Getting forgiveness for being a complete self-indulgent moron (mastrubation related)

[conkertheking]

This is a long, sad story, so if you're not in the mood for a wall of text, stop reading right here.

I've struggled with mastrubation ever since I was 11 or 12. For some reason I ALWAYS felt bad about it, even before I actually knew what it was (it used to just "happen", I had no idea what it really meant or anything). And after being wildly indulgent in it for years, but still consantly questioning whether or not I was sinning, finally, at 17, I decided to give it up for lent last year. I straight away noticed an incredible amount of energy and optimism in myself after a few days. I really don't know what to make of that - it could have just been psychological, since I was just happy I was managing what I thought I couldn't. Or else it was because it really IS sinful and deep down my soul was thrilled I'd gotten rid of it. Anyway, after lent was over, I did it again a few times, and it just never felt right, so in June I decided, in a moment of madness, to vow to give it up for at least one entire year, just to see if I could.

Bizarrely, I actually managed it. I remember saying to myself at the time "Yeah right, don't kid yourself", but in august I suddenly realised that I hadn't actually thought about it in the 2 months since I kicked the habit. I also noticed that everything suddenly looked bright and optimistic. Again, that could just have been the relief of not having the weight of guilt hanging over me anymore. At Christmas I had a "dream" (you know what I mean) and I felt slightly bad about that but reasoned that there's nothing whatsoever anyone can do about those, and so I continued on my abstinence, the target of one year looming ever closer.

Then, finally, I lost it. This morning. I didn't really mean for it to happen, at first I was just trying to get rid of an urge, but without even meaning to, I went all the way. I cursed myself into the ground over it, immediately prayed for forgiveness, and the same at mass this morning.Christian faith tells us that i we believe God will forgive us for something like this, he will. But there's still a cloud in my mind:

Is that "the end" or the great feeling I've had up until now? I can't help noticing that this past year has been the best year of my life, and you can call me superstitious, but I can't help feeling the two are somehow related - so now that I've finally given in to my wretched temptation, particularly as my target was SO DAMN CLOSE, does that mean that suddenly this streak of good luck and success I've been having is going to stop?

This probably sounds utterly childish and ridiculous, but for some reason it's really eating me alive. I can't bear the thought that I've just thrown away all the good things that have been happening in my life in a few minutes of stupidity,,,

And is there anything in particular I should do to ask for forgiveness over this? I'm thinking about going to confession or something, but since there seems to be total ambiguity over whether this is actually sinful, the priest might not understand what's wrong...

Wow. Reading that over, I've never felt like more of an idiot. Can anyone help?

 

[Nadiine]

Wow. Reading that over, I've never felt like more of an idiot. Can anyone help?

You aren't an idiot. I think everybody goes thru this subject; married and single.

I'm not here to go into if it's sin or not - frankly, I don't know if it is or not. I'm not 100% convinced either way. What matters tho, is how YOU feel about it in your own conscience to the Lord.

I commend you on caring enough to OBEY GOD in what you think is wrongdoing, to try to stop it. To me that shows alot and I truly believe that God is pleased with your obedience to your conviction about this.
God is happy when we care enough to obey and work to "crucify our flesh" ; namely when it hinders us spiritually.

I think this verse is key in this area (things you don't see spelled out directly in scripture):
James 4:17
Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.

This struggle is the same one everyone goes thru in other struggles -
gluttony, cheating, minor stealing (ie. internet downloads, doing personal stuff on work time, taking stuff from work, etc.) & whatever else.
We will always be working on obeying God and not falling into sin, welcome to Christianity.
I'm not lenient on sin in the least, just explaining that it's something we'll always fall into here and there. Just Repent to the Lord (He knows your heart and hardships) pick yourself back up and continue on.
It's the process we go thru becuz we don't live like the outside world anymore and don't just condone things that they condone and promote.
They find it silly and stupid to have to abstain from sins (namely ones that give us 'harmless' pleasure).

1 Peter 4
3For the time already past is sufficient for you to have carried out the desire of the Gentiles, having pursued a course of sensuality, lusts, drunkenness, carousing, drinking parties and abominable idolatries.
4 In all this, they are surprised that you do not run with them into the same excesses of dissipation, and they malign you;
5 but they will give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing,
but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

God bless!

