Genetic Code is INFORMATION: Proof of Intelligent Design

ftacky

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The genetic sciences in our 21st Century has left no reasonable doubt as to the question of God's existence. God does indeed exist, and the evidence is overwhelming for those with an open mind.

INFORMATION is different from other things in that although it is stored by a physical entity, such as a brain, a USB drive, a piece of paper, or a DNA molecule, INFORMATION itself it is not a physical entity. Because our genetic code is a highly complex form of INFORMATION stored in the cell, and since all information requires an intelligent source, this provides solid evidence for an intelligent designer.

1) NASA and SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) use this same scientific principle to search for intelligent life, that INFORMATION implies an intelligent source.

In the following SETI article, they discuss how a signal from space directs them toward the conclusion that intelligent life has been discovered or not, based on whether the signal actually represents information (as opposed to background noise). SETI scientists discuss how they would use the same principles to try and return their communication:

"A continuous narrowband beacon carries only one bit of information (that
the alien civilization exists) and carry zero symbol rate after the beacon is discovered. In
contrast, modest to wide bandwidth signals can support modest to large symbol rates
(information rates)."

"Once the beacon is discovered, the focus turns to information extraction."

"When designing a signal for interstellar transmission to an unknown but technologically
competent species, we must consider how that species (e.g. humans) might discover the signal as
distinct from the galactic background radiation."

"At the same time, most SETI researchers suspect that an extra-solar civilization will wish
to communicate nontrivial information to humans. Until now, the primary focus of radio SETI
observations has been narrowband signals or strong broadband pulses. These signals can be used
only for “beacons,” since they convey no “message” beyond a single symbol of information. It is
usually suggested that the message information will be communicated in an entirely different
signal mode (or with extremely low symbol rate consistent with the narrowband criterion)."

(Ref: Harp, Gerald R., et al. 'A new class of SETI beacons that contain information. Communication with Extraterrestrial Intelligence'. 2011)

2) Our genetic code qualifies as a language:

"Scientists have found the genetic code has all of these key elements (of a language). The coding regions of DNA have precisely the same relevant properties as a computer code or language."

"The only other codes found to be true languages are all of human origin. Although we do find that dogs bark when they recognize danger, bees tap dance to point other bees to a source and whales release sounds, just to name a few examples of other species' communication, none fo these have the composition of a language. They are only considered low-level communication signals."

"The only types of communication considered high level are, (1) human languages and (2) artificial languages, namely computer and morse codes and the genetic code. No other communication system has been found to contain the basic characteristics of a language."

(Ref: L.D. Virgilio, 'The Little Code that Confirms the End of Evolution')

3) Even skeptics have abandoned their atheism for this reason. Sir Antony Flew, the late world-famous philosopher who had been the leading atheist in England, renounced his atheism a few years back and accepted the existence of God.

Regarding whether recent research on DNA had influenced his change of mind, he said: “Yes, I now think it does … almost entirely because of the DNA investigations. What I think the DNA material has done is that it has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce (life), that intelligence must have been involved in getting these extraordinarily diverse elements to work together” ( There Is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind , 2007, p. 75).

“Why do I believe this, given that I expounded and defended atheism for more than a half century? The short answer is this: this is the world picture, as I see it, that has emerged from modern science. Science spotlights three dimensions of nature that point to God. The first is the fact that nature obeys laws. The second is the dimension of life, of intelligently organized and purpose-driven beings, which arose from matter. The third is the very existence of nature” (pp. 88-89).

4) So what form of information is our genetic code? It is a DIGITAL language.

a) "All present life is based on digitally encoded information.” - National Academy of Sciences (PNAS)

Whereas our computing devices are programmed using a binary digital coding system, our human genetic code is considered by some analysts to be a quaternary digital coding system, due to the four DNA bases A,C,T, and G.

b) “The genome functions in a hierarchical fashion. The DNA molecule is only the first level; chromatin [cell nucleus contents of DNA with accompanying proteins] organization is a second level; and the position of chromosomes within the nucleus is a third level … There is evidence at all three levels that non-protein-coding DNA performs functions that are independent of its exact sequence”

