Gentrification

[Ken-1122]

Gentrification sounds great because you get these cool neighborhoods with lots of things to go see and do on your day-trips to the big city. The downside is that it often displaces poor people (it doesn't raise their standard of living, it just makes the area too expensive for them to remain in).

If gentrification meant that raised the level of living for the current residents instead of creating a space occupied by people who are wealthy and move in then it would be a different conversation

It does raise the standard of living of the poor people who own in that neighborhood.

 

[Ken-1122]

Pretty much what happens in San Francisco where people aren't able to live in or near the city and have to commute long distances to work.
In some places that isn't an issue since there is room to expand cities but in others there is simply no room to expand out. SF and NYC for example. It's not like people are throwing up high rise tenements left and right.
Frankly though this is a very simple thing to find out and your moral compass is horrible.

How does gentrification prevent people from living near the City? And why is my moral compass horrible?

 

[Radagast]

Replacing beautiful, individually designed Creole-style family homes from the 1870s with condo hi-rises built by the same corporations that are gentrifying every city from Boston to Austin to San Francisco.

That's a separate issue. In many cities, such homes are heritage-listed; they can be renovated inside, but not lose their exterior appearance.

 

[Ken-1122]

This assumes that

1. Renters aren't somehow invested in the place they live (false)

2. Renters have an easy and equitable market to choose from as if nothing else matters (where their kids are going to school, where their jobs are, access to transportation and groceries, etc.).

How are renters financially invested in the neighborhood?

 

[Radagast]

Pretty much what happens in San Francisco where people aren't able to live in or near the city and have to commute long distances to work.

Having to commute long distances to work is the reality for most city-dwellers in the world.

 

[istodolez]

How are renters financially invested in the neighborhood?

That's a very strange question indeed. But the clever construction of the question shows that this isn't a legitimate discussion of the topic.

As such I won't bother to respond to it in any meaningful way.

 

[JIMINZ]

It also makes for a great wealth creation engine; you can buy a house with borrowed money (the bank sees that it's an appreciating asset), renovate it (if you have taste and don't mind working with your hands), then sell at a profit.

It isn't a matter of individual people doing the work on their own place, it's the Developers who do the Renovating and the selling to new tenants or owners thus driving out the people who have lived in the (Tenement Building ) for years and could not get any Renovation of any sort done in their individual Apartments, the Buildings become soooo run down the Developers swoop in and buy them for a song, then the Renovation and Evictions begin.

I don't think this is a Phenomenon you would witness in Australia, it's something that is done mainly in the Inner Cities of Metropolitan Centers like NYC, Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago etc. it's done by driving the Blacks out for more upper class whites, it's designed to change the Demographic of who lives in the Inner Cities and bring in Tourism (Revenue) the only one who makes any money is the Developer, meanwhile thousands of Blacks not only lose their houses (as bad as the may be) but they lose their Community as well friends, neighbors, Church, and the Religious Community that goes with it.

The Love of Money is the ROOT of ALL EVIL

 

[JIMINZ]

Gen-tri-fi-ca-tion
(noun)
The process of renovating and improving housing or a district so that it conforms to middle-class taste

Why is this usually seen as a bad thing? Especially when compared to the opposite; to ruin a middle class district so that it no longer conforms to middle-class taste.
Your thoughts?

To clarify what your talking about.

Give an example of a particular Neighborhood in a specific City.

 

[JIMINZ]

What’s stopping you from just taking your rent money and going somewhere else?

Poverty, ever hear of it?

 

[Radagast]

It isn't a matter of individual people doing the work on their own place

It certainly is in Australia. In both countries, if you own your own home, you can always renovate and sell up.

For home-owners, gentrification is a gold mine (although the degree of profit depends on talent and on timing).

it's the Developers who do the Renovating and the selling to new tenants or owners thus driving out the people who have lived in the (Tenement Building ) for years and could not get any Renovation of any sort done in their individual Apartments, the Buildings become soooo run down the Developers swoop in and buy them for a song, then the Renovation and Evictions begin.

I believe you're talking about people who rent there. The prevalence of rent control in US cities means that owners of apartments are often very eager to sell up "for a song."

I don't think this is a Phenomenon you would witness in Australia, it's something that is done mainly in the Inner Cities of Metropolitan Centers like NYC, Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago etc.

This may surprise you, but we have large cities in Australia. It's not all kangaroos and men in Akubra hats.

Here's a gentrified inner-city neighbourhood in Sydney, Australia.

it's done by driving the Blacks out for more upper class whites, it's designed to change the Demographic of who lives in the Inner Cities and bring in Tourism (Revenue)

There's a mixture of confusion and conspiracy theory there.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

I think gentrification is more nuanced that many people make it out to be - it's not so much a grand plan to kick certain demographics out of an area, as a side effect.

A lot of gentrification actually has to do with the rise of "knowledge workers", a change in the makeup of families, the decline of manufacturing in western countries (many factories were located in inner-city areas) and changes in how people spend their leisure.