 

[DZoolander]

The only forgiveness that's really relevant here is whether or not you forgive yourself - for something that you yourself have chosen to believe is a sin - despite the fact that there's nothing in the bible that says that masturbation is a sin.

The issue is how you see yourself, what you believe masturbation to be, and how you're going to reconcile those things. However - I doubt God is up there shaking His head in disappointment because you chose to play around with your penis this morning. I think He's got much more truly important things to worry about

 

[Nadiine]

The only forgiveness that's really relevant here is whether or not you forgive yourself - for something that you yourself have chosen to believe is a sin - despite the fact that there's nothing in the bible that says that masturbation is a sin.

The issue is how you see yourself, what you believe masturbation to be, and how you're going to reconcile those things. However - I doubt God is up there shaking His head in disappointment because you chose to play around with your penis this morning. I think He's got much more truly important things to worry about

I wouldn't feel comfortable minimizing our actions where sin might be concerned.
We can say the same to rationalize all kinds of "little sins" too - "my gosh, it was only a measely little pencil you took, God isn't up there furious and festering over a cheap pencil".
The truth is, theft is theft - God's issue isn't WHAT you take, but that you took what wasn't yours.

Again, I'm not going into if it's sin or not, it may be for all I know in that what is going on in our mind (his mind) MIGHT BE the sin, not the "act" itself. Lust issues he may know about during the act. You can't know what he's imaging or lusting about to tell him it's right or wrong I don't think. I don't feel comfortable judging that.

 

[DZoolander]

Considering that masturbation is never even mentioned in the Bible - and the only arguments ever presented that it *is* a sin are "slippery slope" arguments...along the lines of...

"Masturbation can lead to this, which can lead to that, which can lead to a sin" -

...the amount of time that's wasted...and the amount you see people consumed...about something as frivolous as rubbing a body part is just ridiculous, in my humble opinion.

 

[Nadiine]

Considering that masturbation is never even mentioned in the Bible - and the only arguments ever presented that it *is* a sin are "slippery slope" arguments...along the lines of...

"Masturbation can lead to this, which can lead to that, which can lead to a sin" -

...the amount of time that's wasted...and the amount you see people consumed...about something as frivolous as rubbing a body part is just ridiculous, in my humble opinion.

SIGH.
This isn't about IS IT RIGHT OR WRONG. and it isn't for YOU to say if it is or isn't in HIS LIFE/ for him.

I'm shocked that people are speaking so arrogantly to decide it isn't, when it deals with sexual thoughts in the mind.
Even lust of another woman if married constitutes adultery & is sin. So what you think CAN be sin.
So how can you decide for someone else who masterbates, that it isn't wrong when you have no clue what they think during the act???
I don't believe that "act" is so much a sin... but the thoughts that accompany it might be the problem.
That's between them & God and it's not for me (or you) to say either way.

I'd be REAL careful where you go in condoning things; namely if they feel conviction in their hearts over it and it's affecting them spiritually or emotionally.

I quoted James earlier, IF something is against your conviction/ then to do what you know isn't right, it is sin for you. It may not be sin to someone else who's conscience doesn't bother them (& who knows, maybe it's due to it being dulled by other sins they live in?), but if they feel it's wrong for them, then doing it makes it wrong as they violate their own conscience.

This isn't about 'is it right or wrong' - which almost all the posts end up turning to in these threads.

 

[DZoolander]

I think you're misunderstanding my approach.

I'm simply offering a counter view that maybe masturbation *isn't* a sin - which is a stance that has a lot of merit. Life is about changing perspectives, isn't it?

Often - the resolution to our problems lies in finding a different way of looking at the issue.

 

[Nadiine]

I think you're misunderstanding my approach.

I'm simply offering a counter view that maybe masturbation *isn't* a sin - which is a stance that has a lot of merit. Life is about changing perspectives, isn't it?

Often - the resolution to our problems lies in finding a different way of looking at the issue.

Ok thanks for clarifying.

I'm not positive what the OP thinks about it "if it's written in stone" as sin.
But even when we look at passages in the NT about clean & unclean meat, I think this issue is resolved.

Even tho eating "unclean" meat (meat sacrificed to false gods) wasn't sin as per NT. ceremonial laws being fulfilled in Christ's death & raising, to the person who still felt it was evil, they themselves shouldn't engage in eating it & violating their conscience towards it became sin for them. (weaker in faith).

IF something is sinful to you, then doing it or participating in it becomes the problem where you're violating your conscience.