"(DNA is) bidirectional, multilayered, and interleaved, rather than simply linear … The organization of DNA strings along the genome is optimized for the establishment of multidimensional codes at all scales.” - Molecular biologist Jonathan Wells

c) “DNA is like a computer program but far, far more advanced than any software ever created.” - Bill Gates, Founder of Microsoft

5) How much information is contained in our cells?

a) "The information content of a simple cell had been estimated as around 10^12 bits, comparable to about a hundred million pages of the Encyclopedia Britannica."
— Carl Sagan

b) “There is enough information capacity in a single human cell to store the Encyclopedia Britannica, all 30 volumes of it, three or four times over.”
— Richard Dawkins

Conclusion:

a) “In ALL cases where we know the causal origin of ‘high information content,’ experience has shown that intelligent design played a causal role.”

"No physical or chemical law dictates the order of the nucleotide bases in our DNA, and the sequences are highly improbable and complex. Yet the coding regions of DNA exhibit very unlikely sequential arrangements of bases that match the precise pattern necessary to produce functional proteins. Experiments have found that the sequence of nucleotide bases in our DNA must be extremely precise in order to generate a functional protein. The odds of a random sequence of amino acids generating a functional protein is less than 1 in 10 to the 70th power. In other words, our DNA contains high CSI (complex and specified information)." - Stephen C. Meyer

b) "Each cell with genetic information, from bacteria to man, according to molecular biologist Michael Denton, consists of “artificial languages and their decoding systems, memory banks for information storage and retrieval, elegant control systems regulating the automated assembly of parts and components, error fail-safe and proof-reading devices utilized for quality control, assembly processes involving the principle of prefabrication and modular construction … [and a] capacity not equalled in any of our most advanced machines, for it would be capable of replicating its entire structure within a matter of a few hours” (Denton, p. 329).
So how could the genetic information of bacteria gradually evolve into information for another type of being, when only one or a few minor mistakes in the millions of letters in that bacterium's DNA can kill it?"

"Evolutionists don't even have a working hypothesis about it. Lee Strobel writes: “The six feet of DNA coiled inside every one of our body's one hundred trillion cells contains a four-letter chemical alphabet that spells out precise assembly instructions for all the proteins from which our bodies are made … No hypothesis has come close to explaining how information got into biological matter by naturalistic means” (Strobel, p. 282).

"Werner Gitt, professor of information systems, puts it succinctly: “The basic flaw of all evolutionary views is the origin of the information in living beings. It has never been shown that a coding system and semantic information could originate by itself [through matter] … The information theorems predict that this will never be possible. A purely material origin of life is thus [ruled out]” (Gitt, p. 124).

"In addition, the copying mechanism of DNA, to meet maximum effectiveness, requires the number of letters in each word to be an even number. Of all possible mathematical combinations, the ideal number for storage and transcription has been calculated to be four letters. This is exactly what has been found in the genes of every living thing on earth—a four-letter digital code. As Werner Gitt states: “The coding system used for living beings is optimal from an engineering standpoint. This fact strengthens the argument that it was a case of purposeful design rather that a [lucky] chance” (Gitt, p. 95).

"Back in Darwin's day, when his book On the Origin of Species was published in 1859, life appeared much simpler. Viewed through the primitive microscopes of the day, the cell appeared to be but a simple blob of jelly or uncomplicated protoplasm. Now, almost 150 years later, that view has changed dramatically as science has discovered a virtual universe inside the cell."

“It was once expected,” writes Professor Behe, “that the basis of life would be exceedingly simple. That expectation has been smashed. Vision, motion, and other biological functions have proven to be no less sophisticated than television cameras and automobiles. Science has made enormous progress in understanding how the chemistry of life works, but the elegance and complexity of biological systems at the molecular level have paralyzed science's attempt to explain their origins” (Behe).

"Dr. Meyer considers the recent discoveries about DNA as the Achilles” heel of evolutionary theory. He observes: “Evolutionists are still trying to apply Darwin's nineteenth-century thinking to a twenty-first century reality, and it's not working … I think the information revolution taking place in biology is sounding the death knell for Darwinism and chemical evolutionary theories” (quoted by Strobel, p. 243).