And many suburbs have seen multiple communities over the last hundred years or so - at least where I live.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

But in order to replace those mom and pop type stores, in order to replace those 150 year old houses, the people who owned those places (invested) get bought out for a lot of money. So it’s good for the people invested in the neighborhood.

Who, much more often that not, don't live in the neighborhood. Sometimes they don't even live in the same country as the neighborhood.

Again, if you stop thinking in terms only of monetary investment, your question will answer itself.

If someone is living in the luxury suite, it is providing housing, even if it is only a second home for some rich guy.

And you think that's ok then, I take it. To contribute to the displacement of a community so one or two tech bros can have "luxury suites"?

Gosh, I just can't fathom why people would be opposed to that. Such a mystery.

I doubt someone is gonna spend millions luxury suites with the intent of it remaining empty

I guess you've never heard of tax shelters.

By definition, investment is about finances.

Man, you really love your arguments from definition, don't you?

Dictionaries are records of usage. Yes, colloquially speaking, when we speak of investment, we are usually talking about money.

But don't pretend like you've never heard of investing one's time, one's energy, one's passion, one's love, etc...if you take time to consider such things, you may find that the mystery of why people generally don't like gentrification will solve itself.

If it's never even occurred to you to think in these terms, I don't know what to say, except that I'm sorry you've never been part of a localized community that you thought was worth preserving. Maybe you will some day.

 

[Ken-1122]

I don't think this is a Phenomenon you would witness in Australia, it's something that is done mainly in the Inner Cities of Metropolitan Centers like NYC, Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago etc.

Actually gentrification is done in countless cities that have run down neighborhoods.

it's done by driving the Blacks out for more upper class whites,

More like driving out the poor, replacing them with the rich. Not all poor are black, not all rich are white, and not all neighborhoods gentrified are majority black either. Plenty of poor white neighborhoods getting gentrified also

it's designed to change the Demographic of who lives in the Inner Cities and bring in Tourism (Revenue) the only one who makes any money is the Developer,

The people who are financially invested in the neighborhood makes money.

meanwhile thousands of Blacks not only lose their houses (as bad as the may be) but they lose their Community as well friends, neighbors, Church, and the Religious Community that goes with it.

The dynamics of neighborhoods change all the time. Often it happens the opposite way where middle class neighborhoods begin accepting renters who don’t take care of the property, which brings down the value of the neighborhood, then the middle class moves out and the poor move in who often bring crime with them; then all those invested in the neighborhood lose not only their community of friends, neighbors, church and religious community, but their lifetime financial investment as well.

The Love of Money is the ROOT of ALL EVIL

No, the lack of money is the root of all evil[/quote][/QUOTE]

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

That's a separate issue.

No, it's very much a common part of gentrification.

In many cities, such homes are heritage-listed; they can be renovated inside, but not lose their exterior appearance.

Yes, I know. In Boston for example, if a house was built before a certain year (I forget exactly when), you can do anything to the interior provided you keep the facade intact.

That's almost more insulting, in a way.

 

[Radagast]

I think gentrification is more nuanced that many people make it out to be - it's not so much a grand plan to kick certain demographics out of an area, as a side effect.

Indeed.

And many suburbs have seen multiple communities over the last hundred years or so - at least where I live.

Exactly. Often in parallel with the kind of industry going on in the area. Prices drop as factories open up, and rise as factories are replaced by "knowledge workers," as you say.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

I don't think this is a Phenomenon you would witness in Australia

I suspect it's different in part due to the public housing system we have versus the US, which I understand is a private one. Poor people here can access public housing, though there is wait list to get in to certain areas.

 

[Radagast]

No, it's very much a common part of gentrification.

It's independent. Some cities have strong heritage rules, some don't.

Yes, I know. In Boston for example, if a house was built before a certain year (I forget exactly when), you can do anything to the interior provided you keep the facade intact.

That's almost more insulting, in a way.

I don't know why you call it insulting. You get really nice houses that way (not that I could ever afford one).

https://www.realestate.com.au/buy/property-house-in-surry+hills,+nsw+2010/list-1

 

[JIMINZ]

Gentrification.

Kind of makes me think of the days before the Civil War, sort of like the
Antebellum houses of the Plantation.

Who was it that coined the word to begin with, to describe what is taking place?

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Yes, I know. In Boston for example, if a house was built before a certain year (I forget exactly when), you can do anything to the interior provided you keep the facade intact.

That's almost more insulting, in a way.

Heritage is always a trade-off. Keeping interiors original is great for people who love heritage, but not so great if you're living there, especially when it comes to older houses. Maintaining the facade works as a compromise, though in certain cases here more extensive heritage orders are in place depending on the property.

I love terraces, but I've seen enough as a child to know that most have small, damp, poorly lit and ventilated rooms. Also outside toilets aren't much fun in winter

 

[Ken-1122]

To clarify what your talking about.

Give an example of a particular Neighborhood in a specific City.

Years ago I invested in an economically oppressed neighborhood as investment property. After a half dozen or so years of various renters, some people from California came in and began offering to buy up the houses and began to improve the area. By the time they came around to buy my place, the house I bought had increased in value and I was able to sell at a huge profit and afford to invest in a better neighborhood.