So if it isn't "officially" sin, his feelings about it make it a problem to engage in it.
I think the bible talks about this where if people can't control their lusts & desires, it's best to marry and be able to fulfull that.
(doesn't help short term tho lol - most people don't meet & just run to Vegas becuz they have sexual urges. lol).

But I will say this, marriage isn't always the cure-all to that since that can often create lots of other problems when sex stops being the main focus, reality mite set in. lol

Sometimes I wish we weren't created this way honestly - but then I have no other suggestion that's any better as if I know more than God.

In the end, I know this much, we might suffer down here in having to abstain & our society makes it all the harder becuz 'going without' in our world now is almost a joke now - we wouldn't dream of it.
God will reward us richly for what we endure thru obedience. Our priorities just have to be right and how high God is on our list will show where we place Him & our relationship.

 

[lavenderbees]

Just wanted to add that, if a man gets into the habit of masturbation and in particular, gets into the habit of thinking that it is perfectly OK, his wife will not be happy with him, once he is married. Unless, of course, she does not mind masturbating herself. But even then there is a danger that a couple who is happy with this solitary activity may, eventually, split up.

There is something cold and selfish about a marriage partner who resorts to satisfying themselves instead of sharing this activity with their husband/wife. It can cause resentment and frustration in their partner.

 

[martymonster]

Hey there Conkerthinking!

There is nothing you can do about this problem my friend, because you are only trying to address the symptom and not the cause, and the cause is not in our power to do anything about.

Mat 15:16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? Mat 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

What Christ is saying in these to verses is that transgression follows sin and not the other way around, so if you want to stop this sin that you are a slave to, then what you need is a heart translplant by the master heart sergeon.

Even if you could somehow stop masturbatiing, the only thing that you would acheive is to be puffed up and become proud which is actually a step backwards rather than a step forwards.

Jas 4:6 But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, "God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble."
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas 4:8 Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Jas 4:9 Be wretched and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom.
Jas 4:10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you.

Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

The truth is that God has made us in our weakend carnal state so that He can bring us to the end of ourselves.
After We have battled our sin time and time again and failed and given up, that's when He will come to us and give us power over sin, but We must keep trying, because We can't know that We are nothing without Him if We don't keep failing.

Rom 11:30 For, just as, ye, at one time had not yielded unto God, and yet now have received mercy by their refusal to yield,
Rom 11:31 So, these also, have now refused to yield, by your own mercy, in order that, themselves also, should now become objects of mercy;
Rom 11:32 For God hath shut up all together, in a refusal to yield, in order that, upon all, he may bestow mercy.
Rom 11:33 Oh! the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments! and untraceable his ways!

So there you go, there's the order.
Stubborness, Humility, Mercey, Exaltation!

I hope that helps!

 

[HuntingMan]

Firstly let me say to you that no one who isnt a teenage male, or has been at some point in their life, can ever truly understand what teen boys go thru from about 11 or so.
When youre given advice, always make sure you know what direction its coming from. I dont mean this in any bad way, but having someone who cannot possibly have gone thru it tell you how you should feel or what you need to do may not do much but end up causing you more distress.

For example, during those years I had no one but my mother to tell me what a horrid wretch a man is who has desires like that. She wasnt talking TO me about my issue because she didnt have a clue, but her husband at that time was constantly chasing other women, and based on her words about his behavior, I concluded that any male who thought about females in a physical way were hellbound perverts who deserved fates worse than torturous death.

Needless to say that this didnt help me much given the fact that I couldnt get girls off my mind.

Im going to say this as plainly as possible instead of beating around the bush and hope it doesnt offend anyone.
MANY women simply are not capable of FULLY understanding what a young man goes thru during these years....usually about 6 -10 years after hitting puberty.
Even a young man with much virtue can be completely consumed by these 'feelings'.

What youre going thru, regardless of what you are told by anyone at home or on the internet, is entirely normal for a teenage male.
Dont get me wrong, some young men get thru a bit easier than others...each of our bodies is and situations is a bit different, but I doubt there are many men on this planet who can HONESTLY say that they've never, ever had a bit of an issue with MB, especially during the years you are talking about.

Its not the end of the world, brother.
Forget about it being a sin inherently or not...the issue exists and can turn into unbridled lust if we do have a bit more of an issue with it than some other man does, and thus become a sin whether it is mentioned in scripture or not.