(Ref: UCG.org<http://www.ucg.org/> / The Good News<http://www.ucg.org/the-good-news> / DNA: The Tiny Code That's Toppling Evolution)

Bottom Line: Our genetic code is a massive set of instructions - so we have to ask ourselves: Have we ever seen instructions write themselves? Of course not. Instructions require someone with a mind who knows how to write them. Who knows and understands all the instructions in our DNA?

No reasonable open-minded person in our 21st century who has access to the discoveries of science regarding this massive set of INSTRUCTIONS in our DNA should still be asking for evidence of God's existence.

Psalm 139: I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.
 
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Speedwell

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While I believe God is intelligent and that he designed us, I don't see DNA as proof of it.
Pay no attention. It's nothing but sciencey-sounding nonsense and mined quotes designed to misrepresent the role played by real Information Theory in understanding molecular biology.
 
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ftacky

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Here is another article by Genome News Networking which confirms our genetic code is classified as a language.

So we must ask ourselves, in our real-world experiences, are languages generated by anything other than non-intellectual sources?

"Genome sequencing is often compared to "decoding," but a sequence is still very much in code. In a sense, a genome sequence is simply a very long string of letters in a mysterious language."

"When you read a sentence, the meaning is not just in the sequence of the letters. It is also in the words those letters make and in the grammar of the language. Similarly,the human genome is more than just its sequence."

"So sequencing the genome doesn't immediately lay open the genetic secrets of an entire species. Even with a rough draft of the human genome sequence in hand, much work remains to be done. Scientists still have to translate those strings of letters into an understanding of how the genome works: what the various genes that make up the genome do, how different genes are related, and how the various parts of the genome are coordinated. That is, they have to figure out what those letters of the genome sequence mean."

Final Note: If scientists must 'translate' the genetic code, this also confirms it is a language indeed.

(ref: Genome News Networking, Genome Sequencing)
 
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JacksBratt

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The genetic sciences in our 21st Century has left no reasonable doubt as to the question of God's existence. God does indeed exist, and the evidence is overwhelming for those with an open mind.

INFORMATION is different from other things in that although it is stored by a physical entity, such as a brain, a USB drive, a piece of paper, or a DNA molecule, INFORMATION itself it is not a physical entity. Because our genetic code is a highly complex form of INFORMATION stored in the cell, and since all information requires an intelligent source, this provides solid evidence for an intelligent designer.

1) NASA and SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) use this same scientific principle to search for intelligent life, that INFORMATION implies an intelligent source.

In the following SETI article, they discuss how a signal from space directs them toward the conclusion that intelligent life has been discovered or not, based on whether the signal actually represents information (as opposed to background noise). SETI scientists discuss how they would use the same principles to try and return their communication:

"A continuous narrowband beacon carries only one bit of information (that
the alien civilization exists) and carry zero symbol rate after the beacon is discovered. In
contrast, modest to wide bandwidth signals can support modest to large symbol rates
(information rates)."

"Once the beacon is discovered, the focus turns to information extraction."

"When designing a signal for interstellar transmission to an unknown but technologically
competent species, we must consider how that species (e.g. humans) might discover the signal as
distinct from the galactic background radiation."

"At the same time, most SETI researchers suspect that an extra-solar civilization will wish
to communicate nontrivial information to humans. Until now, the primary focus of radio SETI
observations has been narrowband signals or strong broadband pulses. These signals can be used
only for “beacons,” since they convey no “message” beyond a single symbol of information. It is
usually suggested that the message information will be communicated in an entirely different
signal mode (or with extremely low symbol rate consistent with the narrowband criterion)."

(Ref: Harp, Gerald R., et al. 'A new class of SETI beacons that contain information. Communication with Extraterrestrial Intelligence'. 2011)

2) Our genetic code qualifies as a language:

"Scientists have found the genetic code has all of these key elements (of a language). The coding regions of DNA have precisely the same relevant properties as a computer code or language."

"The only other codes found to be true languages are all of human origin. Although we do find that dogs bark when they recognize danger, bees tap dance to point other bees to a source and whales release sounds, just to name a few examples of other species' communication, none fo these have the composition of a language. They are only considered low-level communication signals."

"The only types of communication considered high level are, (1) human languages and (2) artificial languages, namely computer and morse codes and the genetic code. No other communication system has been found to contain the basic characteristics of a language."

