein he is entangled.
8 And I will set my face against that man, and will make him desolate and ruined, and will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
9 And if a prophet should cause to err and should speak, I the Lord have caused that prophet to err, and will stretch out my hand upon him, and will utterly destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
10 And they shall bear their iniquity according to the trespass of him that asks; and it shall be in like manner to the prophet according to the trespass: (Ezek. 14:7-10 LXE)

mark kennedy · Apr 7, 2018

Butch5 said:
I don't think God had anything to do with it. He had actually forbid Israel from practicing Necromancy and He later said in Ezekiel that if a prophet inquired on behalf of an apostate that He would induce the prophet to answer and then destroy both the apostate and the prophet. I can't see how Samuel would be involved in this. That is if it was even possible which I don't believe it is as I pointed in my other post that man is a physical being. Here's the passage from Ezekiel.

For any man of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, who shall <1> separate himself from me, and conceive his imaginations in his heart, and set before his face the punishment of his iniquity, and come to the prophet to enquire of him concerning me; I the Lord will answer him, according to the things wherein he is entangled.
8 And I will set my face against that man, and will make him desolate and ruined, and will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
9 And if a prophet should cause to err and should speak, I the Lord have caused that prophet to err, and will stretch out my hand upon him, and will utterly destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
10 And they shall bear their iniquity according to the trespass of him that asks; and it shall be in like manner to the prophet according to the trespass: (Ezek. 14:7-10 LXE)

Yea and the passage does underscore the fact that Saul had all such practitioners put to death. Then he consults one. I understand what your saying and I don't disagree, just saying, this could be perceived as a ghost story even though if Samuel did in fact speak with Saul, it was an act of God. No medium could have summoned him. Elijah and Moses spoke with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration, is that a ghost story, or a God ordained manifestation?

Butch5 · Apr 7, 2018

mark kennedy said:
Yea and the passage does underscore the fact that Saul had all such practitioners put to death. Then he consults one. I understand what your saying and I don't disagree, just saying, this could be perceived as a ghost story even though if Samuel did in fact speak with Saul, it was an act of God. No medium could have summoned him. Elijah and Moses spoke with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration, is that a ghost story, or a God ordained manifestation?

I agree it does look like it could be a ghost story. Actually, a lot people believe it is.

mark kennedy · Apr 7, 2018

Butch5 said:
I agree it does look like it could be a ghost story. Actually, a lot people believe it is.

I don't think so, I think the manifestation was an act of God and the medium was shocked that it happened. It's hard to say for sure, and there are other possibilities but I think it was Samuel, not some demon. Just my thoughts, I have no way of conclusively nailing this one down.

Grace and peace,
Mark

1stcenturylady · Apr 7, 2018

CrystalWolf said:
I don't think they're "demons" at all or anything like that. I think that many may be hallucinations, some may be spirits of the dead, who knows?

Interesting. I have a question you can answer for me as I see you are Catholic. Do Catholics believe in demons? Do they believe in a devil/Satan? Do they believe in angels? I'm just curious from your answer...

1stcenturylady · Apr 7, 2018

I was once sent by God to cleanse an office in Beverly Hills of three witches who all had familiar spirits they swore were dead people giving them advice. One came in the FORM of the dead father of a girl. Another came in the FORM of a dead friend blown up in Vietnam. And the head witch had three. All of these were duped into believing what ever the spirit said. The cleanse was successful.

When I've researched psychics, or children who see "dead people," we find that in a generation or two back someone opened the door to the demonic by using an ouija board, seances, or tarot cards. These are not innocent games and activities.

Shempster · Apr 8, 2018

Butch5 said:
Not in the Bible.The word spirit is a metaphorical use of the Greek word pneuma which means breath or wind. Angels and demons are called spirits because the are like the wind. Jesus gave an example in John 3.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (Jn. 3:8 KJV)

Angels and demons are like the wind in that you cannot see them. They come and go without our knowledge. However, we can see the effects of them when they act. However, this word pneuma isn't used in Scripture for a disembodied human being.

So why did they say they thought he was a "spirit"? You yourself said you can't see a spirit, so how was it that they all saw him with their eyes and still thought he was a "spirit"? Why didn't Jesus correct them and tell them there is no such things as spirits one can see?

1stcenturylady · Apr 8, 2018

Shempster said:
So why did they say they thought he was a "spirit"? You yourself said you can't see a spirit, so how was it that they all saw him with their eyes and still thought he was a "spirit"? Why didn't Jesus correct them and tell them there is no such things as spirits one can see?

I've thought the same thing. These guys were Jews. Did all Jews believe in ghosts?

akaDaScribe · Apr 8, 2018

Hebrews 9

“26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. “

Given the context of this statement, after reviewing the whole chapter, it looks like the statement

“27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”

Is more definitive about the fact that people are not re-incarnated than what exactly the process is when a person dies. Furthermore, I can think of at least 2 people who were resurrected in the old testament. The boy who Elisha rose from the dead. The body that touched Elisha’s bones and rose from the dead. Jesus rose 3 people from the dead. Paul rose one person from the dead. Maybe, there are others, but I recall these instances. We also know of at least 2 people who never died. Enoch and Elijah.

We can say that these were exceptions, but these are recorded exceptions and we have no idea how many unrecorded exceptions there were. The same goes for miracles and spirits manifesting enough to be known.

So we know that people are not re-incarnated, we understand that the spirits of people have a destination that they go to other than here. We know that the ultimate destination will either be heaven or hell. We don’t know timelines or the process or the number of exceptions.

It says that only God can separate the spirit from the soul. So we don’t know how that works either. We don’t know if every kind of spirit has a soul or not. We don’t know to what degree demon, devil, and unclean spirit are referring to the same thing. We don’t know what the differences are among any of the spiritual things.

There are books that have not been canonized that look at this a little, but, given they had reasons not to be canonized, it is a bit risky to review those documents unless you have an extremely thorough knowledge of the Bible.

I guess what I’m wondering really is if it is reasonable to acknowledge that we don’t really know about ghosts and the inter-workings of the spiritual realms because the Bible tells us not to go there. And, these things ought not to be pursued because they are at a minimum a distraction from our purpose as the living, and they inevitably lead to negative and often devastating outcomes if pursued.

LastSeven · Apr 8, 2018

mark kennedy said:
What I get from the passage is the woman was surprised that Samuel actually emerged. Of course it might have been demonic but the words of Samuel were literally fulfilled and he was a prophet after all. I think it was a unique manifestation, I don't know why God did it but I doubt seriously the occult had much to do with it, the practitioner was shocked by the whole thing.

But Samuel was dead and dead people have no consciousness, so it could not have been Samuel. It was either a demon posing as Samuel or the woman was lying to Saul about what she saw.

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