Heres what you need to do.
Forget setting up time frames like a year. When you slip and do it once, you can feel like youve completely failed and just give up altogether.
When you wake up each DAY, decide THAT DAY that youre going to do your best to not do it..in fact, dont even go that far with thinking about it.

Instead get up and get busy doing something.
The best way to get away from something isnt to keep reminding yourself about it by trying to decide to NOT do it, but instead to get it out of the picture just dont think about it at all by finding things that can keep your mind and body as busy at possible..get some hobbies, do things with friends, whatever.

Also understand that youre going to be around females at times and they way women dress these days things ARE going to get the better of you at times.
Men for the most part, arent built like women are physically.
A lot women Ive talked to have literally been able to shut down physical urges for years, even decades..completely amazing and I personally cannot comprehend it, but Ive heard first hand from ladies who have.

Men arent usually that lucky, at least not when were teens, 20's and 30,s or so...many even much older.
Our bodies are built to 'want' to reproduce....its just how we are made.
You may go a lifetime and keep it completely under control if you have that gift (and scripture shows conclusively that it IS a gift).
But more than likely your body is going to win at times and you are going to MB or whatever(well, until marriage)

Paul shows us that it is better to marry than to burn. He wasnt talking about burning lunch (altho sometimes I think some here may actually think that sort of thing), but is speaking about burning with desire...desire for the opposite sex...for companionship...for a mate.
Regrettably the physical part of this starts for a young man about the age you mentioned it happened for you and doesnt let up in many cases until death.

Im not going to define MB as 'sin' for you, because I am completely undecided about that particular thing. I can see how, as someone else has said, that even if its not inherently 'sin', that giving oneself over to it CAN be sin regardless, but this applies even in marriage if a person is completely consumed with sex and it becomes an idol.

Do your best brother. keep in prayer to God and understand that HE already knows what youre going thru. He's not some alien lifeform out there waiting to zap you when you mess up....He is your Creator and your Lord and your FRIEND who wants to help you and have you TALK to Him about any problems you have.

Stop condemning yourself. Dont call yourself names.
When you feel youve messed up, just get up, sincerely ask for forgiveness and move along and see how long you can go until you mess up again.
When you feel youve messed up, just get up, sincerely ask for forgiveness and move along and see how long you can go until you mess up again.
When you feel youve messed up, just get up, sincerely ask for forgiveness and move along and see how long you can go until you mess up again.
etc
etc
etc.

This is a long, sad story, so if you're not in the mood for a wall of text, stop reading right here.

I've struggled with mastrubation ever since I was 11 or 12. For some reason I ALWAYS felt bad about it, even before I actually knew what it was (it used to just "happen", I had no idea what it really meant or anything). And after being wildly indulgent in it for years, but still consantly questioning whether or not I was sinning, finally, at 17, I decided to give it up for lent last year. I straight away noticed an incredible amount of energy and optimism in myself after a few days. I really don't know what to make of that - it could have just been psychological, since I was just happy I was managing what I thought I couldn't. Or else it was because it really IS sinful and deep down my soul was thrilled I'd gotten rid of it. Anyway, after lent was over, I did it again a few times, and it just never felt right, so in June I decided, in a moment of madness, to vow to give it up for at least one entire year, just to see if I could.

Bizarrely, I actually managed it. I remember saying to myself at the time "Yeah right, don't kid yourself", but in august I suddenly realised that I hadn't actually thought about it in the 2 months since I kicked the habit. I also noticed that everything suddenly looked bright and optimistic. Again, that could just have been the relief of not having the weight of guilt hanging over me anymore. At Christmas I had a "dream" (you know what I mean) and I felt slightly bad about that but reasoned that there's nothing whatsoever anyone can do about those, and so I continued on my abstinence, the target of one year looming ever closer.

Then, finally, I lost it. This morning. I didn't really mean for it to happen, at first I was just trying to get rid of an urge, but without even meaning to, I went all the way. I cursed myself into the ground over it, immediately prayed for forgiveness, and the same at mass this morning.Christian faith tells us that i we believe God will forgive us for something like this, he will. But there's still a cloud in my mind:

Is that "the end" or the great feeling I've had up until now? I can't help noticing that this past year has been the best year of my life, and you can call me superstitious, but I can't help feeling the two are somehow related - so now that I've finally given in to my wretched temptation, particularly as my target was SO DAMN CLOSE, does that mean that suddenly this streak of good luck and success I've been having is going to stop?

