Getting forgiveness for being a complete self-indulgent moron (mastrubation related)

[Armistead]

Puberty is a process that makes us sexual, it never really goes away. It may change as hormones change, but it's not a process that ends. Puberty make us sexual beings and that doesn't go away. Before puberty, you did not think sexually, didn't care. Once it happens, sexual thoughts and desires happen. This is the way God created the body to work. Without sexual thoughts and desires, man would never seek to marry. God placed in us a force so strong that man and women are driven together. Why there are many reasons to seek a mate, it is sexuality and that alone that makes us want each other as God intended.

No deliverance program can stop what God placed in man. All these programs do is install guilt, fear and sexual confusion. I've studied these programs and the problem is they distort and confuse sexuality. They do not seperate normal sexual nature from sexual illness, but put both in the same pot. They are so harmful to young normal teens.

Statistics show many that go through these programs often turn to homosexuality in adulthood and turn from God completly. The mind being so forced to reject sexual thought towards the opposite sex. Later the anger, fear and guilt from repressing that which was normal, people turn from God. Having no sexual balance or understanding, then true sexual dysfunction takes place, leading to some of the worse sexual behaviors.
The many children abused by RCC priests further proves the point.

There should be programs for those that suffer severe sinful sexual behavior, but these programs do not even address these problems correctly, because they don't understand normal sexuality.

The best these programs offer is someone to call each time you feel guilty over MB or having a sexual desire. Why some stop for periods, 99.9% continue, however in guilt and fear. Many in these programs become convinced they have a demon, because they can't quit. Another reason these programs are so corrupt. In the end you have to have something to blame it on, because all the deliverance plans fail.

Anyone honest ready your post can clearly see the emotional harm you are going through, because of poor biblical teaching. If it continues you will suffer for years. I have talked with many who got proper help, even after knowing the teachings were corrupt, still could not get it all out of their heads.

 

[Nadiine]

Puberty is a process that makes us sexual, it never really goes away. It may change as hormones change, but it's not a process that ends. Puberty make us sexual beings and that doesn't go away. Before puberty, you did not think sexually, didn't care. Once it happens, sexual thoughts and desires happen. This is the way God created the body to work. Without sexual thoughts and desires, man would never seek to marry. God placed in us a force so strong that man and women are driven together. Why there are many reasons to seek a mate, it is sexuality and that alone that makes us want each other as God intended.

No deliverance program can stop what God placed in man. All these programs do is install guilt, fear and sexual confusion. I've studied these programs and the problem is they distort and confuse sexuality. They do not seperate normal sexual nature from sexual illness, but put both in the same pot. They are so harmful to young normal teens.

Statistics show many that go through these programs often turn to homosexuality in adulthood and turn from God completly. The mind being so forced to reject sexual thought towards the opposite sex. Later the anger, fear and guilt from repressing that which was normal, people turn from God. Having no sexual balance or understanding, then true sexual dysfunction takes place, leading to some of the worse sexual behaviors.
The many children abused by RCC priests further proves the point.

There should be programs for those that suffer severe sinful sexual behavior, but these programs do not even address these problems correctly, because they don't understand normal sexuality.

The best these programs offer is someone to call each time you feel guilty over MB or having a sexual desire. Why some stop for periods, 99.9% continue, however in guilt and fear. Many in these programs become convinced they have a demon, because they can't quit. Another reason these programs are so corrupt. In the end you have to have something to blame it on, because all the deliverance plans fail.

Anyone honest ready your post can clearly see the emotional harm you are going through, because of poor biblical teaching. If it continues you will suffer for years. I have talked with many who got proper help, even after knowing the teachings were corrupt, still could not get it all out of their heads.

In all that, you also have to admit that SIN is also as deeply ingrained into our nature. It is our nature.
Little children prove the sin nature we naturally have- you have to TEACH them to be kind, to share, to be honest, to behave, etc.
Throwing tantrums, lying, being selfish, hitting, insulting others, greed and rebellion are already there without having to teach them anything.

