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Geocentricity and Stellar Parallax

RichardT

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First and foremost, it must be stated that even if I didn't understand how stellar parallax worked within any Geocentric model, I would still believe that the earth absolutely did not move and that the sun went around the earth, I would try to run a hypothesis for why Parallax worked within the heliocentric coordinate system and not the Geocentric. But since this isn't the case, I am quite happy to note that there is in fact no problem with respect to Stellar Parallax in one Geocentric model. I would also like to thank Dr. Gerardus Dingeman Bouw for helping me understand.

To quote church reformer Martin Luther:

lutherff3.jpg


"Scripture simply says that the moon, the sun, and the stars were placed in the firmament of the heaven, below and above which heaven are the waters... It is likely that the stars are fastened to the firmament like globes of fire, to shed light at night... We Christians must be different from the philosophers in the way we think about the causes of things. And if some are beyond our comprehension like those before us concerning the waters above the heavens, we must believe them rather than wickedly deny them or presumptuously interpret them in conformity with our understanding."


- Martin Luther, Luther's Works. Vol. 1. Lectures on Genesis, ed. Janoslaw Pelikan, Concordia Pub. House, St. Louis, Missouri, 1958, pp. 30, 42, 43.

The following is an experiment that can be done very easily by anyone and will demonstrate that Stellar Parallax is in fact equal within the Modified Tycho Brahe System and the modern heliocentric / acentric view.

1. Extend one of your arms, stick one of your fingers up, and close one eye. Notice it's location with reference to the background (possibly best to do this looking through a window, to see distant trees or other random objects outside).

parallaxexperiment1ez8.jpg


2. While looking at your finger with your one eye, keeping the same position with respect to the background, move your head six inches left and right from your starting position. You'll notice that it will seem like the finger is moving with respect to the background, this is the heliocentric view of Stellar Parallax.

parallaxexperiment2zu1.jpg

parallax.jpg
 

RichardT

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3. Start in the same position as number 1. Instead of moving your head, move your finger 6 inches to the left and right from your starting position. You'll notice that the finger will move in the same way as what was observed in step 2 with respect to the background. This is the Geocentric interpretation, you'll note that if you were to measure the distances with respect to the more distant background, the angles are not going to be identical to the results in step 2.

parallaxexperiment2zu1.jpg


4. Start in the same position as in step 1. You'll have to use your imagination now. Imagine the entire room (universe) moving right and left with respect to your finger, this is identical to the Modified Tycho Brahe coordinate system because the universe is rotating everyday, while the sun's revolution takes 365 days. (the sun goes around the earth with the universe's rotation everyday)

parallaxexperiment4iq3.jpg

mtbshj0.jpg


To conclude, there really is no physical difference between the Geocentric model and the modern heliocentric view.
 
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Blayz

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Well RichardT, you do seem to have a slightly better grasp of the concept. However, your geocentric model is still fatally flawed because the parallax that would be observed in the geocentic model would occur every 24 hours, as the sun (and the attached firmament) completes its rotation every 24 hours.

Take as starting point the sun in summer in your diagram, and the end point the sun 12 hours later, in the same position vertically as the sun in winter but at the top of the spiral not at the bottom. The parallax in your picture would be similar to this case.

However, this is not what we observe. Parallax occurs over a year.


Secondly, "you'll note that if you were to measure the distances with respect to the more distant background, the angles are not going to be identical to the results in step 2."

When we measure these distances...guess which model worls?

Thirdly, " To conclude, there really is no physical difference between the Geocentric theory and the modern heliocentric view."

As I have pointed out your conclusion is completely false, but even if it were true, you have destroyed your own argument. Your case for the Earth at the centre of the universe is religious/biblical in nature, because the Earth is "special". To say the geocentric model is physically the same as the heliocentric model is to completely nullify the reason you are jumping through these badly laid out hoops in the first place.
 
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RichardT

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Take as starting point the sun in summer in your diagram, and the end point the sun 12 hours later, in the same position vertically as the sun in winter but at the top of the spiral not at the bottom. The parallax in your picture would be similar to this case.
Go through the experiment again, it seems you didn't understand. It is easily explained from this Geocentric coordinate system.

"you'll note that if you were to measure the distances with respect to the more distant background, the angles are not going to be identical to the results in step 2."

Do the measurements of the angles yourself within the experiment, the angles are simply not the same and this is why the Modified Tycho Brahe System works.

When we measure these distances...guess which model works?
Both account for it.
 
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Blayz

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Go through the experiment again, it seems you didn't understand. The sun revolves the earth every day but the parallax doesn't change everyday, it is easily explained from a Geocentric coordinate system.