This probably sounds utterly childish and ridiculous, but for some reason it's really eating me alive. I can't bear the thought that I've just thrown away all the good things that have been happening in my life in a few minutes of stupidity,,,

And is there anything in particular I should do to ask for forgiveness over this? I'm thinking about going to confession or something, but since there seems to be total ambiguity over whether this is actually sinful, the priest might not understand what's wrong...

Wow. Reading that over, I've never felt like more of an idiot. Can anyone help?

 

[Nadiine]

Great Post !
I agree.

And it is true that us women can "shut ourselves down" for years - I've known a few myself with horrible marital trouble and single women for years.
I think God just made us drastically different biologically - and I think it's becuz of 1 reason (I'm not saying it's fact, just my opinion).

I think that men could and would live without women if they weren't given such a strong sexual drive. Sex is essentially what makes men 'chase' or want women. Without it, I think men would be turned off by our traits, dispositions and personalities for the most part (as a life-long mate without sex involved).

I have male friends and that is what I've concluded based on conversations. Again I'm not saying it's true of ALL males, but maybe a large number?
Dunno.

anyways, nice balanced post - even in liberties we can be in sin with them if we aren't careful.

 

[martymonster]

Good post HuntingMan!

I too can relate to the Mother thing, having grown up without a father since the age of 11.

Again, really great post!

 

[Armistead]

I was the same way when I was a teen. I wanted to please God, but I couldn't best MB. With each failure, another plan, only to fail again. There were times I would fall into prayer and tears the exact moment after I "finished."

These feelings stemmed from being in a fundie Bap. church that basically taught all sexual desire, thought and action before marriage was sin. It was eventually the fear and guilt that I left the church. It took years to put away the corrupt, unbiblical way many churches teach sexuality.

The act of god, called puberty made you a sexual creature. That act makes you want to MB with sexual thought.

You will get much advise, but MB is a totally normal process. Just reading your story shows why teaching MB as sin is so sad. Your caught up in constant guilt, fear and a revolving door of repenting. It consumes your entire walk with Christ.This will make you a miserable person until you learn that sexuality and the desires that come with it are normal. Deal with it soon or the guilt and fear will follow you into adulthood. Yes, I would warn you to wait until marriage and stay away from any sexual behavior that would harm another person, but most sexual thought and MB..doesn't apply to that.

The goal should not be to defeat MB, accept it as a normal act, because puberty makes it just that. Don't let it control your life and don't use fantasy that is harmful, such as forcing yourself, ect.

The good news is many churches are now coming out of the dark ages.
Some will call it sin, but say it's one of those "sins" that is reasonable' there to make us humble, ect. Stupid teaching, but at least admitting it's there and happens. When I grew up, it was never talked about, no internet, ect. You were just told it was sinful and wrong and God may kill you if lived in continual sin.

 

[Nadiine]

I was the same way when I was a teen. I wanted to please God, but I couldn't best MB. With each failure, another plan, only to fail again. There were times I would fall into prayer and tears the exact moment after I "finished."

These feelings stemmed from being in a fundie Bap. church that basically taught all sexual desire, thought and action before marriage was sin. It was eventually the fear and guilt that I left the church. It took years to put away the corrupt, unbiblical way many churches teach sexuality.

The act of god, called puberty made you a sexual creature. That act makes you want to MB with sexual thought.

You will get much advise, but MB is a totally normal process. Just reading your story shows why teaching MB as sin is so sad. Your caught up in constant guilt, fear and a revolving door of repenting. <snip>.

It just MIGHT be sinful - this falls mostly on what's going on in the mind - & since that's individual to each person, you can't just lay a blanket "be cool with it bro" phrase & put the blame on those nasty "fundy" churches. tsk tsk.


I can basically use your post to say you shouldn't feel any guilt about anything that is "natural" to you.... Just fill in the blank as what you want to do if it feels like a natural urge.
SIN is in our nature, and sin is natural to us - it's righteousness and crucifying our flesh that doesn't come natural and isn't so easy.


I think the church would be doing a huge disservice if they didn't give ANY warnings about MB and just patted everyone on the back & said "have a great time folks"!!!
Is it ALL good? I'd say no, it's NOT all good; they'de have to actually teach guidelines on what consists of actual lust in the mind, etc.
Then what do you do when that particular person is feeling guilty when no one has put any guilt on them (by teaching it's wrong)...