So while sex may be our nature after hitting puberty, it's what we do with that sex that governs right and wrong. So let's get our nature in proper perspective.
Wanting to have sex is natural, but having that sex outside wedlock is still sin no matter how natural it is or feels.

& did you stop to think that getting these people this help which didn't work to change their inward conviction, that maybe God is convicting them and not releasing them to this particular "liberty" (as you would call it something we can all indulge in)?
Not every liberty is for everyone. God may allow some Christians to drink alcohol, while others cannot get near it without serious conviction.
We're to be open and pliable to His Spirit's leading in us.

As James taught, if you do not do the GOOD you know to do, it's sin for YOU. Sin is individual when it comes to liberties.

 

[LJSGM]

touching yourself can not be compared to alcohol. I hate alcohol, would never drink it. People have to get use to alcohol over time. Huge difference.

There's nothing wrong with touching yourself. If someone has a problem with porn or the way they treat women, then you can become concerned. This person doesn't seem to, so there's no point in trying to make him feel more guilty about it.

 

[Nadiine]

touching yourself can not be compared to alcohol. I hate alcohol, would never drink it. People have to get use to alcohol over time. Huge difference.

There's nothing wrong with touching yourself. If someone has a problem with porn or the way they treat women, then you can become concerned. This person doesn't seem to, so there's no point in trying to make him feel more guilty about it.

Then why do so many feel that guilt if it's not sin at all and isn't mentioned in the bible?
MANY today are NOT raised in the church & do not even go to church or read a bible to KNOW that some call it sin... they just FEEL it's wrong inwardly but dont know why the guilt exists.

That to me shows that God may very well be involved in convicting this in them. Do we ignore shame or conviction entirely?
I used alcohol as an example of a liberty only - pick any liberty we have out of a hat, it doesn't matter which you choose.
=)

 

[LJSGM]

Then why do so many feel that guilt if it's not sin at all and isn't mentioned in the bible?
MANY today are NOT raised in the church & do not even go to church or read a bible to KNOW that some call it sin... they just FEEL it's wrong inwardly but dont know why the guilt exists.

That to me shows that God may very well be involved in convicting this in them. Do we ignore shame or conviction entirely?
I used alcohol as an example of a liberty only - pick any liberty we have out of a hat, it doesn't matter which you choose.
=)

the same reason you would feel shame if someone saw you doing a poopoo. It's discusting and personal, and in no way would you want someone seeing you do it. Does that make it wrong? No.

 

[Nadiine]

the same reason you would feel shame if someone saw you doing a poopoo. It's discusting and personal, and in no way would you want someone seeing you do it. Does that make it wrong? No.

Well no one DOES see them do this... that's the whole point lol
IT IS done in private. In fact, you wouldn't even know he masturbated if he didn't post it here for the world to read.

People poop in private too, but they certainly don't feel inner guilt for taking a dukey do they?
See, I'm saying that alot of people DO feel conviction when they supposedly shouldn't... so I have to ask why so many do.

 

[LJSGM]

See, I'm saying that alot of people DO feel conviction when they supposedly shouldn't...

I do feel guilty sometimes doing a #2, if it's at someone elses house.

They don't feel guilt because the church isn't telling them it's wrong. And people couldn't not stop it if they wanted to, and they've been doing it since they were inside their mother's womb. It's hard to compare I guess. My point is, that not everything that one feels embarrassed about or guilty about is sin.

eventually that person that doesn't eat meat may well end up being mature enough to eat meat. The bible says to leave them alone and not try to make them eat, it does not say to shame them if they do end up eating meat.

 

[Nadiine]

I do feel guilty sometimes doing a #2, if it's at someone elses house.

Well............ maybe you SHOULD! ROFL sorry (always pictures "Dumb & Dumber" bathroom scene after he drank a cup of "Turbo Lax".