(Ref: L.D. Virgilio, 'The Little Code that Confirms the End of Evolution')

3) Even skeptics have abandoned their atheism for this reason. Sir Antony Flew, the late world-famous philosopher who had been the leading atheist in England, renounced his atheism a few years back and accepted the existence of God.

Regarding whether recent research on DNA had influenced his change of mind, he said: “Yes, I now think it does … almost entirely because of the DNA investigations. What I think the DNA material has done is that it has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce (life), that intelligence must have been involved in getting these extraordinarily diverse elements to work together” ( There Is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind , 2007, p. 75).

“Why do I believe this, given that I expounded and defended atheism for more than a half century? The short answer is this: this is the world picture, as I see it, that has emerged from modern science. Science spotlights three dimensions of nature that point to God. The first is the fact that nature obeys laws. The second is the dimension of life, of intelligently organized and purpose-driven beings, which arose from matter. The third is the very existence of nature” (pp. 88-89).

4) So what form of information is our genetic code? It is a DIGITAL language.

a) "All present life is based on digitally encoded information.” - National Academy of Sciences (PNAS)

Whereas our computing devices are programmed using a binary digital coding system, our human genetic code is considered by some analysts to be a quaternary digital coding system, due to the four DNA bases A,C,T, and G.

b) “The genome functions in a hierarchical fashion. The DNA molecule is only the first level; chromatin [cell nucleus contents of DNA with accompanying proteins] organization is a second level; and the position of chromosomes within the nucleus is a third level … There is evidence at all three levels that non-protein-coding DNA performs functions that are independent of its exact sequence”

"(DNA is) bidirectional, multilayered, and interleaved, rather than simply linear … The organization of DNA strings along the genome is optimized for the establishment of multidimensional codes at all scales.” - Molecular biologist Jonathan Wells

c) “DNA is like a computer program but far, far more advanced than any software ever created.” - Bill Gates, Founder of Microsoft

5) How much information is contained in our cells?

a) "The information content of a simple cell had been estimated as around 10^12 bits, comparable to about a hundred million pages of the Encyclopedia Britannica."
— Carl Sagan

b) “There is enough information capacity in a single human cell to store the Encyclopedia Britannica, all 30 volumes of it, three or four times over.”
— Richard Dawkins

Conclusion:

a) “In ALL cases where we know the causal origin of ‘high information content,’ experience has shown that intelligent design played a causal role.”

"No physical or chemical law dictates the order of the nucleotide bases in our DNA, and the sequences are highly improbable and complex. Yet the coding regions of DNA exhibit very unlikely sequential arrangements of bases that match the precise pattern necessary to produce functional proteins. Experiments have found that the sequence of nucleotide bases in our DNA must be extremely precise in order to generate a functional protein. The odds of a random sequence of amino acids generating a functional protein is less than 1 in 10 to the 70th power. In other words, our DNA contains high CSI (complex and specified information)." - Stephen C. Meyer

b) "Each cell with genetic information, from bacteria to man, according to molecular biologist Michael Denton, consists of “artificial languages and their decoding systems, memory banks for information storage and retrieval, elegant control systems regulating the automated assembly of parts and components, error fail-safe and proof-reading devices utilized for quality control, assembly processes involving the principle of prefabrication and modular construction … [and a] capacity not equalled in any of our most advanced machines, for it would be capable of replicating its entire structure within a matter of a few hours” (Denton, p. 329).
So how could the genetic information of bacteria gradually evolve into information for another type of being, when only one or a few minor mistakes in the millions of letters in that bacterium's DNA can kill it?"

"Evolutionists don't even have a working hypothesis about it. Lee Strobel writes: “The six feet of DNA coiled inside every one of our body's one hundred trillion cells contains a four-letter chemical alphabet that spells out precise assembly instructions for all the proteins from which our bodies are made … No hypothesis has come close to explaining how information got into biological matter by naturalistic means” (Strobel, p. 282).

"Werner Gitt, professor of information systems, puts it succinctly: “The basic flaw of all evolutionary views is the origin of the information in living beings. It has never been shown that a coding system and semantic information could originate by itself [through matter] … The information theorems predict that this will never be possible. A purely material origin of life is thus [ruled out]” (Gitt, p. 124).

