"Ghosts" aren't biblical

[Paleoconservatarian]

Only ghost I believe in is the Holy Ghost. The trouble is that people often accept ghosts outside of a Christian worldview, and try to tack that onto their Christianity. But it just won't fit.

 

[CJ.23]

Only ghost I believe in is the Holy Ghost. The trouble is that people often accept ghosts outside of a Christian worldview, and try to tack that onto their Christianity. But it just won't fit.

Yet Jesus exorcised spirits (demonic by the look of things?) and in Scripture refers to ghosts. (I cited the scriptures earlier.) The "ghosts are dead people" belief is neither vindicated nor disproved by Scripture, nor by science, and myself do not believe they are dead folks, yet Jesus seems to refer to ghosts as existing quite directly? Ghost is a difficult erm, as it implies to most people dead souls wandering around. The discussion is far more complex than that...

cj x

 

[Egghead]

Well, it was against the law under Saul, because he had expelled the mediums and fortune tellers earlier in his reign. However, (after he saw the Philistine army and didn't get a response when he inquired of God) he wanted to consult Samuel about what to do. The account can be found in 1 Samuel 28. It has been contested whether the account is literal fact, or if it was just used to demonstrate the connection between David, Samuel, and Saul, or both.

One thing that drives me nuts is to see something that is clearly a historical issue in the bible twisted into an metaphor/parable when some people dont want to, or cant, deal with the details for some reason.

There is no reason to believe that it was anything but a literal event.
No mention of it being a dream or a vision or even being presented as just a parable for learnings sake alone.

 

[CJ.23]

One thing that drives me nuts is to see something that is clearly a historical issue in the bible twisted into an metaphor/parable when some people dont want to, or cant, deal with the details for some reason.

There is no reason to believe that it was anything but a literal event.
No mention of a dream or a vision or even being presented as just a parable for learnings sake alone.

It seems like a literal event to me, and is keeping with the admittedly slightly later Achaen and Graeco-Roman traditions of Necromancy. I think we are dealing with a literal vision of a spirit, possibly in a dream.

 

[theseed]

Actually, all this passage says is that we die only once and we are judged afterwards. It doesn't say that we will be judged immediately after we die.

What about all the other cited verses? The passage says more also, look closely. Does it say, "after this a limbo existance" or does it say "judgment"? (Heb. 9.27).

 

[theseed]

This verse actually says that we'd rather be absent from the body and be with the :ord; it doesn't say that once we are absent from the body, we are with the Lord.

Verse 6 says that when believers leave the body, they are present with the Lord. (2 Cor. 6-9).

 

[theseed]

During the fourth watch of the night Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. "It's a ghost," they said, and cried out in fear. But Jesus immediately said to them: "Take courage! It is I. Don't be afraid."
"Lord, if it's you," Peter replied, "tell me to come to you on the water."

This only shows that some of the disciples were familiar with the concept of ghosts. Christ does not say he is a ghost here.

And then Jesus mentions ghosts again in the Ressurection appearances: Luke 24 33-43

Again, this passage only supports the concept of a ghost, not the existance of human spirits wondering the earth.

The scriptures I have pointed out reveal that there is no limbo before judgment.

 

[CJ.23]

This only shows that some of the disciples were familiar with the concept of ghosts. Christ does not say he is a ghost here.



Again, this passage only supports the concept of a ghost, not the existance of human spirits wondering the earth.

The scriptures I have pointed out reveal that there is no limbo before judgment.

And as i said ghosts do not have to be dead people. Yet supernatural spirits are clearly part of the Christian Faith, a Jesus spends most of his ministry performing healings and driving out evil spirits, and yes ghosts are culturally part of belief in the time of Christ. Sadly I am really busy today so I can't doa detailed treatment of this fascinating subject...

cj x

 

[Archangel]

Is the issue of ghosts something that will help us in our worship of God and outreach, or is it just to satisfy our curiosity?

 

[CJ.23]

Is the issue of ghosts something that will help us in our worship of God and outreach, or is it just to satisfy our curiosity?

Well our education tends to be materialist reductionist so anything which implies there is more to life than base chemistry, physics etc suggest has to be of massive relevance?

cj x

 

[Archangel]

indeed...unless it becomes a distraction to our faith.

 

[CJ.23]

Well i's my primary occupation, so I guess it's as much a distraction to me as any 9 to 5 job Seriously though, I hold it does have some importance as an issue

cj x

 

[theseed]

And as i said ghosts do not have to be dead people. Yet supernatural spirits are clearly part of the Christian Faith, a Jesus spends most of his ministry performing healings and driving out evil spirits, and yes ghosts are culturally part of belief in the time of Christ. Sadly I am really busy today so I can't doa detailed treatment of this fascinating subject...

cj x

No, Ghost do not have to be dead people, but that are in this argument. That is why I put "ghosts" in quoatation marks.

 

[theseed]

Is the issue of ghosts something that will help us in our worship of God and outreach, or is it just to satisfy our curiosity?

It is something to help us worship God, because Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. We must hold fast to the truth so we are not decieved.

 

[WildHeart75]

Actually, all this passage says is that we die only once and we are judged afterwards. It doesn't say that we will be judged immediately after we die.

If we are judged immediately after death then how did Lazarus come back to earth and live again? There is only ONE judgment and after that you don't get to come back. The judgment takes place on the Last Great Day.

 

[Archangel]

If we are judged immediately after death then how did Lazarus come back to earth and live again? There is only ONE judgment and after that you don't get to come back. The judgment takes place on the Last Great Day.

"What is impossible for man is possible for God"

 

[theseed]

If we are judged immediately after death then how did Lazarus come back to earth and live again? There is only ONE judgment and after that you don't get to come back. The judgment takes place on the Last Great Day.

Because we are judged immediately does not mean that we can't come back in physical form. It does mean that we are not in limbo as ghost of dead people.

 

[Annabel Lee]

Again, I emphasize that it is appointed unto men to die once, and then the judgment.

If these weren't spirits of the dead, is the only other option demons?

How can everything in the spirit world be demonic..there must be some goodness.

 

[Iollain]

Yes there are angels, and i believe every once in awhile God allows the dead to come back for a minute and comfort a loved one sometime in the first days that they die, i've heard of that quite a few times. But i don't believe in a spirit that is allowed to stay in a certain place and haunt it, that is all in people's heads or probably demonic.

 

[king-priest]

Ghosts as in people wondering the earth after death, is biblically incorrect. Such things are psychological or demonic manifestations. If ghosts existed then Jesus would be lying when he said judgment came after death.

Communicaion with the dead is also psychological or demonic.

However, People who have died have in the bible come back. Samuel is a bit of a controversial one... but definatly Elijah and Moses.

Totally agree. That's why pyschics are actually communicating with demons and may I add, that only a non-believer in Christ can do so. Some may say they believe in Jesus but only God knows in their heart if that is true. The bible says that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Those that trusted in Jesus as their Saviour cannot be possesed but they still can be influenced.
As for ghosts, there is no word in the original languages. It is spirit, and angels are spirits as well.
If someone has been talking with the "dead" then it's absolutely a demon.
also, the bible states that in our age they are not to reveal themselves for miracles, that is why we are to believe only .
"For we walk by faith and not by sight"
So if angels are obey God's command then it gives reason the ones that disobey are not His.