They don't feel guilt because the church isn't telling them it's wrong. And people couldn't not stop it if they wanted to, and they've been doing it since they were inside their mother's womb. It's hard to compare I guess. My point is, that not everything that one feels embarrassed about or guilty about is sin.

eventually that person that doesn't eat meat may well end up being mature enough to eat meat. The bible says to leave them alone and not try to make them eat, it does not say to shame them if they do end up eating meat.

I understand your points... I just have a hard time believing that the people that haven't been 'browbeaten' against MB, don't go to church [regularly] & who touch in the privacy of their own area with no one around to give them any reason for feeling 'bad' about it... aren't showing signs of something more than just doing something 'natural'. It does kind of seem to point to it being something more than just natural guilt about a private issue.
Pooping in private doesn't make me feel convicted... pooping on someone's car might tho. LOL
:o

 

[Armistead]

I think the problem is guilt is taught more than a self learned tested decision. Most people don't know what true guilt is and it's amazing what different denominations feel guilty about. A parent or church can push something so hard, that a person will feel guilty about something, without really knowing why.

You can look at many past teachings that made people feel guilty over things that weren't biblical. For instance when it was pushed sex was only for procreation. The way is was taught then, I'm sure many married people felt guilty for just having fun sex. Many married couples today feel guilty about having sexual thoughts or fantasy about their partner.

My problem is many churches teach and imply guilt without explaining the reason behind the guilt. This is legalism. There are many man made codes people feel guilty about. My brother goes to a fundie church that preaches against doing any possible so called sin. Feel guilty about wearing shorts, watching tv, listening to music, anything that could be worldly in the preachers eyes. Even when the men are working outside remodeling the church, they must wear long pants. Women go by the 3inch rule, the dress must go 3 inches or more past the knee. When swimming, like the beach trip, both makes and females could only go in the water in long pants and shirts. It's easy to see all these people comsumed in guilt that they shouldn't.

True guilt can only come when a person has studied the issue from all sides and has total understanding of why one should feel guilty. That's why the bible tells us to use our own conscience and not to judge others.
The problem is denominations only teach one point of view and tell people not to question.

I would say many Christians are feeling guilty about things they shouldn't and ignoring the true things that they should feel guilty about.

 

[katautumn]

I find it sad that so many young men and women are berating themselves for doing something so natural that even babies do it out of sheer curiosity. It's sad that people find it so appalling and grotesque that they have to use cute little abbreviations for it, as if "masturbation", "masturbating" or "masturbated" are dirty words.

The only time people feel ashamed for doing it is when they've been taught to be ashamed. Sure, when you're young you would be embarrassed if your mom or dad caught you doing it, but that doesn't make it bad. I'm a married woman and, by Biblical standards, well within my right to have sex with my husband, but I would be embarrassed if my mom walked in on us.

There are just so many lies that circulate about masturbation.

1. It's a demonic spirit within you.
2. If you desire it, you're addicted to it.
3. Masturbation leads to rape.
4. Masturbation is the same as cheating on your spouse.
5. Masturbating as a teen will make you bad husband or wife in the future.
6. You cannot touch without lust being involved.

These are all lies.

 

[Armistead]

I find it sad that so many young men and women are berating themselves for doing something so natural that even babies do it out of sheer curiosity. It's sad that people find it so appalling and grotesque that they have to use cute little abbreviations for it, as if "masturbation", "masturbating" or "masturbated" are dirty words.

The only time people feel ashamed for doing it is when they've been taught to be ashamed. Sure, when you're young you would be embarrassed if your mom or dad caught you doing it, but that doesn't make it bad. I'm a married woman and, by Biblical standards, well within my right to have sex with my husband, but I would be embarrassed if my mom walked in on us.

There are just so many lies that circulate about masturbation.

1. It's a demonic spirit within you.
2. If you desire it, you're addicted to it.
3. Masturbation leads to rape.
4. Masturbation is the same as cheating on your spouse.
5. Masturbating as a teen will make you bad husband or wife in the future.
6. You cannot touch without lust being involved.