"In addition, the copying mechanism of DNA, to meet maximum effectiveness, requires the number of letters in each word to be an even number. Of all possible mathematical combinations, the ideal number for storage and transcription has been calculated to be four letters. This is exactly what has been found in the genes of every living thing on earth—a four-letter digital code. As Werner Gitt states: “The coding system used for living beings is optimal from an engineering standpoint. This fact strengthens the argument that it was a case of purposeful design rather that a [lucky] chance” (Gitt, p. 95).

"Back in Darwin's day, when his book On the Origin of Species was published in 1859, life appeared much simpler. Viewed through the primitive microscopes of the day, the cell appeared to be but a simple blob of jelly or uncomplicated protoplasm. Now, almost 150 years later, that view has changed dramatically as science has discovered a virtual universe inside the cell."

“It was once expected,” writes Professor Behe, “that the basis of life would be exceedingly simple. That expectation has been smashed. Vision, motion, and other biological functions have proven to be no less sophisticated than television cameras and automobiles. Science has made enormous progress in understanding how the chemistry of life works, but the elegance and complexity of biological systems at the molecular level have paralyzed science's attempt to explain their origins” (Behe).

"Dr. Meyer considers the recent discoveries about DNA as the Achilles” heel of evolutionary theory. He observes: “Evolutionists are still trying to apply Darwin's nineteenth-century thinking to a twenty-first century reality, and it's not working … I think the information revolution taking place in biology is sounding the death knell for Darwinism and chemical evolutionary theories” (quoted by Strobel, p. 243).

(Ref: UCG.org<http://www.ucg.org/> / The Good News<http://www.ucg.org/the-good-news> / DNA: The Tiny Code That's Toppling Evolution)

Bottom Line: Our genetic code is a massive set of instructions - so we have to ask ourselves: Have we ever seen instructions write themselves? Of course not. Instructions require someone with a mind who knows how to write them. Who knows and understands all the instructions in our DNA?

No reasonable open-minded person in our 21st century who has access to the discoveries of science regarding this massive set of INSTRUCTIONS in our DNA should still be asking for evidence of God's existence.

Psalm 139: I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.

Well said.

I find it confusing as to how people are so bent on refusing to see ID in the complexity and order of DNA. Someone who does not see ID in DNA must be simply oblivious as to it's significance.

I am always surprised when people see SETI looking for simple organized patterns to signify the existence of intelligent life yet totally disregard the vast organization of the information in DNA.

If SETI received a signal from space with a similarity of even 0.01% of the information and organization found in DNA, they would lose their minds. It would be front page headlines around the world. Text books would change, peace prizes handed out, space programs implemented to go find this source of solid proof of intelligent life "out there somewhere. Yet, we carry, in every cell of our body, the ultra complex code of DNA. Solid proof of ID.

Atheist's who don't believe are one thing. Self proclaimed Christians who deny DNA as evidence for ID..... boggles my mind.
 
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Speedwell

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Well said.

I find it confusing as to how people are so bent on refusing to see ID in the complexity and order of DNA. Someone who does not see ID in DNA must be simply oblivious as to it's significance.

I am always surprised when people see SETI looking for simple organized patterns to signify the existence of intelligent life yet totally disregard the vast organization of the information in DNA.

If SETI received a signal from space with a similarity of even 0.01% of the information and organization found in DNA, they would lose their minds. It would be front page headlines around the world. Text books would change, peace prizes handed out, space programs implemented to go find this source of solid proof of intelligent life "out there somewhere. Yet, we carry, in every cell of our body, the ultra complex code of DNA. Solid proof of ID.

Atheist's who don't believe are one thing. Self proclaimed Christians who deny DNA as evidence for ID..... boggles my mind.
You do understand, I hope, that it is possible for us "so-called Christians" to believe that the universe was designed and created by God but still reject the fraudulent arguments and cherry picked quotes as exemplified by the OP.
 
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JacksBratt

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You do understand, I hope, that it is possible for us "so-called Christians" to believe that the universe was designed and created by God but still reject the fraudulent arguments and cherry picked quotes as exemplified by the OP.
Can you show me which arguments are fraudulent?
 
