Getting a yes.....a guy's perspective.

[Deliberatetourist]

I read through all the posts about signals and how men can pick up on them and women dont give them etc.... From my perspective, lots of times its about power. When a guy asks a girl out on a date or to dance etc... he is invariably handing over all power to her to smash his ego and wreck his self esteem - the power of rejection. And of course power corrupts. Most of the time your average, and even not so average guy will get rejected. And it seldom has to do with looks because I see lots of good looking guys getting hashed as well. When a woman see's the disappointment in a man when she rejects his advances it gives her a feeling of power. Whereas if she would say yes whe is handing the power over to him - he won. I figured out a way to decrease the odds at which a person suffers rejection. Its all in the rhetoric. As a man you simply don't give them the option of trashing your ego. You provide them with a choice that simply excludes yourself from suffering personal loss regarless of the choice that they make. For example a man can ask a woman "Would you like to go out for dinner?" This is terrible wording and almost seals the fate of the person who asks it. Why? Becasue you are asking them an either or/like dislike question and the persons reply is therfore a qualitative assessment of the value of being with you in such a circumstance. Now on the other hand, if the man says "Lets go out and have dinner? I gaurantee it'll be fun. Come on wadda you say?" In one simple sentence the man has just given her an either or choice. She can accept the invitation and "have a great time" or she can reject it and in doing so reject the opportunity of having some fun - not the individual who simply offered her the opportunity. By playing with the rhetoric I have increased my chances of getting a yes significantly. I think it might be worth a try for lots of people.

 

[Achichem]

Well I’d phrase it a bit differently but I defiantly agree.

"Lets go out and have dinner? I gaurantee it'll be fun. Come on wadda you say?"

Now just to contrast, my version would go somthing like:
“You just have to come try the Ochi Bar, it is the absolute best Japanese in town. I am going Tuesday if you want to come.”

Oh and if you don’t think that is actually asking someone on a date your somewhat right, see I have found when one prepares for a formal date they build of all these ridiculous expectations in their heads…by making everything unspoken and causal (at least in the beginning of a relationship) it gives me a heck of a lot less to overcome in order to have a wonderful date.

 

[JPPT1974]

Even thoug I am a woman, I agree as well
Well-put my friend!

 

[Eric10]

You are probably right.

I think you could have worded the earlier parts of your explaination a little better though. I belive there is a lot less intent involved than you make it sound.

 

[Mskedi]

"Lets go out and have dinner? I gaurantee it'll be fun. Come on wadda you say?"

This sounds a bit more cocky than

“You just have to come try the Ochi Bar, it is the absolute best Japanese in town. I am going Tuesday if you want to come.”

this.

If it were someone I didn't know well, I'd likely say yes to the second and not to the first. If it were someone I knew well and was friends with or had an interest in, it wouldn't matter what they said.

I rarely know when I'm on a date because most guys ask me in the form of something like that second quote above. It's usually halfway through (or weeks or months, or in one case, years later) that I realize I'm on a date.

 

[Llauralin]

This sounds a bit more cocky than

this.

If it were someone I didn't know well, I'd likely say yes to the second and not to the first. If it were someone I knew well and was friends with or had an interest in, it wouldn't matter what they said.

I rarely know when I'm on a date because most guys ask me in the form of something like that second quote above. It's usually halfway through (or weeks or months, or in one case, years later) that I realize I'm on a date.

I think I like DaTsar's phrasing better as well. It takes the focus off of the ability of the person asking to "show her a good time," while being less pleading than "waddya say?" or whatnot.

As for the first part: there's a reason crowns of maryterdom are given to the bride and groom in Eastern Christian wedding ceremonies...

 

[Virgil the Roman]

I know it could be nerve racking. I've been there myself. I fortunately have found an understanding and wonderful girlfriend. I also hope that God will bless all you lonely guys with nice understanding women. Not all women will shoot u down. Eventually God will lead u to the right person, it's only a matter of seeing it before your eyes and believing it. God bless all of you and Good Luck!!!