These are all lies.

You are correct. MB starts at about two and is an ingrained habit. For some reason, people want to make it sin when puberty takes place. It seems the sin is puberty...but God created puberty. The fact is when you play with your genitals, sexual hormones are released in the brain and vice versa, you have thoughts, your genitals get excited. God created the body this way and we call it sin...really, they are saying God created sin.

My son is 11 and we have already had the MB talk. Obvious, he found rubbing his privates felt good at about 4. Anyone that has male children will constantly see them humping, rubbing, ect...it just feels good with no sexual thought. Then they hit puberty and become sexual as God designed. I will never teach my son to feel guilty about it. Right now, we have taught him it's a private thing and when the urge hits to go be private. At about 9, he would sometimes tell me he would be going to his room to be private...good laugh.

 

[Armistead]

the same reason you would feel shame if someone saw you doing a poopoo. It's discusting and personal, and in no way would you want someone seeing you do it. Does that make it wrong? No.

Why should you be ashamed for doing a poo poo. I always laugh when I go to a Nascar race. The line for the womens restroom gets so long, they get in line in the mens restroom. You can imagine how disgusting the toilets are. The women say how disgusting men were, gagging, almost vomiting ect...Of course we told her she could go get back in line and wait for an hour. What's even funnier is to be out in one of the parking lots and seeing all the naked butts letting go...just never enough restrooms for a 100,000 people.

You must not like Nascar.

 

[Simon_Templar]

I will say only this. This is an area that I struggle with so I know how the OP feels.

I would like to believe that it is not sinful, but there is no question at all in scripture that lust is sin. Personally I've never been able to seperate masturbation from lust. I've heard other people say that they can, honestly I'm doubtful, but thats not mine to judge I guess. For me, I can tell easily how it affects me as a person. When you feed lust, it only increases the strength of its hold on you. It begins to control you until the point at which it gets difficult to even look at a woman without thinking about sex.

I don't want to be that kind of person. Even if I can feel good about it, I don't want to be that kind of person, and I don't want to get to the place where I feel good about being that kind of person.

Considering that masturbation is never even mentioned in the Bible - and the only arguments ever presented that it *is* a sin are "slippery slope" arguments...along the lines of...

"Masturbation can lead to this, which can lead to that, which can lead to a sin" -

...the amount of time that's wasted...and the amount you see people consumed...about something as frivolous as rubbing a body part is just ridiculous, in my humble opinion.

 

[Armistead]

I will say only this. This is an area that I struggle with so I know how the OP feels.

I would like to believe that it is not sinful, but there is no question at all in scripture that lust is sin. Personally I've never been able to seperate masturbation from lust. I've heard other people say that they can, honestly I'm doubtful, but thats not mine to judge I guess. For me, I can tell easily how it affects me as a person. When you feed lust, it only increases the strength of its hold on you. It begins to control you until the point at which it gets difficult to even look at a woman without thinking about sex.

I don't want to be that kind of person. Even if I can feel good about it, I don't want to be that kind of person, and I don't want to get to the place where I feel good about being that kind of person.

You are incorrectly defining lust as sexual thought or fantasy. It is not. Lust biblically is to covet..the desire to take something from someone that doesn't belong to you. When Christ said to look at a woman with lust you have already committed adultery, he was not saying a sexual thought is adultery. He was saying that someone that would desire to take another mans wife, even thought he had not had sex yet, still is guilty of adultery.

There are 25 definitions of lust in the bible, none really sexual. One can lust for power, material things, ect. Lust is desire to take, rather than to work for something. Lust could also be out of control behavior that would harm another person.
Lust is not sexual thoughts. Sexual thoughts come from puberty and God created the body and brain to have sexual thoughts. He created a forces so strong to drive men and women together. After puberty, sexual fantasy becomes a part of MB, where it wasn't before puberty. This is God's plan.
He intended for you to have sexual thoughts. After pubery, you don't have to think thoughts, they naturally come to you. For most men, many thoughts per minute.
The goal should be to not let these thoughts control you to the point they become harmful. For most these thought are not harmful. Most don't cross the line and hurt others sexually, like rapists, ect. Other than that, treat women with respect, admire their sexuality, embrace it..I think when we look a womens body, we can clearly see God exist, because only he could make such a beautiful creature.