You do realize that the Holy Spirit DOES send conviction to us on which liberties we can & can't engage in?? Or, in the case of others, those weaker in faith felt the need to abstain from unclean meats -
while others had no conviction about it - but those who feel no conviction aren't to STUMBLE the weaker regarding the issue.

MB is NOT for everyone to just have fun & enjoy; each Christian must be submissive to the Holy Spirit's individual & unique working in their life & their own personal conscience.
IF God says no TO YOU, then it's NO. Liberties are not blanket "go aheads".
Why are people feeling guilt if there's nothing wrong with it? If their "church" isn't teaching it's sin? That needs to be looked into.

Gays suffer this as well - they have more acceptance now than ever (The Cal. supreme court opened up gay marriage just last week), yet a large majority suffer inner guilt trips even when they're accepted.

James 4:17
Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do
and does not do it, to him it is sin.

If something feels wrong in our spirit, then we need to seek God about it; maybe it is wrong for us whether it's a liberty or not.

 

[Armistead]

It just MIGHT be sinful - this falls mostly on what's going on in the mind - & since that's individual to each person, you can't just lay a blanket "be cool with it bro" phrase & put the blame on those nasty "fundy" churches. tsk tsk.


I can basically use your post to say you shouldn't feel any guilt about anything that is "natural" to you.... Just fill in the blank as what you want to do if it feels like a natural urge.
SIN is in our nature, and sin is natural to us - it's righteousness and crucifying our flesh that doesn't come natural and isn't so easy.


I think the church would be doing a huge disservice if they didn't give ANY warnings about MB and just patted everyone on the back & said "have a great time folks"!!!
Is it ALL good? I'd say no, it's NOT all good; they'de have to actually teach guidelines on what consists of actual lust in the mind, etc.
Then what do you do when that particular person is feeling guilty when no one has put any guilt on them (by teaching it's wrong)...

You do realize that the Holy Spirit DOES send conviction to us on which liberties we can & can't engage in?? Or, in the case of others, those weaker in faith felt the need to abstain from unclean meats -
while others had no conviction about it - but those who feel no conviction aren't to STUMBLE the weaker regarding the issue.

MB is NOT for everyone to just have fun & enjoy; each Christian must be submissive to the Holy Spirit's individual & unique working in their life & their own personal conscience.
IF God says no TO YOU, then it's NO. Liberties are not blanket "go aheads".
Why are people feeling guilt if there's nothing wrong with it? If their "church" isn't teaching it's sin? That needs to be looked into.

Gays suffer this as well - they have more acceptance now than ever (The Cal. supreme court opened up gay marriage just last week), yet a large majority suffer inner guilt trips even when they're accepted.

James 4:17
Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do
and does not do it, to him it is sin.

If something feels wrong in our spirit, then we need to seek God about it; maybe it is wrong for us whether it's a liberty or not.

Puberty created by God makes us sexual creatures. It makes us sexually attracted to one another. The thoughts come without thinking. I guess we will just have to disagree with how lust is defined, but I find no biblical basis at all that lust equals sexual thought. Biblically, lust is to covet, desire to take something, out of control behavior that harms others.

Just because the natural man is sinful, that doesn't make that which is natural sinful. People should not feel guilty over what God created to be natural through puberty. If not for sexual thoughts, desire and fantasy, men would pay little attention to women and stick to fishing. If not for natural puberty that makes men go ape over the sexuality of a women, we would probably marry our fishing buddies.

Guilt is more often taught than a matter of the true conscience. When a religion ingrains that something is evil, dirty and sinful into a childs mind at an early age until adulthood, his true conscience never had a chance. Man's legalistic unbiblical teachings have so corrupted the concept of guilt, it's now almost impossible to define what is real guilt. I spent most of my youth waiting for God to smite me for puberty. Just look at Islam and how they view sexuality. Everyone's conscience is more a product of what is placed into the brain.

Some churches are teaching MB with guidlines. However, almost always one guildeline is "no sexual thought while MB." How stupid and silly and it perverts and represses the natural sexual maturity that is developed. I want my son to be sexually attracted to females and will encourage him in the process. If we started at the time of the RCC until today and how the church taught and dealt with sexuality, one can clearly see the church is responsible for most perverted sexual behavior. I would bet many homosexual males became that way due to the repression of natural sexuality.