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Speedwell

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Can you show me which arguments are fraudulent?
It's all straight from the Discovery Institute, which should be evidence enough. The basic ploy is to misrepresent Information Theory to people who don't know much about it.
 
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JacksBratt

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It's all straight from the Discovery Institute, which should be evidence enough. The basic ploy is to misrepresent Information Theory to people who don't know much about it.
I don't understand. What is the Discovery Institute and this information telling you, by way of it being from the Discovery institute?
 
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Speedwell

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I don't understand. What is the Discovery Institute and this information telling you, by way of it being from the Discovery institute?
It is by way of an example of how Information Theory is misrepresented to support the claim that information can only be created by an intelligence, a claim which Information Theory does not make.
 
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JacksBratt

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It is by way of an example of how Information Theory is misrepresented to support the claim that information can only be created by an intelligence, a claim which Information Theory does not make.
Sorry, I must have misunderstood. It seemed like your post insinuated that the information was fraudulent due to the fact that it's source was "the Discovery Institute".

Your post stated "It's all straight from the Discovery Institute, which should be evidence enough".

What did you mean by that. You haven't given an example of how "information theory" has been misrepresented. You have just told me that the source should be evidence enough.

Why is this source "evidence enough"?
 
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Speedwell

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Sorry, I must have misunderstood. It seemed like your post insinuated that the information was fraudulent due to the fact that it's source was "the Discovery Institute".

Your post stated "It's all straight from the Discovery Institute, which should be evidence enough".
It's all laid out in the transcript of Kitzmiller v. Dover. Read it.

What did you mean by that. You haven't given an example of how "information theory" has been misrepresented. .
Information Theory is misrepresented to support the claim that information can only be created by an intelligence, a claim which Information Theory does not make.
 
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JacksBratt

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It's all laid out in the transcript of Kitzmiller v. Dover. Read it.

Information Theory is misrepresented to support the claim that information can only be created by an intelligence, a claim which Information Theory does not make.
Ok, so the people who created the Information Theory" don't claim that information can only be created by intelligence.
What do you say? Do you think that information, like what we see contained in the DNA of every living organism, could happen by chance? Forget the theory and the people who wrote it or study it. What do you, as an intelligent person believe?

You already stated that "it is possible for us "so-called Christians" to believe that the universe was designed and created by God". So why would you side against a belief that DNA is proof of ID? Proof of a creator?

You did include yourself as a Christian when you said "us". Which also was testimony of your belief in a universe created by God.

I'm not going to use the term "common sense" as it is pretty much extinct and if not extinct any point based on "common sense" will be defeated by those that have none.

However, to understand the vast complexity of the DNA molecule, on it's own, not to mention the odds against even one protein molecule forming by chance let alone all the essential amino acids necessary for life forming and in enough quantity to form even a single celled organism, but to add to the odds that DNA would also have to form by chance as well..... in the words of Vizinni of "The Princess Bride" is "inconceivable".

For a person who is a Christian and believes that the universe was created by our God to say that DNA is not proof of ID, causes me to believe that our academic program is doing far too much damage to the ability of our young people to think for themselves.

If the coveted "Information theory" claims anything related to DNA not being proof of ID then the theory is, like a lot of so called "science" these days, ignoring observations just because it points to a creator.

If they go to mars and find as much as a paper clip, they will lose their minds in confirmation of intelligent life being there before us. Yet, we have DNA and it is not considered to be evidence of an intelligent designer...

To top it all off, we have Christians who go along with it.
 
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Speedwell

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Ok, so the people who created the Information Theory" don't claim that information can only be created by intelligence.
What do you say? Do you think that information, like what we see contained in the DNA of every living organism, could happen by chance? Forget the theory and the people who wrote it or study it. What do you, as an intelligent person believe?
Too late for an ordinary layman's opinion, I'm afraid. I have an undergraduate degree in math and understand IT as well as anybody at that level not specialized in the field. I know that information can be created without intelligence, and not "by chance." Evolution by by random variation and selection is what is know as "Markov process" and is quite capable of generating the necessary complexity. The math is rock solid.