 

[Simon_Templar]

You are incorrectly defining lust as sexual thought or fantasy. It is not. Lust biblically is to covet..the desire to take something from someone that doesn't belong to you. When Christ said to look at a woman with lust you have already committed adultery, he was not saying a sexual thought is adultery. He was saying that someone that would desire to take another mans wife, even thought he had not had sex yet, still is guilty of adultery.

I recognize that lust isn't exclusively sexual. However, sexual thoughts of the nature you are describing are lust. Lust would be the super set, sexual lust is the sub-set.

The point being that a person's body and their intimacy doesn't belong to you any more than their money, or their property, etc. When you look at a woman and think about her sexually, you are doing exactly what you describe here as lust.

Paul teaches that when a man and woman are married, their bodies belong to each other. Prior to marriage your body belongs to you alone. Further, the relationship involved is a sacred one (between husband and wife), thus to imagine stealing that, even from an unmarried woman is lust, exactly as you describe it, coveting something that is not yours.

When you desire to have sex and think about having sex with a woman who is not your wife, you are by definition desiring to take somethign that does not belong to you. Both her body, and the relationship as well.

 

[SubtleArt]

I've struggled with mastrubation ever since I was 11 or 12. For some reason I ALWAYS felt bad about it, even before I actually knew what it was (it used to just "happen", I had no idea what it really meant or anything).

Many of us have struggled with this so-called mastrubation as well.

I also noticed that everything suddenly looked bright and optimistic. Again, that could just have been the relief of not having the weight of guilt hanging over me anymore.

What specifically are these bright and optimistic feelings? Maybe you should focus on those more, rather than being bullied by these overpowering feelings of guilt.

I cursed myself into the ground over it

God probably doesn't want to see you cursing yourself in frustration. =( That makes him sad you know.

I can't help noticing that this past year has been the best year of my life, and you can call me superstitious, but I can't help feeling the two are somehow related - so now that I've finally given in to my wretched temptation, particularly as my target was SO DAMN CLOSE, does that mean that suddenly this streak of good luck and success I've been having is going to stop?

Good luck? I think if you forgot about all this after praying and just focused on going back to not condemning yourself, you'd be a lot better off.

This probably sounds utterly childish and ridiculous

NAWWWWW

but for some reason it's really eating me alive.

Oh dear!

I can't bear the thought that I've just thrown away all the good things that have been happening in my life in a few minutes of stupidity,,,

Nah, you've still got God's love. Do you know what infinite amounts of love means?

And is there anything in particular I should do to ask for forgiveness over this?

Just say sorry.

Wow. Reading that over, I've never felt like more of an idiot.

Phew, I hear you.

Can anyone help?

It seems like your worrying over all of this might be worse than the act itself. I feel really bad that it's ruining your life. If it gets so bad, castration has actually proven to be a good solution throughout history. Fun-fact: In Europe, when women were not permitted to sing in church or cathedral choirs in the Roman Catholic Church, boys were sometimes castrated to prevent their voices breaking at puberty and to develop a special high voice. Sure, it can prohibit you from having children, so maybe only losing one ball would fix the problem without such bad coincidences. =( You should talk to your doctor, first, of course.

If you don't want to sacrifice that much to guarantee that you'll live in the grace of God, you can just pray a lot lot lot and think about giraffes while watching "Dora the Explorer" every time you get the urge. That'll make the bad thoughts go away.

I will pray for you. God bless!

 

[Armistead]

I recognize that lust isn't exclusively sexual. However, sexual thoughts of the nature you are describing are lust. Lust would be the super set, sexual lust is the sub-set.

