Geologic Proof of an old earth creation.

[Job 33:6]

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I never said dinosaurs were in Roman colosseums, and I seriously doubt we have that many animal bones preserved after dying in colosseums anyways, so it is a weird thing to expect.

Answers in Genesis suggests that dinosaurs battled giant nephelim in Roman colosseums.

I'm happy to hear that you disagree with this assessment of scripture. The image above is from the ark encounter theme park.

Imagined scripture detailing how giant nephelim battled tyrannosaurs before Julius Caesar*

First off, I'm not going to derail the topic talking about irrelevant concepts such as ghost lineages. I've already changed topics a dozen times in this thread because people are uncomfortable with coming to terms with what I'm saying and want to talk about other things.

On topic:

Here is simple and intuitive logic:
1. Whooly mammoth fossil are in shallow rock layers.
2. Whooly mammoth dna has been found in good enough condition to sequence sequenced and
3. Therefore, whooly mammoths lived recently.

4. Dinosaurs, of the tens of thousands we know of and hundreds of thousands or more estimated to have lived, none, 0, nothing, none have been found in shallower rock layers.
5. Dinosaur DNA has not been found, at all to anyone's knowledge, let alone in good enough condition to be sequenced. Only degraded organics, things like proteins, have been observed as of yet. Nothing sequenceable.
6. Therefore, dinosaurs, according to the evidence, died off before mammoths.

Answers in Genesis suggests that dinosaurs were fighting in Roman colosseums against nephilim gladiators.

No bones, no DNA. It would have been more feasible, yet still contradictory to a further mountain of evidence, for gladiators to have battled whooly mammoths, but no, answers in Genesis went a step further, in contrast to everything we know in paleontology, indeed in science, and for the sake of making money, for the sake of attracting people to spend their cash, answers in Genesis put dinosaurs on the ark and in Roman colosseums where they could battle nephelim.

A concept most certainly well beyond scripture....for money.

And that is the truth.

View attachment 318233

 

[Job 33:6]

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[lifepsyop]

But we have no bones, nor DNA from any recent strata. And so, I would say that such a reality suggests that they did not "survive life from the ark until present".

Ghost lineage - Wikipedia

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Here is the issue.
We see layers of sedimentary rock including limestone(life), followed by a dry-land layer of lava, followed by erosion and vegetation, followed by more sedimentary layers, followed by crustal upheaval forming diagonal layers, followed by the erosion of those layers down flat, followed by more sedimentary layers (including limestone, again life beneath an ocean), and finally back to the current dry earth of southwest USA. There is simply no way that this history could be formed during a 120-day flood. We can only conclude that all of these formations were made over a very long period of time, long before Adam and Eve were made in the Garden of Eden.

Would be an issue if what you described was what was out there. Kind of like the nice neat geological paleontological columns found in old text books. It doesn’t exist except in the imagination of those who write them.

 

[Job 33:6]

Would be an issue if what you described was what was out there. Kind of like the nice neat geological paleontological columns found in old text books. It doesn’t exist except in the imagination of those who write them.

We see a lot more than what he described in individual locations. But I'll let him respond and if he doesn't, I can.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Would be an issue if what you described was what was out there. Kind of like the nice neat geological paleontological columns found in old text books. It doesn’t exist except in the imagination of those who write them.

Please note the first post.
This can be currently found in the grand canyon.
Thanks

 

[Job 33:6]

Interestingly enough, the above description appears to even leave out a couple Paleozoic beds and hardly touches on formations above the Paleozoic. And then further, even within the formations listed, we have multiple variable members. For example, within the dox formation we have:

additional igneous sills.

From wiki on the dox formation:

Escalante Creek Member
The lowermost member of the Dox formation is the Escalante Creek Member. It consists of over 244 m (801 ft) of light-tan to greenish brown, siliceous quartz sandstone and calcareous lithic and arkosic sandstone overlain by 122 m (400 ft) of dark-brown-to-green shale and mudstone. The sandstones of the Escalante Creek member exhibit small-scale, tabular-planar cross-bedding, and graded bedding.

So you have sandstones, overlain by shales. Cross bedding followed by graded bedding.

"The graded shale beds contain interclasts at the base of this member of the Dox Formation"

Interclasts meaning:
Intraclasts are irregularly shaped grains that form by syndepositional erosion of partially lithified sediment. Gravel grade material is generally composed of whole disarticulated or broken skeletal fragments together with sand grade material of whole, disaggregated and broken skeletal debris. Such sediments can contain fragments of early cemented limestones of local origin which are known as intraclasts.[1]

Partially lithified, irregularly shaped grains. That sounds familiar.