 

[mwb]

I think the divine plan has men taking the initiative but women having the final say. Men have to show some guts & women, using their intuition, get to choose who's best for them. Each person has the power, so to speak.

That's why when I hear about women asking men out, it strikes me as being out of whack with the divine plan.

 

[KarateCowboy]

Well, first I would ask for a phone number. Then call about a week later and ask "Do you want to meet for coffee or do you want to play tennis?" It assumes a yes. Plus, I hear that it causes 'psychological dissonance' or some junk like that which is supposed to help.

 

[mwb]

The most important aspect of any successful offer is the other person has to be interested. A guy can shower a girl with flowers & gifts & if she's not interested, she will say no. Another guy can be shy & reserved but the girl will still say yes because she likes him.

 

[LOVEthroughINTELLECT]

I read through all the posts about signals and how men can pick up on them and women dont give them etc.... From my perspective, lots of times its about power. When a guy asks a girl out on a date or to dance etc... he is invariably handing over all power to her to smash his ego and wreck his self esteem - the power of rejection. And of course power corrupts. Most of the time your average, and even not so average guy will get rejected. And it seldom has to do with looks because I see lots of good looking guys getting hashed as well. When a woman see's the disappointment in a man when she rejects his advances it gives her a feeling of power. Whereas if she would say yes whe is handing the power over to him - he won. I figured out a way to decrease the odds at which a person suffers rejection. Its all in the rhetoric. As a man you simply don't give them the option of trashing your ego. You provide them with a choice that simply excludes yourself from suffering personal loss regarless of the choice that they make. For example a man can ask a woman "Would you like to go out for dinner?" This is terrible wording and almost seals the fate of the person who asks it. Why? Becasue you are asking them an either or/like dislike question and the persons reply is therfore a qualitative assessment of the value of being with you in such a circumstance. Now on the other hand, if the man says "Lets go out and have dinner? I gaurantee it'll be fun. Come on wadda you say?" In one simple sentence the man has just given her an either or choice. She can accept the invitation and "have a great time" or she can reject it and in doing so reject the opportunity of having some fun - not the individual who simply offered her the opportunity. By playing with the rhetoric I have increased my chances of getting a yes significantly. I think it might be worth a try for lots of people.

I refuse to play games like that. "Asking out" is making an offer, not making a request. Any woman who is consciously or subconsciously trying to gain and assert power is going to get frustrated if I am the one making the offer. I say what I mean and I mean what I say. I consciously try to as much as possible, anyway. Therefore, making an offer is not asking "Do you like me?" or "Are you attracted to me". It is simply "Would you like to do this"--nothing more, nothing less. Declining the offer won't be "rejecting" me; it will simply be saying, "No, I would not like to do that".

If I have to play games and protect myself from a woman then I won't be interested in making an offer in the first place.

And if a woman plays games then I probably won't have much interaction with her anyway. I suspect that anybody who is looking to play games can see that I am not going to go along with it and therefore spends his/her energy elsewhere. I tend to gravitate to honest, kind people.

 

[Jenster]

I'm fine with both DeliberateTourist's and DaTsar's approaches. I think they just reflect different personalities. Tourist's approach probably is more the style of an "entertainer" type of person, where as DaTsar's is more laid back and understated.

I don't know about all the power stuff; I've never been into power. But I agree that the standard dating question is high risk. I would disagree with anyone who thinks women LIKE turning guys down. We'd much rather have a "soft ask" approach ("I'm doing such and such Tuesday, do you want to come?") than a standard ask ("Would you like to go to the dance with me? yes or no?")

 

[Blank123]

The most important aspect of any successful offer is the other person has to be interested. A guy can shower a girl with flowers & gifts & if she's not interested, she will say no. Another guy can be shy & reserved but the girl will still say yes because she likes him.

bingo!

I'm not going to go out with a guy just because the way he asked me out sounds confident. I would go out with a guy because I actually have an interest in spending time with that person and getting to know them.