The point being that a person's body and their intimacy doesn't belong to you any more than their money, or their property, etc. When you look at a woman and think about her sexually, you are doing exactly what you describe here as lust.

Paul teaches that when a man and woman are married, their bodies belong to each other. Prior to marriage your body belongs to you alone. Further, the relationship involved is a sacred one (between husband and wife), thus to imagine stealing that, even from an unmarried woman is lust, exactly as you describe it, coveting something that is not yours.

When you desire to have sex and think about having sex with a woman who is not your wife, you are by definition desiring to take somethign that does not belong to you. Both her body, and the relationship as well.

Men and women marry for one reason, sexual attraction and that process starts at puberty..as God created. Having sexual thoughts and desires is a process that God created and people want to call it sin. It is a force that is so strong, it drives women and men together. Puberty causes sexual thought.

Sorry, people are not asexual before marriage...not one.

I don't know of one person that didn't have sexual attraction and desires for the person they married, nor any man that didn't have sexual thoughts and desires before marriage. The reason is...God didn't make us that way. Certainly, we should not do harm to others, but natural sexuality is seen all through the bible and mankind.

 

[MarkFiles]

Being attracted to someone means you are healthy and normal.

 

[chingchang]

Finally some reason on this thread. It saddens me to see Brothers and Sisters wrapped up in guilt and actually repenting for something that isn't a sin. This is a maturity issue. Read Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8. Masturbation IS NOT as sin as far as God is concerned. If it was...he would have legislated against it and he has not. Man has...but who cares what man thinks. If God has not legislated against it...then we can exercise our God-given liberty and free will to chose to engage in it...or not. Because it is not a sin...we can enjoy it freely...and even thank God for the wonderful way in which he designed us to enjoy sexual pleasure.

If you really study the Bible (meaning going back the the original greek and learning what the words meant...and learning what was common in Biblical times)...and want to know the truth on Biblical sexual ethics...I promise you will be rewarded with the truth (as promised in God's Word). The sexual ethics that the modern Church subscribes to is not God's ethics...but Man's. To be sure...I'll throw out a small bone: Did OT "heros of the faith" like King David commit adultery or fornicate by having sex with their concubines and slaves? Did Samson commit adultery or fornicate by having sex with a prostitute? Have you read and understood the Song of Songs? Why is that book in the Bible Canon? Ahhh...to be sure it is erotic poetry that describes the intense sexuality that this woman and her lover (not her husband) had for each other. The book is complete with her lover and others watching her dance nude for them...and the onlookers cheering for more. When was the last time your Pastor/Priest gave a sermon on the Song of Songs? Mormons don't recongnize the Song of Songs as authoritative...and look...they are some of the most sexually repressed people.

Religion sucks...to many rules to follow...and they're always changing.

In Christ,
chingchang

Men and women marry for one reason, sexual attraction and that process starts at puberty..as God created. Having sexual thoughts and desires is a process that God created and people want to call it sin. It is a force that is so strong, it drives women and men together. Puberty causes sexual thought.

Sorry, people are not asexual before marriage...not one.

I don't know of one person that didn't have sexual attraction and desires for the person they married, nor any man that didn't have sexual thoughts and desires before marriage. The reason is...God didn't make us that way. Certainly, we should not do harm to others, but natural sexuality is seen all through the bible and mankind.

 

[Chazemataz]

Oh, there are much worse things you could be doing than pleasing yourself. Is getting a massage sinful too? Where in the bible does it say that masturbation is sinful, I'd like to know.
If your this concerned, anyway, God will realize that.
(I personally don't beleive in hell but I'll indulge you and say that there is one) I don't think that God will send you to hell for doing something so minor. God is just and good.
Better you do this than go out and pick out some prosititute on the street corner. And as a 15 year old boy i do it quite frequnetly and have no qualms about it. Im not bragging, and it isn't the best thing one could do, but i have yet to see convicning evidence that its a sin.