Solomon Temple Member

Within the Dox Formation, the Solomon Temple Member overlies the Escalante Creek Member. The Solomon Temple Member consists of cyclical sequences of red mudstone, siltstone, and quartz sandstone.

Cyclical varying sedimentary layers.

Now, when we look at flood deposits today, we may find a single dense-to-light gradation as high energy flows bring in dense sediment, which settles out as the seas recede, but nothing cyclical.

The upper 67 m (220 ft) of the member consists primarily of maroon quartz sandstone that exhibits numerous channel features, and contains low-angle, tabular, and channel-like festoon cross beds.

Channels, as in stream bed channels of prehistoric rivers. Things like point bars and cut banks.

Stratigraphy and depositional setting of the upper Precambrian Dox Formation in Grand Canyon | GSA Bulletin | GeoScienceWorld

Stromatolite beds, aka immobile algal growth, a bed of it, not transported, but grown in situ, it's original home. Stromatolites grow in shallow seas like on the coast of Australia. Stromatolites don't grow over night, beds of it like these can take hundreds, or even thousands of years to grow.

@Daniel Martinovich

This is their original home, there's no evidence that they were transported here in some crazy flood, these delicate structures are positioned with their dome like arches upwards, this is their home, where they originally grew and lived. Can't you see that?

Remember when we were talking about in situ forests growing in prehistoric Antarctica?:
Geologic Proof of an old earth creation.

It's the same thing, but a shallow marine environment where instead of entire forests, we have shallow marine biota. Much like the trees of the antarctic tropical jungle, this is the original home and environment of the life observed within.

Moving on.

Comanche Point Member

Within the Dox Formation, the Comanche Point Member overlies the Solomon Temple Member. Within the central Grand Canyon, it has been removed by pre-Tapeats Sandstone erosion.

Ie, in some locations this formation has been eroded away. Suggesting that it was exposed above the sea and eroded away at some locations and/or points in time.

The strata of this member consist mainly of interbedded fine grained, slope-forming, argillaceous sandstone and sandy argillite, and subordinate claystone.

Salt casts, ripple marks, and desiccation cracks are common in the Comanche Point Member.

Dessication cracks, those are mud cracks formed in dry environments.

Salt casts, as in, cubic blocks of salt which grow, that's right the minerals needed time to grow, in what appears to be a saline shallow marine environment, which further supports the position on in situ stromatolite growth in shallow marine seas such as those observed growing in Australia. But these are casts, meaning that further the salt crystals after growing and settling/depositing, were then eroded away and filled in by surrounding sediment.

This member also contains a it's own thin beds of stromatolitic dolomite. These stromatolitic dolomite beds occur either within or directly adjacent to the leached beds.

Ochoa Point Member

The upper member of the Dox Formation is the Ochoa Point Member. Within the central Grand Canyon, it also has been removed by pre-Tapeats Sandstone erosion. It consists of micaceous mudstone that grades upward into a predominantly red quartzose, silty sandstone. Sedimentary structures found in this member include, salt crystal casts in the mudstone, and asymmetrical ripple marks and small-scale cross beds, in the sandstones. The Ochoa Point Member is 53 to 92 m (174 to 302 ft) thick and forms steep slopes and cliffs below the Cardenas Basalt. The Dox Formation that directly underlies the Cardenas Basalt consists of brick-red to vermilion well-bedded sandstone, with parallel bedding and shaly partings, forming smooth slopes. It also contains a thin, discontinuous basaltic lava flow.[2][5][8]


And again, more of the same, ripple marks, salt casts, cross beds and another basaltic lava flow.

You know, in many parts of the world and throughout the stratigraphic column, we have thin beds of volcanic ash that span hundreds of miles. Thin beds of ash. How chaotic could the flood have been that ash, almost as light as air, would remain in tact over many miles? And my description of all of the above I'm sure hardly does the detail of these member justice because things like cyclical bedding and interbedding, they don't typically include just one or two cycles, but rather dozens. Things like stromatolite beds, they aren't typically just thin layers, but rather are more commonly massive thick beds of stromatolite growth that only could occur over many thousands of years.

And all of this is just in the dox formation alone. A single formation noted in the original post (this is formation #2 summarized as "additional sedimentary layers" though when we open that up, we see that it's actually much much more. But it goes even much further with much more detail when you actually go into technical writing and look at these things of course in the field.