Each should test their motives over any behavior. The test should be..how will this harm myself or others. If the behavior would cause harm, then the spirit would convict. However, children need to be guided because they are not old enought to decide guilt correctly. For the most part, only a few people corrupt their sexual thoughts to the point it becomes harmful.
Their are some where the thought life could become dangerous and they could actually act on it. Certainly, men should not have thoughts of underage children, thoughts of rape, thoughts that would belittle, ect. As for keeping it under control...that is silly for 90% of the population. People will naturally do it when the urge hits them. Certainly, there are people that have sexual dysfunction mentally and get out of control. Other than that, MB should be taught as normal and that sexual thought will be apart of it.

What is sad, like the OP, there are so many young men that want to serve God, but live in misery over MB. The fear and guilt ruins what could be a special walk. Like the OP, who at his age is serious about his beliefs. How sad he has so much emotional guilt and confusion over what is normal. In this case, it's not the spirit convicting him, it's the guilt that has been taught and burned into his mind. The fact is, MB will continue in his life.
He will either learn that it's normal or grow up in guilt and fear. Sadly, this would cause him many emotional problems into adulthood if he doesn't get proper learning.

James Dobson of Focus on the Family has a fairly good teaching aspect to MB. I would encourage people to take the time to read his views. Still a little fundie to me, but would be helpful to those fundies that can't beat MB.

 

[JustAsIam77]

To the OP. You are saved unto everlasting life thru Gods grace because of your faith in His Sons supreme sacrifice (atonement) for your sins.

I'll probably catch flack for this but these masturbation guilt threads just sadden me. Even the apostle Paul struggled mightily with weakness of the flesh. Does anyone think he is not in the presence of our Creator because of his sin?

Do the best you can dealing with this issue. If you're not "perfect" rest assured you have alot of company. We're not perfect, just forgiven.

God bless.

 

[Nadiine]

To the OP. You are saved unto everlasting life thru Gods grace because of your faith in His Sons supreme sacrifice (atonement) for your sins.

I'll probably catch flack for this but these masturbation guilt threads just sadden me. Even the apostle Paul struggled mightily with weakness of the flesh. Does anyone think he is not in the presence of our Creator because of his sin?

Do the best you can dealing with this issue. If you're not "perfect" rest assured you have alot of company. We're not perfect, just forgiven.

God bless.

I don't think you should catch alot of flack becuz I think we all do understand our physical needs & urges that can get very strong, and how weak we can be and that we fail repeatedly.

I agree with this =)

 

[NavyGuy7]

The only forgiveness that's really relevant here is whether or not you forgive yourself - for something that you yourself have chosen to believe is a sin - despite the fact that there's nothing in the bible that says that masturbation is a sin.

The issue is how you see yourself, what you believe masturbation to be, and how you're going to reconcile those things. However - I doubt God is up there shaking His head in disappointment because you chose to play around with your penis this morning. I think He's got much more truly important things to worry about

Ah, but what of sexual immorality as a sin? I am referring to the fantasies sometimes associated with it.
And no, sorry, this isn't the appropriate thread for this, nevermind.
My debate instinct kicked in.
*puts shoe in mouth*
Dude, don't get too depressed over it, though. Just redouble your efforts, as that is all you can do! And a little prayer couldn't hurt, either. Just don't beat yourself up for it, as you can't go into the past and change it.
God has forgiven you for it. That is enough.

 

[Nadiine]

Ah, but what of sexual immorality as a sin? I am referring to the fantasies sometimes associated with it.
And no, sorry, this isn't the appropriate thread for this, nevermind.
My debate instinct kicked in.
*puts shoe in mouth*
Dude, don't get too depressed over it, though. Just redouble your efforts, as that is all you can do! And a little prayer couldn't hurt, either. Just don't beat yourself up for it, as you can't go into the past and change it.
God has forgiven you for it. That is enough.

LOL
I know it's habit huh? Our brains just work this way.

But your post is right, I see 2 elements to this - even in Christian liberties (let's say for arguments sake that MB actually IS a liberty we can engage in), it doesn't make it automatically fine.
We can still sin while doing something neutral. Esp. where lust is concerned.

But I feel the same with your post too .
Galatians 5:16
But I say, walk by the Spirit,
and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.