 

[Deliberatetourist]

I refuse to play games like that. "Asking out" is making an offer, not making a request. Any woman who is consciously or subconsciously trying to gain and assert power is going to get frustrated if I am the one making the offer. I say what I mean and I mean what I say. I consciously try to as much as possible, anyway. Therefore, making an offer is not asking "Do you like me?" or "Are you attracted to me". It is simply "Would you like to do this"--nothing more, nothing less. Declining the offer won't be "rejecting" me; it will simply be saying, "No, I would not like to do that".

If I have to play games and protect myself from a woman then I won't be interested in making an offer in the first place.

And if a woman plays games then I probably won't have much interaction with her anyway. I suspect that anybody who is looking to play games can see that I am not going to go along with it and therefore spends his/her energy elsewhere. I tend to gravitate to honest, kind people.

I am totally in agreement with you here LTI. But I will add that too often lots of guys don't know who the game players are until the damage is done.

 

[Deliberatetourist]

bingo!

I'm not going to go out with a guy just because the way he asked me out sounds confident. I would go out with a guy because I actually have an interest in spending time with that person and getting to know them.

Lots of women are interested in guys but will still turn them down. As LTI alluded to in an ablove post there are some game players although I am not sure you could classify all women who do this as such. I think any woman who's been educated in the West can get off on power trips perhaps without even realizing it. And just because a woman takes that approach doesn't mean shes trouble or doesn't have anything to offer. Lots of women I have seen do this are actually interested in the guy and reject him to see if he's got the nerve to try again. Then they'll give him the right-of-way if he does. The approach that I suggested denies them that and throws the monkey on their back so to spreak if they refuse because they aren't really refusing you - the are saying no to fun (what a sourpuss). Now as LTI stated some men might not want to even bother with such a woman but that is the topic for another thread. I just suggested a way for a guy who's tired of the flat NO from women to perhaps increase his chances.

 

[Llauralin]

Well, first I would ask for a phone number. Then call about a week later and ask "Do you want to meet for coffee or do you want to play tennis?" It assumes a yes. Plus, I hear that it causes 'psychological dissonance' or some junk like that which is supposed to help.

I don't think I'd react well to that one, unless we already had plans to do something, and were merely unsure of eachothers schedules or somesuch. It's pretty annoying to have a person assume you'll do stuff with them in a more personal context, just because I gave him my number.

 

[Macrina]

Lots of women are interested in guys but will still turn them down. ... Lots of women I have seen do this are actually interested in the guy and reject him to see if he's got the nerve to try again. Then they'll give him the right-of-way if he does. ...

Wow, yeah, I guess this is why I'm not really resonating with your approach: I wouldn't dream of turning down a guy just to "test" him. My yes is yes and my no is no... and like others have said, my answer won't be determined by how I'm asked.

 

[KarateCowboy]

I don't think I'd react well to that one, unless we already had plans to do something, and were merely unsure of eachothers schedules or somesuch. It's pretty annoying to have a person assume you'll do stuff with them in a more personal context, just because I gave him my number.

Well I guess that's how you determine compatibility!

 

[sweetmercy]

Lots of women are interested in guys but will still turn them down. Lots of women I have seen do this are actually interested in the guy and reject him to see if he's got the nerve to try again. Then they'll give him the right-of-way if he does..

I would NEVER do that. I'd be too afraid that he'd never ask again and I'd lose my chances with him! Plus, it's just plain mean

Jen

 

[fieldmouse3]

I have to jump in and somewhat disagree with the OP. Not all women get a "power trip" off of rejecting guys No one I know does. I myself feel horrible if I know I've hurt or disappointed someone, in any situation. I haven't exactly had tons of chances to accept/reject guys, but I look at that as a good thing. Even if I had, I think it's better to be honest and upfront rather than accept a date you don't really want to go on and lead the poor person on. Being led on feels far worse (IMHO) than polite rejection.