And we aren't even looking at the other 95% of the stratigraphic column. We've only just begun to scratch the surface. Every single number noted in the original post has its own sets of members. And even then as noted above, the original post leaves out Paleozoic formations and basically doesn't even mention the Mesozoic and Cenozoic formations. It literally just scratches the surface. And I'm not knocking the original post because nobody has time to open up every single formation. If you really got into the weeds you would be writing 50 pages of text on every single member. And this is just an internet forum so it's reasonable not to expect such things.

The dox formation is just one formation of dozens in this column, each formation containing its own unique grouping of individual complex members.

"Would be an issue if what you described was what was out there."

Well, surprise surprise. It is out there. And a whole lot more.

 

[Job 33:6]

And before someone says "well the stratigraphic column doesn't exist".

Actually it does exist.

I'll just preemptively say that most rocks are tilted in some fashion, so you have to walk or drive from one place to another to see the whole thing. To see the formation described in this thread, you would have to travel several kilometers.

 

[lifepsyop]

You're looking at the results of a global flooding event, where the sediments all over the world have been removed and deposited by currents of water.

You can see the same process on a micro-scale with real-time sedimentation experiments with water in a flume.

It is interesting to think that, based on these experiments, a Bible-believer who had never laid eyes on an actual geologic column could accurately predict what it would look like.

And old-earthers/evolutionists are left appealing to a strange coincidence that what they imagine to be hundreds of millions of years of deposited sedimentary layers looks so similar to layers formed rapidly.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

You're looking at the results of a global flooding event, where the sediments all over the world have been removed and deposited by currents of water.

You can see the same process on a micro-scale with real-time sedimentation experiments with water in a flume.

It is interesting to think that, based on these experiments, a Bible-believer who had never laid eyes on an actual geologic column could accurately predict what it would look like.

And old-earthers/evolutionists are left appealing to a strange coincidence that what they imagine to be hundreds of millions of years of deposited sedimentary layers looks so similar to layers formed rapidly.

I understand. But this does not explain layers of lava/magma interspersed between layers of sediment, sandstone, and limestone, along with erosion within the layers and tilting of some interspersed layers.
Thank you.

 

[lifepsyop]

I understand. But this does not explain layers of lava/magma interspersed between layers of sediment, sandstone, and limestone, along with erosion within the layers and tilting of some interspersed layers.
Thank you.

there are varied effects of water sedimentation. For example, water flowing up an incline can produce distinct crossbedding.
Sedimentary experiments: Preliminary report (ianjuby.org)

I imagine there were catastrophic scenarios happening during the worldwide flood of Genesis that we cannot even fathom at the moment. We are still surprised sometimes by the things that local weather disasters produce.

But as far as the evidence goes, the surface of the earth does look like it was born out of a sudden watery catastrophe. The evidence has always shown this, but a global flood is such a violation of philosophical uniformitarianism, that it cannot even be entertained as a possibility to consider.

Even relatively minor catastrophism was only begrudgingly accepted after long denial of the overwhelming evidence. (Missoula Floods) This helps show the overarching philosophical commitment there is in opposing any view of larger scales of catastrophism in earth's history. A global flood is simply out of the question, but not for a lack of evidence.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The geology as described have lava, that is Ignatius rock, laid down over sedimentary rock followed by more sedimentary rock. Some of the strata is tilted. This is not the result of a catastrophic flood. It indicates dry land followed long periods of continental drift and more day land and erosion. This simply cannot be accomplished in 120 days of flood. I believe in the flood, but the flood did not cause all these features.

there are varied effects of water sedimentation. For example, water flowing up an incline can produce distinct crossbedding.
Sedimentary experiments: Preliminary report (ianjuby.org)

I imagine there were catastrophic scenarios happening during the worldwide flood of Genesis that we cannot even fathom at the moment. We are still surprised sometimes by the things that local weather disasters produce.

But as far as the evidence goes, the surface of the earth does look like it was born out of a sudden watery catastrophe. The evidence has always shown this, but a global flood is such a violation of philosophical uniformitarianism, that it cannot even be entertained as a possibility to consider.

Even relatively minor catastrophism was only begrudgingly accepted after long denial of the overwhelming evidence. (Missoula Floods) This helps show the overarching philosophical commitment there is in opposing any view of larger scales of catastrophism in earth's history. A global flood is simply out of the question, but not for a lack of evidence.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Thanks again to all who have contributed. I must admit most of this is over my head! I wish I had more time to study and absorb it.

 

[Job 33:6]

Thanks again to all who have contributed. I must admit most of this is over my head! I wish I had more time to study and absorb it.

It's not too common to find someone who isn't a geologist, who has made sense of some of the superposition related concepts you've described. I appreciate your posts.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Thanks. I studied age of the earth and flood subjects for three hours a week for ten years. It does take a lot of thought.