Let me remind you you took Bouw's 10 fold scaling factor which he used for clarity and thought is was some ultimate truth. One of us does not understand the very simple diagram you have posted a half dozen times now, but it is not me.

Your model predicts the parallax changes every day, in each 12-hour division the sun (with its attached firmament is in the opposite position.
 
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lemmings

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Stellar parallax has not been solved, RichardT. The following 4 pictures represent the differences between a geocentric and heliocentric universe after 6 months. In the geocentric Universe the stars’ relative positions to each other have not changed and will not produce a parallax.


parralaxkz8.png



Image not to scale.
Blue dot = the Earth
Yellow dot = the Sun
Red dot = the Star that we are measuring
Green and purple dots= extremely distant stars which have smaller parallaxes.
 
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lemmings

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Go through the experiment again, it seems you didn't understand. The sun revolves the earth every day but the parallax doesn't change everyday, it is easily explained from a Geocentric coordinate system.
Is that what you said earlier?
Hint: If something returns to the same state every 24 hours, it will be in the same place 48 hours later and 4320 (24*180) hours later.
Thank you for pointing this out. Now it really doesn't seem to make any sense to me at all.


Do the measurements of the angles yourself within the experiment, the angles are simply not the same and this is why the Modified Tycho Brahe System works.
We (I) already have, Geocentricity failed this test.

Both account for it.
Heliocentrism works, but Geocentricity failed.
 
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lemmings

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Interesting things happen when you take this picture literally.

Mars assumes a highly elliptic orbit that can move it between .38 AU and 2.67 AU. Closer to the sun than Mercury, the second hottest planet in our system, and farther than the asteroid belt, an area that should be void of large objects. Yet the planet also remains colder than the Earth.

Mercury and Venus are on average farther from the Sun than the Earth, yet both of these planets have a surface tempura in excess of 800/900 degrees Fahrenheit. They also chose to orbit around a point where no body exists to gravitationally attract the planets.
 
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Frumious Bandersnatch

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3. Start in the same position as number 1. Instead of moving your head, move your finger 6 inches to the left and right from your starting position. You'll notice that the finger will move in the same way as what was observed in step 2 with respect to the background. This is the Geocentric interpretation, you'll note that if you were to measure the distances with respect to the more distant background, the angles are not going to be identical to the results in step 2.

parallaxexperiment2zu1.jpg

mtbsparallaxog4.jpg


4. Start in the same position as in step 1. You'll have to use your imagination now. Imagine the entire room (universe) moving right and left with respect to your finger, this is identical to the Modified Tycho Brahe coordinate system because the universe is being carried with the sun, while the sun is going around the earth everyday.




To conclude, there really is no physical difference between the Geocentric theory and the modern heliocentric view.
Richard, do you know what ad hoc means? Of course ad hoc explanations are supposed to actually work for their purpose if for nothing else and as others have pointed out this one doesn't.

Also I am still waiting for your explanation of why the rate that the entire universe whizzes around the earth each day varies slightly with the season of the year and how it can be changed slightly by massive earthquakes and why it is slowing down at just the rate one one expect if it were actually the rotation of the earth being slowed by tidal coupling to the moon and why no experiment has ever been able to actually detect this "ether" you keep talking about.
 
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Maxwell511

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Why are we still talking about stellar parallax? The system he proposes contains an earth that does not rotate. This has massive effects on things going on here on earth, which cannot be brush aside with relative motion, if the earth is at a stand still.

For example, why is the distance from sea level to the centre of the earth greater at the equator than it is an the poles?
 
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Chalnoth

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Why are we still talking about stellar parallax? The system he proposes contains an earth that does not rotate. This has massive effects on things going on here on earth, which cannot be brush aside with relative motion, if the earth is at a stand still.

For example, why is the distance from sea level to the centre of the earth greater at the equator than it is an the poles?
Yup. Then there's the Coriolis effect, that little thing that causes tornadoes, hurricanes, and other storms to swirl.
 
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Maxwell511

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Yup. Then there's the Coriolis effect, that little thing that causes tornadoes, hurricanes, and other storms to swirl.

There's another. Here is one more:

Why does an aeroplane flying eastwards experience a lower acceleration due to gravity as one flying westwards, called the Eötvös effect?
 
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Atheuz

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I can't believe there's actually a debate on geocentricism.

I'm amazed.

This isn't a debate, it's somewhat like hearing Dumb and Dumber trying to argue that Gravity is wrong by using arguments like "i can throw rocks into the sky and i don't see or hear them fall down again cos i close my eyes and put fingers into my ears and loudly sing lalalalala therefore gravity is wrong!"
 
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