You already stated that "it is possible for us "so-called Christians" to believe that the universe was designed and created by God". So why would you side against a belief that DNA is proof of ID? Proof of a creator?
Because my faith does not need to be supported by bogus arguments, even if some people find them persuasive. In this case, too many people know they are bogus, and such things give Christianity a bad rep.

You did include yourself as a Christian when you said "us". Which also was testimony of your belief in a universe created by God.
Of course.

I'm not going to use the term "common sense" as it is pretty much extinct and if not extinct any point based on "common sense" will be defeated by those that have none.
Just as well. Too many scientific discoveries defy "common sense." Think of Quantum Theory, for example.

However, to understand the vast complexity of the DNA molecule, on it's own, not to mention the odds against even one protein molecule forming by chance let alone all the essential amino acids necessary for life forming and in enough quantity to form even a single celled organism, but to add to the odds that DNA would also have to form by chance as well..... in the words of Vizinni of "The Princess Bride" is "inconceivable".
I've seen those arguments and they are mathematically untenable. They assume that all the possible combinations of constituent atoms are equally likely to form--which is not the case--and so the calculated "odds" are way off the mark. In fact in biochemistry, as in all other chemistry, the compounds which actually form are those most likely to form under a given set of local conditions.
 
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SkyWriting

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The genetic sciences in our 21st Century has left no reasonable doubt as to the question of God's existence. God does indeed exist, and the evidence is overwhelming for those with an open mind.

It''s not true that evidence can identify complex events from the past.
 
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mark kennedy

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Too late for an ordinary layman's opinion, I'm afraid. I have an undergraduate degree in math and understand IT as well as anybody at that level not specialized in the field. I know that information can be created without intelligence, and not "by chance." Evolution by by random variation and selection is what is know as "Markov process" and is quite capable of generating the necessary complexity. The math is rock solid.

Wow really? It sounds to me like this time and chance statistical approach hardly negates creation:

Genetics: Markov chains have been used in population genetics in order to describe the change in gene frequencies in small populations affected by genetic drift, for example in diffusion equation method described by Motoo Kimura.[Watterson, G. (1996). "Motoo Kimura's Use of Diffusion Theory in Population Genetics". Theoretical Population Biology] (Markov chain, Wikipedia)
Your still left without a first cause and more importantly, the source of the information embedded in the DNA. Selection must have something to act on, it's as fundamental as it gets. This makes a cause for the development of life as a statistical variant but it's not a substitute for a designer, and certainly, is not going to pass for a Creator.

Just as well. Too many scientific discoveries defy "common sense." Think of Quantum Theory, for example.

Non-euclidean math is hardly an argument for or against, common sense. Your really going to have to do better then that to come up with a substantive argument. We are not talking sub-atomic or some kind of cosmology where euclidean math does not work. We are talking origins and that is a much bigger epistemology where theoretical physics does not apply, at least not directly.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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JacksBratt

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Too late for an ordinary layman's opinion, I'm afraid. I have an undergraduate degree in math and understand IT as well as anybody at that level not specialized in the field. I know that information can be created without intelligence, and not "by chance." Evolution by by random variation and selection is what is know as "Markov process" and is quite capable of generating the necessary complexity. The math is rock solid.

Because my faith does not need to be supported by bogus arguments, even if some people find them persuasive. In this case, too many people know they are bogus, and such things give Christianity a bad rep.

Of course.

Just as well. Too many scientific discoveries defy "common sense." Think of Quantum Theory, for example.

I've seen those arguments and they are mathematically untenable. They assume that all the possible combinations of constituent atoms are equally likely to form--which is not the case--and so the calculated "odds" are way off the mark. In fact in biochemistry, as in all other chemistry, the compounds which actually form are those most likely to form under a given set of local conditions.
Congrats on all your academic accomplishments.

However, you may believe that complex "code" can create itself, BUT can complex code also create the medium that it is stored on? OR the hardware that operates under it's information?

To say digital code can produce digital code is minute in comparison to computer code producing the medium it is stored in, DNA, and the hardware that operate it, physical living bodies.

I find that the more time spent in some university class, under the tutelage of some professor or mentor of the present academia, the more delusional the person becomes and the more arrogant they feel about their vast knowledge compared to other people and the simple facts of the Word of God.
 
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